192 replies to this topic

[Whitewolf95]

NextGame, on 22 July 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:

Could say the same to the whole lot of you who moaned and moaned to remove groups from the solo queue in the first place, bunch of hypocrites.



Lets also have queues based on gender, ethnic makeup, regional location, people who dont like mondays, and especially one for people who scapegoat coincidental factors for their own incompetent performances.

Sounds like google plus lol, turn MM into circles!

[EgoSlayer]

If there were an integrated VOIP option then groups of two wouldn't have to be on separate voice chat from the group of 10.

Just saying...

[Siegegun]

While I do not want groups back in solo que, I DO understand where the OP and a few others are coming from. I play both solo que and group que usually about 50/50. Recently I introduced a friend to MWO. Now I have been playing since a month or two after closed beta, and while I am not a good player, through experience and thousands of matches I can do OK and survive in the group que, it is not a problem. I don't even usually take ams and rarely die to lrms.

My friend however just stated playing. Even worse this is his first computer game (mouse+ keyboard). Tried grouping to play and have fun.... NOPE! He just gets insta killed over and over in the group que. He just can not survive there long enough to even get the game down. He drops solo, then its not an issue, tons of other people running about just like him with locked arms, standing still, charging superior mechs head on, peeps playing Mechbo, etc etc.

So basically I cannot group with my friend for a casual learning experience. Or even just to have some fun. He is getting better so eventually we will be able to group up. But I do wish I could group and play with him.

I do not know what solution, if any there is to this. In the mean time, I have just been sync dropping with him into the solo que. Yes it still works. You have to be in the same class mech (because now each class has its own different wait times), sometimes it does not work, and when it does half the time you are on opposing teams. But It is still fun, and better than not playing with my friend at all. Not sure how much ELO disparity would mess up the sync drop. Some of you with sons, or newbie friends could try this method if you find the group too... serious. Though again, you have to be in the same class mech.

[Mister Blastman]

El Bandito, on 22 July 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Ah, but there were Gauss Kitties, Splatcats, Streakcats, 4-6 PPC Stalkers, real LRMageddon, Raven 3L, group stomps, wtfbbq hit reg issues...many things that were broken in the old, that current newbies have the fortune of not experiencing.

I would rather experience ludicrous builds than be at the mercy of the invisible hand. One roll you get a pair of sixes... The next... SNAKE EYES, baby!

I gamble professionally for a living. It'd be nice to have the locus of control rest solely in my hands in the game. :-)

[Zypher]

As someone who plays in clan groups and solo when I don't have a lot of time, I can say that most people learning the game in 2 mans are going to hate the game. Group drops, are a lot of the time, far worse for stomps than solo queue, the smaller the groups the more often you are getting stomped.

This discourages players from playing with a friend, bad idea for a small player base. Unfortunately it's now a double edged sword, we don't want to further segregate the queues in 2 mans only because of the small player base, but we cannot encourage growth with casual gamer friends as the group drops can be downright brutal.

Right now I doubt anything can be done.

[Vassago Rain]

Let me tell you about teaching new people how to play your game. Not long ago, I had the honor of teaching pretty much everybody in my sexy guild how to play fighting games. We started with guilty gear - a game I've played since 1998.











When you're starting out, you are bad. That's just how it is. Skill is earned through experience, but to get experience, it is necessary to play a lot. As a new player, this means you'll lose a lot.

People just need to get over themselves. You're not gonna improve one bit if you keep blaming your lack of git guds on others, circumstances, or your opponents. You lose, you lose. So what? Think of what you did wrong, then challenge again.

It took how many thousands of games before we were good at robots? Yeah, lots of thousands. Even back then, the matchmaking was 'unfair,' and you'd have to carry weaker players against the most elite tryhards occasionally, but that's how you learn the most. Get your friends in a small group, and put them through the meatgrinder.

If you're not working for your experience, chances are, you're not gonna get much skill from it.

Several months later, once you've attained the guds, you've taken the throne among your friends, and think the old man's been defeated, he'll just just switch it up and give you what's really the next level.



ggclose, hucast.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 22 July 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[627]

interesting way this thread took.

Imho seperation of queues is a good thing. And the excuse of " bringing my friend into the game" is rather lame for trying to get back into solo queue.

So what to do? why not..just...you know... sharpen the new player experience instead? First and foremost build some tutorials. interactive, voiced tutorials that show you how to work that space robots.

And after that is done, done right, you could try to build a multiuser testing grounds but I doubt you'll get that beyond private matches.

and after all those things are done and you still get stomped, you could tweak the elo score with that new player elo thing paul mentioned some ages ago.

No need to mix the queues again, plenty of ways to keep that and improve NUE.

[Shadow Magnet]

I think nobody in this thread requested that groups should get back into the solo queue, or?

The solo queue is quite ok at it is now, it still needs some refinement but leave groups out.

But I am tired of people saying "just train harder, you will eventually become better and can take on those pro gamers". Sorry, why is it so hard to understand that there are people that only have 1-3 hours per week to play and will never never reach the level of those that can play 20-30+ hours per week. You want to scare those away? And at the same time complain about the long MM queue wait times because we don't have enough players?

Quote

[color=#959595]The problem is not queues, the problem is PGI increasingly catering to the incompetent to the detriment of the overall quality of the game, and a vocal minority of players needing to grow a pair and "git gud" or zip it. [/color]

Aha, so everyone below your "level" is incompetent, and of course, you personally represent the "majority" of players in MWO, you personally define how to measure the quality of this game and everyone that has not your opinion is a "minority". Hmm, yes, PGI should listen to you...

[Vassago Rain]

Shadow Magnet, on 22 July 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

I think nobody in this thread requested that groups should get back into the solo queue, or?

The solo queue is quite ok at it is now, it still needs some refinement but leave groups out.

But I am tired of people saying "just train harder, you will eventually become better and can take on those pro gamers". Sorry, why is it so hard to understand that there are people that only have 1-3 hours per week to play and will never never reach the level of those that can play 20-30+ hours per week. You want to scare those away? And at the same time complain about the long MM queue wait times because we don't have enough players?




Aha, so everyone below your "level" is incompetent, and of course, you personally represent the "majority" of players in MWO, you personally define how to measure the quality of this game and everyone that has not your opinion is a "minority". Hmm, yes, PGI should listen to you...

If you only have 1-3 hours a week, and you don't like PVP, why then are you playing a strictly PVP online game that takes a lot of time to get good at?

[Sprouticus]

Willard Phule, on 22 July 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

And the truth of this statement is what bothers me the most about the PUG queue. If there were actual separation by skill/experience in the Solo queue, this wouldn't be the case. You'd be able to join the PUG with people that have about the same level of experience using the tactics they use in the Group queue . Instead, we have the "may the team with the fewest noobs win."

New players should start out with ther lowest Elo Possible to mitigate this. Currently they start out with an 'average' Elo, so until they lose a bunch of matches their Elo is not accurate. that would be fine, except the rest of us encounter losses as a result.

I am pretty sure I am in the middle of the Elo groupings (a little higher for mediums, a little lower for assaults). And while I have not counted, I would guess I see about 1 trial mech per 2-3 games.

That is AWEOSME, it is great that we have new players. They just need to be in the underhive during their learning process.

[Vassago Rain]

Sprouticus, on 22 July 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

New players should start out with ther lowest Elo Possible to mitigate this. Currently they start out with an 'average' Elo, so until they lose a bunch of matches their Elo is not accurate. that would be fine, except the rest of us encounter losses as a result.

I am pretty sure I am in the middle of the Elo groupings (a little higher for mediums, a little lower for assaults). And while I have not counted, I would guess I see about 1 trial mech per 2-3 games.

That is AWEOSME, it is great that we have new players. They just need to be in the underhive during their learning process.

They will never put them in the underhive, for the simple reason that tier 1, 2, and 3 then have to devour each other.

[CeeKay Boques]

Vassago Rain, on 22 July 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

If you only have 1-3 hours a week, and you don't like PVP, why then are you playing a strictly PVP online game that takes a lot of time to get good at?

Cuz robots. Battletech, Mechwarrior, Droids, Gundams, 'Mechs.

Quote

Sorry, why is it so hard to understand that there are people that only have 1-3 hours per week to play and will never never reach the level of those that can play 20-30+ hours per week

Its not hard to understand. Everything that can be done to separate HC from Casuals is being done.

Private matches
Elo
Solo vs Group Queue

The more you win, the harder it gets. There's not really more to do. There you are, understanding:

" that people that only have 1-3 hours per week to play and will never never reach the level of those that can play 20-30+ hours per week"

Pray that you don't run into them, learn when you do.

[Willard Phule]

Technoviking, on 22 July 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

The more you win, the harder it gets. There's not really more to do. There you are, understanding:

Unfortunately, it doesn't get harder to play because you're being put up against better players....it gets harder to play because you're expected to carry more and more new players.

Which, ultimately, is what's killing the solo queue.

[Vassago Rain]

Willard Phule, on 22 July 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Unfortunately, it doesn't get harder to play because you're being put up against better players....it gets harder to play because you're expected to carry more and more new players.

Which, ultimately, is what's killing the solo queue.

Which, ultimately, is why most of us don't play outside the largest maximum groups. I haven't solo dropped since august last year.

[Lefty Lucy]

Tsig, on 22 July 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

You're going to run into a lot of opposition to this idea. I'm not terribly sure why, since we've already proven that the Premade Boogeyman wasn't to blame for PuG Stomps. A group of two on either side isn't going to make or break solo games.

When was this "proven?"

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 22 July 2014 - 02:58 AM, said:

lol no

Whats the matter Vass scared of the Underhive? A two man team to much to handle by elite Solo players?

[Sprouticus]

Vassago Rain, on 22 July 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Which, ultimately, is why most of us don't play outside the largest maximum groups. I haven't solo dropped since august last year.

Please dont speak for everyone VR. I solo drop all the time if I only have 20-30 min for a ocuple drops after putting my son to bed. I actually enjoy it most of the time. It is a different experience and I prefer groups (even small groups) for the social aspect, but solo drops are fine.

I seriously doubt the solo queue is DYING either.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

Whats the matter Vass scared of the Underhive? A two man team to much to handle by elite Solo players?

No, but if they let any kind of two manz in there, pro mega n00bslayers will use that method to access the underhive and farm themselves rich.

Sprouticus, on 22 July 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Please dont speak for everyone VR. I solo drop all the time if I only have 20-30 min for a ocuple drops after putting my son to bed. I actually enjoy it most of the time. It is a different experience and I prefer groups (even small groups) for the social aspect, but solo drops are fine.

I seriously doubt the solo queue is DYING either.

It's alive and well. I merely said that I don't play solo, and haven't for almost a year. The one thing you can control is what you bring, so if I can bring 9 players with me, that's a grand total of 10 less derps on my side. Not only do I have better odds of winning, I also get to play with my friends, and I have to fight non-derp teams (theoretically).

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 22 July 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

No, but if they let any kind of two manz in there, pro mega n00bslayers will use that method to access the underhive and farm themselves rich.

LOL you think they don't do that now as a Solo(farm that is)? For someone who supposedly isn't playing solo you sure worry a lot about what happens there. I play there quite a bit and Honestly a 2 man team would not be a big deal.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 July 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Hillslam]

I like the part where the group heroes crow about how awesome they are, but when I run across em in the solo queue (because you all enjoy "slumming" and you know it) they almost always get faceplanted

...and then its their team's fault.

Please keep posting - it adds to my satisfaction lol list.

If you can't handle yourself in a public brawl without Buddy Left and Buddy Right at your side you probably shouldn't be talking smack.

Edited by Hillslam, 22 July 2014 - 12:16 PM.