170 replies to this topic

[Keeshu]

We all know that the Mad Dog will probably get into Mechwarrior Online at some point. However, some of us worry about the Mad Dog being useless, which will make it a very rare sight on the field. I figured I'd remove some (not all) of the concerns that happens to most mechs, but raise up some concerns that are specific to the Mad Dog. Feel free to talk about the Mad Dog, especially if you're thinking of something that's not listed here.
I've made this thread because Mad Dog has my #1 favorite Battletech mech design, and has a stock loadout that I like a bunch.... I will try to edit this opening post whenever it's appropriate to.

I put a bunch of stuff in spoiler tags to make it so the thread doesn't seem so huge. Let me know if I went overboard.


Expect to see a lot of changes to this thread soon. I will update as we get more information about the Mad Dog.

Mad Dog in MWO
http://mwomercs.com/...iation-program/
The Mad Dog will be availble through the Ultimate Clan Reward program on September 23rd. It will be available for MC on December 16th, and available for C-bills on January 20th.
King Crab, Atlas S, Centurion AH, Gargoyle (Man-O-War) were revealed at the same time as the Mad Dog. Ice Ferret (Fenris), Mist Lynx (Koshi), Hellbringer (Loki) were later revealed in a sneak preview picture less than an hour later.

http://mwomercs.com/wavetwo?p=patcher
On 9/17/2014 we were able to take a look at the Prime, A, and B variants, along with their hardpoints. Which are basically the same as their original, but the Prime has the ability to mount AMS now.
Also, faction colors for the clans were shown for the first time, and it's on the Mad Dog.

Spoiler

Clan Wolf (Wolf Brown, Wolf Olive Green, Wolf Silver)

Clan Ghost Bear (Ghost Bear Blue, Ghost Bear White, Ghost Bear Slate)

Clan Jade Falcon (Jade Falcon Green, Jade Falcon Lime, Jade Falcon Yellow)

Clan Smoke Jaguar (Smoke Jaguar Grey, Smoke Jaguar Black, Smoke Jaguar Red)

9/20/2014 First footage of the Mad Dog in action. Starts with the Mad Dog Prime using the Clan Invasion skin beating up 2 C-bill Mad Dogs at the start of the footage. Then it has a c-bill version Mad Dog A beating up a Nova (with a Jenner running by). We also get to see the default armor for the Mad Dog.
http://mwomercs.com/...023-dev-vlog-8/
(Would post the video but the forums delete the video everytime I edit this topic)

9/24/2014 Bonus Mad Dog (and Dire Wolf for C-bills), along with the map "The Mining Collective" are added to the game. A few chat features were added/changed as well.
http://mwomercs.com/...01-23-sep-2014/


Background (for those who are new to Mechwarrior games I guess):
The Mad Dog's Inner Sphere name is the "Vulture".
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/TRO:_3050
The Mad Dog is one of the 16 original Clan Mechs released with the Technical Readout 3050. The Mad Dog has been in almost all mechwarrior games.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mad_dog
Clan Smoke Jaguar based the Mad Dog off a Clan Coyote mech called "Lupus", and is supposed to be a support mech. Using LRMs to weaken enemies, then using it's lasers to finish off the enemy. The Mad Dog uses some of the same moulds as the Timber Wolf (the legs look exactly the same). The name "Mad Dog" was a slur to Clan Wolf and the Timber Wolf.
http://www.sarna.net...t_Bear#Military
http://mwomercs.com/...cussion-thread/
Out of all the clans, the Clan Ghost Bear loves Mad Dogs the most. Assuming Community Warfare gives faction bonuses to specific mechs, the bonuses may be given to either one, both, or no one.


Related Mechs:

Spoiler

60 ton Lupus: A Clan Coyote mech that the Mad Dog is based off of.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lupus
http://bte.battletec...Lupus%20%20Base

75 ton Timber Wolf: The Mad Dog uses some of the same moulds as the Timber Wolf. The Prime loadouts for Mad Dog and Timber Wolf are also very similar.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Timber_Wolf
http://bte.battletec...lf%29%20%20Base
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=163&l=stock

70 ton Avatar Omnimech: Draconis Combine's attempt at recreating the Mad Dog. They did sell some to the Lyran Alliance and Comstar as well.
http://www.sarna.net..._%28OmniMech%29
http://bte.battletec...AV1-O%20%20Base
60 ton Vulture MK III: Another version of the Mad Dog produced in Alshain Weapons (a Draconis Combine company)
http://www.sarna.net.../Vulture_Mk_III
http://bte.battletec...20III%20%20Base

60 ton Mad Dog IV: Clan Sea Fox's version of the Mad Dog which was sold to every nation and clan.
http://www.sarna.net...i/Vulture_Mk_IV
http://bte.battletec...%20IV%20%20Base

Design:
(For those who want a word description)
The Mad Dog is a "chicken walker" that has very narrow slanted 45-75 degree torsos that makes it look like it's leaning back. The center torso juts out very far in front of the smaller side torsos, similarly to MWO's version of the dragon. The side torsos are just big enough to fit all the Missile Tubes for it's LRM 20s. The cockpit is literally placed on top of the center torso, which allows for it to peek over hills easily (but maybe more likely to eat LRMs or getting headshotted from above). It has 2 very short arms that go out and are just above the legs that connect to the energy/ballistic weapons it's using.
This is where my worries start to begin. As with anything that stays around for a long time, there will be some re-designs here and there. However they are usually the same design as the Timber Wolf's legs in whatever game they are in (sometimes even the same size).
Pictures of the different Mad Dog designs:

Spoiler

http://www.sarna.net.../4e/Mad_Dog.jpg
CCG

http://www.sarna.net...CCG_Limited.jpg
Mechwarrior 2

http://cdn.wikimg.ne...r_2_Mad_Dog.jpg
Mechwarrior 4

http://mohia.files.w...jpg?w=261&h=300
Mech Commander (thanks Asheron Realaidain for sharing the image)

http://lparchive.org.../2-image001.gif
Mech Assault

http://img1.wikia.no...d/d7/Maddog.gif
Mechwarrior: Living Legends

http://wiki.mechlivi...2px-Vulture.jpg

Vulture MK III and Mad Dog MK IV Designs (in case you were curious)

Spoiler

Vulture MK III

http://www.sarna.net...ture_Mk_III.jpg
Mad Dog MK IV

http://www.sarna.net...ture_Mk._IV.png

Most of the designs are rather similar. However, Mechwarrior 4's design is much different from the others. Mechwarrior 4's design does have some popularity behind it because Mechwarrior 4 was popular, and it had an intro scene that glorified the Vulture Pilot which helps make the mech memorable. He was the commander, and took off a Nova Cat's arm, and lasted longer than the others despite being shot by 4 of them at the same time.

MWO's redesign comparison with the classic Mad Dog (concept revealed 9/15/2014)

Spoiler

This is the first picture of the Mad Dog that was made available to us.

Overall - Like most MWO redesigns, a lot of edges have a very small angle added to them so it looks a bit more rounded. Some things have been boxified on this version of the Mad Dog as well.

Cockpit - Classic is very basic with 3 flat windows. The MWO version rounds out the cockpit quite a bit to have a more cylindrical appearance, and adds a another set of metal bars (the extra metal bars is a common thing on a lot of MWO re-designs). A tiny bit less metal behind the cockpit.

Center Torso - The center torso seems slightly shorter (Timber Wolf had the same treatment). There is now a very distinctive line on the top of tip of the front of the center torso. The "nipple" bumps on the front have had the "nipples" removed from them (thank goodness!). The rims around these bumps is much more clear now as well. The bump behind this one has been turned into a triangle (probably to keep with the MWOificated look). The three little mini-boxes on the sides of the center torso now have a diagonal line on them.

Side torsos - Missile tubes are 4 x 5 (1 row is hard to see with the first pictures because of the tiny flap covering the sides of the missile tubes). The top part does not have tubes and has been replaced with a different texture to avoid looking blank/strange while still having that part still there. The missile tube rows are not lined up with each other, similar to Mechwarrior 4's Vulture's missile tubes. There are various minor texture differences on the side of the side torso, so many to the point where it is completely different.

Arms - They longer cylindrical and are now very boxy. The rear bottom part of the arms is a bit larger now due to the additional of flaps. The lasers diagonal, instead of being horizontally next to each other (there's a lot of old depictions of Mad Dog with both the diagonal and horizontal approach. The Sarna picture looks horizontal but the guns are so close to each other that this should not make much of a difference in game).

Legs: We don't see much yet, but it seems that the Mad Dog does indeed steal the MWO Timber Wolf's legs, just like they do in the Battletech lore. However, there is one very slight difference, the little knee bump thing on the front of the shin that was originally on the Timber Wolf has been removed (personally I think this makes the legs look nice). However, it does not steal the part attaching the legs to the center torso, but it steals it from other clan mechs like the the Nova and Kit Fox.

Classic Visuals vs MW4 Visuals: (in no particular order):

Spoiler

#1. The MW4 Vulture has Chin-strapped lasers which act like arms.
#2. The MW4 Vulture now boxes in the guns on the arms. Which makes them more bulky+boxy, and isn't just an exposed gun for an arm. This may have been done to make it look more like the Timber Wolf, and/or due to laziness by copy + pasting the Timber Wolf Arms onto the Vulture.
#3. The MW4 Vulture's arms are shorter than the classic.
#4. The MW4 Vulture's upper arms are horizontal instead of being diagonal.
#5. The MW4 Vulture's Side Torsos have holes for 4x8, the Classic has 3x7 holes.
#6. The MW4 Vulture adds a vertically flat section between the Missile tubes and the part that goes diagonally backwards.
#7. The MW4 Vulture rounds out the bumps on the front of the nose so it doesn't look like there's nipples on it's face. (While I prefer classic over MW4 usually, I actually like that they did this). And I just want to mention that I grew up with MW2, which does not have the huge bumps on the side of the nose, and in MW4 it just blends in with the mech so I didn't notice it there (but now I do now I know it's there).
#8. The MW4 Vulture adds another angle on it's "nose". Which makes it a little more bulky, and more like a nose.
#9. Overall the legs are the same, but the "shin pads" are more boxy +Bulky in Mechwarrior 4, while the classic is all rounded and much thinner.
#10. Overall the MW4 Vulture is wider than the Classic Mad Dog in all sections. With the arms being debatable due to MW4 showing the Large + medium laser holes vertically (even though the mediums were moved to the CT) whereas the classic has them horizontally.
Due to all these changes, and thinking the Vulture was a different mech when I first played Mechwarrior 4, I always call the classic design "Mad Dog" and the Mechwarrior 4 design "Vulture".
#11. MW4 Vulture replaces the vents and random boxes on the side of the torso with the faction logo for the faction you are playing as.

Will they will do the classic design, Mechwarrior 4 Design, make a hybrid, or just do a new take on the Mad Dog?

Chin Turret

Spoiler

In Mechwarrior 4 the Vulture's chin turrets are able to move around a little as if they were mini-arms. Some people have said that the Vulture and Mad Dog Prime would be the same because of this, but this is not true.
#1. Due to being in the CT, you cannot have ER PPC and/or Large Pulse in them unless you ignore one of the energy hardpoints. (You can still do 4 ER Large Laser though due to them being 1 slot)
#2. You do not have to worry about losing the arms as much because these hardpoints are in the CT instead of the arms.

Chin turrets may inject some individuality into the Mad Dog. Do you think they should not add a chin turret? Leave it to an Alt. Config. or Hero mech? Or something else? If they did get in, do you think they should have negative/postive quirks?


(Thanks to mercenarie for providing the gif)

Torso Twist

Spoiler

The Mechwarrior 4 Vulture had a 360 torso twist, so you could just keep twisting your torso forever. However, the Vulture had one of the slowest torso twists. To put this into perspective, an Atlas (and Timber Wolf) takes about 4 seconds to look from all the way right, to all the way left. the Vulture takes about 5 seconds to do this (and the Osiris takes about 3 seconds if you're curious).
Do you think the Mad Dog should have a normal torso twist? An extended torso twist like the Locust, Adder, Kit Fox, Catapult, Hunchback, Stormcrow, Wolverine? Or an infinite torso twist like it's MW4 version? Should it have normal twisting speed, or a slowed twisting speed?
Personally I think comparing infinite torso twist combined with a negative torso twist speed quirk to a normal/extended torso twist without a negative torso twist speed is like comparing apples to oranges.

Other concerns:
The Mad Dog may get beefed up which may ruin it's design.
The Mad Dog is going with the classic design so it will be just fine.

The hitboxes we get will effect it's survivability a lot. Whether it'll be like the oldschool Dragon which made the Dragon like a CT damage magnet, or more like the Stalker with the center torso only being the front part of the center bulge. (I will provide images for this later when I get done reorganizing my 100 or something MWO bookmarks)

Where are the missile tubes going to be located when you have more than 1 LRM 20? On the top+Bottom of the side torsos in a similar fashion to the catapult? Or will the Mad Dog be likely too bulky so it can have 50 missile tubes on each side torso? LRM 20 + 2 LRM 15 per torso is the largest you can have if we get the A variant.

Other notes:
Will LRMs continue to shoot out forward, or will they be shot diagonally upwards to reflect the slant and to give the Mad Dog some uniqueness? It's neither a buff or a nerf because it changes up a few minor things. Also, I'm not talking about SRMs here though, since those would be required to shoot forward to actually work.



Hardpoints:

Spoiler

Announced Variants:
Mad Dog Prime: 2 E RA, 1 M RT, 1 M 1 AMS LT, 2 E LA
Mad Dog A: 1E RA, 3M RT, 3M LT, 1B LA
Mad Dog B: 3E RA, 2M RT, 1M LT, 2E LA

They decided to allow the Prime Mad Dog to have the ability to carry AMS. We do not know the quirks for each variant yet, assuming there are any for the Mad Dog .

Omnipod Quirks:
Prime Left Torso (1M 1AMS): -5% Missile Cooldown
Prime Right Torso (1M): -5% Missile Cooldown, 5% Torso Turn Rate (Yaw)
A Left Arm (1B): +5% Arm Movement Rate (Yaw and Pitch)
A Right Arm (1E): +5% Arm Movement Rate (Yaw and Pitch)
B Left Torso (1M): -5% Missile Cooldown, 5% Torso Turn Rate (Yaw)
B Right Torso (2M): +5% Torso Turn Rate (Yaw)
B Right Arm (3E): +5% Energy Weapon Cooldown

Other possible (but extremely unlikely) variants.

Spoiler

Mad Dog C: 1B RA, 1B LA
Vulture MK II: 1 E RA, 1M RT, 2E CT, 1M LT, 1E LA

The problem with the Mad Dog C variant is that it's already underarmored, and 4 tons of ammo is probably not enough to last in long matches. We may get a C Right Arm Omnipod someday, but having the variant itself will probably never happen.

Vulture MK II is unlikely as it is too much like the Prime, and with it being the only variant with CT weapons would make it outclass the others unless there were some negative quirks for it.

Every other variant is out of our timeline and they use weapons we do not have access to right now, thus making them impossible to include (unless some major changes happen to MWO). However, in the highly unlikely event we were to use omnipods that allow for the same categories, we could use the G's 3E RA, F's 2E RT and 2E LT, and H's 3E LA.

However, We don't know what Hero Mechs for clan mechs are going to be like just yet. We may get a Vulture MK II, or maybe a combination of all the future variants. Whatever the case, I personally assume that we will not be able to swap hero omnipods with normal omnipods.

Mad Dog vs Timber Wolf

Spoiler

A main concern for many people is that the Timber Wolf outclasses the Mad Dog in every way. While this is mostly true, there are enough unique features to the Mad Dog that would make people want to use the Mad Dog over the Timber Wolf.

Mad Dog on Battletech Engineer
http://bte.battletec...og%29%20%20Base
Timber Wolf on Battletech Engineer
http://bte.battletec...lf%29%20%20Base
Here's a link to the Battletech Engineer search engine in case you want to look at specific variants or something else
http://bte.battletec...archEngine.aspx
- Same Weight class (heavy). Mad Dog 60 tons, Timber Wolf 75 tons
- They run at the same speed
- Timber Wolf has Endo Steel, Mad Dog does not
- Timber Wolf can use Jumpjets, the Mad Dog cannot
- Timber Wolf has 3.5 more tons of armor by default
- Mad Dog has .5 more customizable weapon tonnage, but Timber Wolf has 3 more Hardwired Heat sinks (Mad Dog has 2, Timber Wolf has 5). However, due to Timber Wolf having more armor, it can just remove some to have more even more weapon tonnage than the Mad Dog. Also, Mad Dog is not fully armored by default, so 2.5 tons will be required to max out the Mad Dog's armor.

- The Mad Dog has to make use of the fact that it can have 5 or 6 missle hard points because of the Alt. config. A if it wants to do any build that Timber Wolf cannot.
- The Timber Wolf has many more options with hardpoints that the Mad Dog cannot do.
Prime: 1E1M LT, 1B CT, 1B 1M RT.
C: AMS + 1M LT, 1E CT.
S: 1B 2M LT, 1B 1E 2M RT

- Mad Dog's high cockpit allows it to peek over hills mech easier than the Timber Wolf, similarly to a Blackjack.
- The Mad Dog's arms are slightly higher than the Timber Wolf's arms.
- Mad Dog's hit boxes have a very good chance of being much better than the Timber Wolf's hitboxes, especially since we now know that the Mad Dog is using the classic design instead of the Mechwarrior 4 design. We also do not know the size of the Mad Dog yet, it maybe similar size, or it could be smaller. Even if the legs almost look the same, they can be shrunk down a little.



LRM Boating Comparison:
The Mad Dog is the superior LRM boat because of the A variant (unless we get some nasty A variant LRM nerfs).
Timber Wolf max: 70 missiles (35 per torso). 2 LRM 20, 2 LRM 15. 10.5 tons for weapons+ammo.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...613571ff3279bf3
Timber Wolf tonnage efficient: 60 missiles (30 per torso). 4 LRM 15 (13.5 tons for weapons+ammo)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...66103ac16a8fd5c

Mad Dog max: 100 missiles (50 per torso). 2 LRM 20, 2 LRM 15. 4 tons for ammo
Mad Dog tonnage efficient: 90 missiles (45 per torso). 6 LRM 15. 7 tons for ammo and weapons
4 LRM 20s only gives you one more ton than 6 LRM 15s.

Timber Wolf with Artemis max: 60 missiles (30 per torso). 4 LRM 15s. 9.5 tons for ammo and weapons
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0f6db94726b20d3
Timber Wolf with Artemis tonnage efficient: 40 missiles (20 per torso). 4 LRM 10s. 13.5 tons for ammo and weapons
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4faa82654eb90a2

Mad Dog with Artemis max: 80 missiles (40 per torso). 4 LRM 15s, 2 LRM 10s. 3 tons of ammo
Mad Dog with Artemis tonnage efficient: 60 missiles (30 per torso). 6 LRM 10s, 7 tons for ammo and weapons



Notable Unique Mad Dog Builds:
Dual AC/20 (if we get the C's right arm omnipod): The Timber Wolf cannot mount AC/20s in the side torsos. It can only mount a single AC/20 in the C's right arm. Though, this build only allows for 4 tons of ammo.
Full on 90 missile LRM boat - Maybe drop 2 tons for ER mediums so you can distract/finish off later in the fight. 7 tons for small weapons or ammo with default armor
LRM boat with teeth - 4 LRM 15, 2 SSRM 4 - 10 tons for small weapons (like medium/small lasers) or ammo
Balanced: 2 LRM 20(or 15), 4 SRM 6, 4 ER Medium lasers. 8 tons for ammo
Anti-light: 6 SSRM 6. 10 tons for small weapons (like medium/small lasers) or ammo

These next two are very experimental. Depending on how many heatsinks or ammo you put in, you are meant for poking and having only a couple tons of ammo to make things want to stay away, or to be a close range nuking champ that can poke every now and then when stuff is out of range.
ER PPC Poker - 2 ER PPC, 6 SRM 6. 7 tons for heatsinks and ammo
Anti-light Large Laser poker - 2 ER Large Laser, 6 SSRM6. Only 2 tons for ammo


Personally, if Mad Dog looks nice in MWO, I will pilot it more than anything else even if it's underpowered compared to the Timber Wolf. Afterall, I don't think Mad Dog will be a bad mech when it gets in anyways. It can even run the "meta" of 2 ER PPC 1 Gauss like the Timber Wolf can if you are someone who uses meta.

KuroNyra, on 23 July 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

The Mad Dog has something the Timber Wolf doesn't.

HE'S A FREAKING MAD DOG! THAT ALONE MAKES IT BETTER!

Mad Dog vs Catapult

Spoiler

Some people have been worried about the Catapult being outclassed by the Mad Dog when the Mad Dog is added. So here's a comparison and why you really shouldn't worry about it. Also, MWO's version of the Catapult is my favorite MWO Inner Sphere design (and I've had many fond memories of using the catapult), and Mad Dog is my favorite Battletech design, so I guess I should have made this comparison sooner.

Catapult C1 (because there is no base)
http://bte.battletec...apult%20CPLT-C1
Mad Dog (in case you didn't feel like scrolling back up)
http://bte.battletec...og%29%20%20Base

- Same weight class (heavy). Mad Dog 60 tons, Catapult 65 tons
- Mad Dog runs at 81 before speed tweak, or 89.1 after speed tweak. With the max engine (315) the Catapult can run at 78.5 before speed tweak, or 86.4 after speed tweak. However, the Catapult can also reduce it's speed to get more weight. The Mad Dog does not have to worry about losing a single side torso like the Catapult does if the Catapult takes an XL engine.
- The Catapult can use Endo and/or Ferro Fibrus. The Mad Dog can only have Ferro Fibrus.
- The Catapult can use Jumpjets, the Mad Dog cannot.
- The Catapult and Mad Dog have the same default armor. However, due to the Catapult being heavier, it can equip more armor than the Mad Dog.
- The Mad Dog has 28.5 customizable weapon tonnage (and 2 hardwired heat sinks) with default armor. With an XL 315 the Catapult has 33.5 customizable weapon tonnage. 29.5 with Jumpjets. 26.3 with Jumpjets and max armor.

- Due to the clan weapons weighing much less, and the Mad Dog having similar Hard Points, the Mad Dog can do any build that the Catapult can do.
- The Catapult is better at efficient burst damage due to how Inner Sphere weapons behave.
- The Catapult has missile hardpoints in the arms, with Energy hardpoints in the torsos. The Mad Dog is the other way around.


Design Differences:
- The Legs will probably be the same. Since the Catapult almost has the same legs as the Timber Wolf, and Mad Dog is supposed to have it's legs based off the Timber Wolf.
- The Mad Dog's torsos are likely to be much taller but thinner than the Catapult's torsos.
- They both have large center torsos with small side torsos. However, we need to know the Mad Dog's hitboxes are like to know where they are better or not.
- The Mad Dog's cockpit is on top so it is better for hill humping so it does not need to expose the whole mech. The Catapult must expose it's arms and top of the torsos if it wants to peek over hills. However, Jumpjets make it so this is not as much of a problem.
- The Catapult has big boxes for arms, while the Mad Dog has long but thin arms. Making it so the Mad Dog is slightly better at using it's arms to shield it's CT than the Catapult (if the sides of that middle part is not like Stalker hitboxes that is). The Catapult does a better job at protecting it's side torsos with it's arms.


My thoughts:
If you want more armor, Jumpjets and more efficient LRMs, go Catapult.
If you don't care about how efficient the LRMs are and want as many missiles as possible, you don't care about Jumpjets, and want better hard points, then go with the Mad Dog.

I haven't played the Catapult since Closed beta (been maxing out other mechs), but here's some example builds.
A1 LRM boat + Splatcat hybrid - 2 LRMs, 4 SRMs (Personally, one of my favorite builds in the game [It's effectiveness would be debatable though])
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c6a8c7a8295707
A1 Splatcat - 6SRMs (watch out for heatscale/ghost heat. My favorite memories of Closed Beta were from this build)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5e60b2a1cd35a99
C1 LRM boat that has 3 medium lasers and a TAG
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0ad5cc0d77bee06
C4 LRM boat that TAG and NARCs for itself
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0bf03f462ceda2b

General Mad Dog Builds (WIP, There's a lot of builds you can do with the Mad Dog, and I will look at other people's builds as well)

Spoiler

(I will add more notable Mad Dog builds at they become notable)
Splat Dog: 6 SRM 6 (with or without artemis), 4/5 Medium Lasers
The Splat Dog is one of the more fearsome close range focused builds in the game. Combining decent armor, speed, and one massive alpha. If you come up against one, avoid getting ambushed and letting him get away to cooldown, as this build runs very VERY hot.
Example Builds:
"Balanced" build: 5 Medium Lasers with 16 Heat Sinks, 6 SRM 6 with 8 tons of ammo.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...50b9c78685edfe3

Jumpjetless Catapult A1 with Lasers: 6 LRM 5 with 10 tons ammo, 5 Medium lasers with 16 heat sinks and BAP
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e8a3ff2f77d6137

All range fighter: 2 LONG range missiles 15s with 6 tons of ammo, 5 MEDIUM lasers with 12 heat sinks, 4 SHORT range missile 4s with 3 tons ammo
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44f376e7fa5e180

Is there anything I missed? Is there anything I should add? Do I have some really terrible grammar somewhere that makes it difficult to read it? Am I displaying my opinions too much? Let me know and I'll edit the thread. I also look forward to hearing your opinions on the Mad Dog, whether they are postive or negative.

Edited by Keeshu, 24 September 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Caesar Lop]

If I recall correctly, the Mad Dog-A had its LB-5X in the left arm and ER-PPC in the right, so it should look like this:

Mad Dog A: 1E RA, 3M RT, 3M LT, 1B LA

And speaking of said Configuration, I can definitely see it as being a rather frightening counterpart to many an A1 Catapult with its total of six Missile Hardpoints. The max amount of missiles a Mad Dog can carry, as you listed, had me going O.O for a full five seconds as it'd probably take more than one Kit Fox w/Configuration C RA to AMS enough of those LRMs to dampen the effect of that big a LRM shower. Even in its stock configuration, an ER-PPC + Autocannon combination is not something to take lightly and if anything, is something else the Mad Dog-A has going for it (coupled with a crapload of SRMs of course). o.o

In terms of the design, I can't see them using the MW4 design just yet. From what I'm aware of (Read: Sarna BT Wiki), the Mad Dogs we see in the MW4 Trilogy were produced by the Ghost Bears following their move to the Inner Sphere. As such, the facilities they were produced on were originally meant for Spheroid designs, which may have been a major factor as to why MW4 Mad Dogs look so different from their Homeworld-manufactured counterparts. o.o

That said, nothing on Sarna tells us why the chin-mounted turret and what difference it makes on the various Mad Dog Configurations of the Spheroid-manufactured models. o.o

[Keeshu]

http://bte.battletec...ad%20Dog%29%20A

Ah, so it is in the left arm. No one corrected me in any other thread where I said that. Probably because it's going to be in 1 arm no matter what, and even then the C arms allows you to pick which side you want.


I'll admit, when I heard clans were coming into MWO, and I looked at Mad Dog's A variant I was so friggin happy because of all the missle hardpoints that will be available. I loved running 6 SRM 6s on my Catapult A1. However, I haven't run my Splatapult since people were using them in closed beta. I'll have to take it out for a test drive to see if 6 SRMs are still very deadly (seems to be so with a quick mess around in testing grounds). Though just shooting in the test grounds on River City, Alphaing the 6 SRMs brings the heat up perfectly to 50% on my catapult. Smurfy says that 6 SRM 6 will produce 29.40 heat, and 6 LRM 15s will generate 51.42 heat. So you could get away with doing that, but you'll be waiting a long time due to lack of heat sinks. Remember that the missles are streamed though, and that people are most likely to shoot only 2 at a time so they can avoid ghost heat.
Mad Dog is supposed to be a rather glass cannony, so I like that it can be scary with it's missles.

Makes me feel good when you say that they probably won't use the MW4 design. Though I still worry that they might.

Edited by Keeshu, 23 July 2014 - 05:48 AM.

[SixstringSamurai]

I actually built one for giggles on a Timber Wolf it ran super hot but at 91 damage it wasn't something to laugh at. Even turning the LPL and MPL to LL and ML it still has over 80 damage and remains my PRIME's loadout. With LRMs receiving the 0-180 damage buff it's nothing if not deadly.

The Mad Dog is my all time favorite. Even as a little kid, my dad would take me to the Virtual World in Walnut Creek, Ca. That was the mech I always picked, even knowing nothing about it.

Edited by SixStringSamurai, 23 July 2014 - 05:58 AM.

[KuroNyra]

SixStringSamurai, on 23 July 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

I actually built one for giggles on a Timber Wolf it ran super hot but at 91 damage it wasn't something to laugh at. Even turning the LPL and MPL to LL and ML it still has over 80 damage and remains my PRIME's loadout. With LRMs receiving the 0-180 damage buff it's nothing if not deadly.

The Mad Dog is my all time favorite. Even as a little kid, my dad would take me to the Virtual World in Walnut Creek, Ca. That was the mech I always picked, even knowing nothing about it.

I picked up some information about what is it/was.

Damn your one ugly son of a [censured insult for about 3 others wall of text]

Damn! Why can't we have that in Europe! :'(




to the OP: you have forget something VERY important about the Mad Dog against the Timber Wolf.


The Mad Dog have something the Timber Wolf don't.

HE'S A FREAKING MAD DOG! THAT ALONE MAKE IT BETTER!

Edited by KuroNyra, 23 July 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[Keeshu]

KuroNyra, on 23 July 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

I picked up some information about what is it/was.

Damn your one ugly son of a [censured insult for about 3 others wall of text]

Damn! Why can't we have that in Europe! :'(




to the OP: you have forget something VERY important about the Mad Dog against the Timber Wolf.


The Mad Dog have something the Timber Wolf don't.

HE'S A FREAKING MAD DOG! THAT ALONE MAKE IT BETTER!

That pretty much goes without saying. Afterall, it is my #1 favorite Battletech design, and it has a really nice loadout by default.
I have now quoted you in the OP.

Edited by Keeshu, 23 July 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Boyka]

Hope hitboxes will be different compared to the Dragon or it will be pretty unusable.. (except for the lrmboat configuration)

[Keeshu]

Boyka, on 23 July 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

Hope hitboxes will be different compared to the Dragon or it will be pretty unusable.. (except for the lrmboat configuration)

Before or after hitbox changes?
With the old hitbox changes that just gave me an excuse to use XL engine. I haven't piloted one after they changed the hitboxes and I don't know where to go to see where the hit boxes are.

Hopefully the sides of the center torso will count as the side torsos. Sort of like the Stalker's side torsos.

I'll still use the Mad Dog even if it's CT becomes a magnet for damage, but it'll be nice if the hitboxes are good.

Edited by Keeshu, 23 July 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Strum Wealh, on 21 July 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

More likely (IMO), the MWO Mad Cat's legs would remain as-is & appear the same way on the MWO Vulture, with the upper body of the Vulture being beefed-up to compensate - giving the MWO Vulture an appearance closer to some of the CCG images or the Dark Age rendition (minus the chin turret, of course) or the Vulture MK.III (minus the chin-mounts) or even the Mad Dog Mk.IV (again, minus the chin-mounts) than to the super-skinny classic TRO design.

Strum Wealh, on 21 July 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

The same can be said - and likely has been said - about every other 'Mech in the game.
Much like how every 'Mech - even including the likes of the Dragon Slayer and the Shadow Hawk - has been vehemently declared "DOA". And we see how that went...

So, what does the Vulture bring to the table?

• XL 300 Engine (base top speed of 81.0 kph, tweaked top speed of 89.1 kph)
  
• Standard Internal Structure
  
• Ferro-Fibrous Armor (starts at 8.50 tons; 1 crit in HD, 2 crits in LT, 2 crits in RT, 1 crit in LA, 1 crit in RA)
  
• 12 fixed DHS (all in Engine)
  
• Starts with 28 tons (46.7% of the maximum weight) for pod space & 40 free critical spaces (including all 4 leg slots & both CT slots)

Maxing out the armor still leaves 26 tons (43.3% of the maximum weight) free for weapons & equipment

The Vulture Prime natively provides the following:

• LA: x2 Energy
  
• LT: x1 Missile
  
• CT: n/a
  
• RT: x1 Missile
  
• RA: x2 Energy

The Vulture A natively provides the following:

• LA: x1 Ballistic
  
• LT: x3 Missile
  
• CT: n/a
  
• RT: x3 Missile
  
• RA: x1 Energy

The Vulture B natively provides the following:

• LA: x2 Energy
  
• LT: x1 Missile
  
• CT: n/a
  
• RT: x2 Missile
  
• RA: x3 Energy

The Vulture C natively provides the following:

• LA: x1 Ballistic
  
• LT: n/a
  
• CT: n/a
  
• RT: n/a
  
• RA: x1 Ballistic

The next variant, the Vulture D, is not available until 3054.

None of the variants natively carries any of AMS, ECM, or Jump Jets.

Also, I double-checked each of the original TRO 3050 (pgs. 28-29), TRO 3050R (pgs. 26-27), and TRO 3050U (pgs. 130-131) - all three indicate that the Vulture C's Gauss Rifles are mounted in the arms, not in the side-torsos as depicted in the imagery on page 06 of Combat Operations.

As far as its likely MWO appearance goes, I foresee the upper body reusing the CT + Head sections from the MWO Dragon & the legs from the MWO Mad Cat, with add-on side-torso sections similar to those of the Vulture Mk.III pictured in my previous post (the third image). The upper arms would probably be taken from the MWO Orion, with the lower arms being taken from the MWO Ryoken (with the hands removed, of course).

Thoughts?

[Valkyrie Vewas]

One of the most important things they need to remember when adding this mech is and its big draw is. For its tonnage no other mech has more tonnage for weapons. Only the loki beats it and it is 5 tons hvy'er. The maddog has the same or more weapon tonnage then a madcat which is 15 tons hvy'er. They need to give this mech High tonnage for weapons or sinks.

Pros of Maddog should be
*High open tonnage for weapons (For 60 tons it brings a tons of weapon tonnage)
*High weapon slot count (Some of its configs have for what could make for a ton of slots)
*Great profile (thin CT, and high sitting Cockpit with fairly high sitting arms)

The Weakness should be
*Low Armor for being a hvy (Profile helps CT and arms for being small but side missle pods can be hit if aimed)
*High Heat (Have to add sinks to be really effective)
*High Missle hardpoints (this mech is a support mech at heart while it does have a nice balance of weapons if you dont like SRMs or LRMs this might not be the mech for you)

Or U could give one ECM which would make for a great overall support mech Lots of missiles and lasers and ecm with the above weaknesses. Yes no classic Btech maddog had ecm but MW4 did so why not?

Also My fav mech please put in game and take my money

Edited by Valkyrie Vewas, 23 July 2014 - 09:39 AM.

[Boyka]

Keeshu, on 23 July 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Before or after hitbox changes?
With the old hitbox changes that just gave me an excuse to use XL engine. I haven't piloted one after they changed the hitboxes and I don't know where to go to see where the hit boxes are.

Hopefully the sides of the center torso will count as the side torsos. Sort of like the Stalker's side torsos.

I'll still use the Mad Dog even if it's CT becomes a magnet for damage, but it'll be nice if the hitboxes are good.

I bought one time ago, actually I don't remember if was before or after hitbox changes.. by the way I sold it after unlocking basic efficiencies.. it was very frustrating: every time cored even with torso twist. I'll try the champion when it will come back in trial mechs.

However every Dragon I met (less and less over time..) continue to die for CT.

That's a pity cause the Dragon is one of the best design in game.

[Keeshu]

@ Strum Wealh
Why is your entire post in the quote boxes? Did you quote yourself from another thread? Or do you just like the boxes?
Warning: This post contains opinions.

I'm expecting the Mad Dog to copy pasta the legs of the Timber Wolf, I'm just hoping it'll be shrunk down so the Mad Dog won't be taller equal to or taller than the Timber Wolf.

As for the mech parts being used from the other mechs you mentioned. While the Dragon is my 2nd favorite IS design in game right now (Catapult being #1), it makes me shudder at the thought of them using the Dragon's CT. So wide, so horizontal, anything else is just minor complaints. However, the MWO Dragon's side torsos are very very similar to the Mad Dog's side torsos in shape. As for the Vulture III's side torso, while I can see them using it and it makes me shudder, it's not too bad I guess. Orion's upper arms is fine, just make it slightly thinner (doesn't have to be as thin as the Original mad Dog, but the Mad Dog). Stormcrow's arms are just too vastly different from the Mad Dog (though probably the closest thing to Mad Dog arms off the top of my head), probably not a good idea.

Though personally, aside from Timber Wolf legs, I'd prefer that they don't re-use a bunch of parts from the other mechs. Also, I prefer the clans to be more thin. Keep the big + bulky theme to the Inner Sphere.

Valkyrie Vewas, on 23 July 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

One of the most important things they need to remember when adding this mech is and its big draw is. For its tonnage no other mech has more tonnage for weapons. Only the loki beats it and it is 5 tons hvy'er. The maddog has the same or more weapon tonnage then a madcat which is 15 tons hvy'er. They need to give this mech High tonnage for weapons or sinks.

Pros of Maddog should be
*High open tonnage for weapons (For 60 tons it brings a tons of weapon tonnage)
*High weapon slot count (Some of its configs have for what could make for a ton of slots)
*Great profile (thin CT, and high sitting Cockpit with fairly high sitting arms)

The Weakness should be
*Low Armor for being a hvy (Profile helps CT and arms for being small but side missle pods can be hit if aimed)
*High Heat (Have to add sinks to be really effective)
*High Missle hardpoints (this mech is a support mech at heart while it does have a nice balance of weapons if you dont like SRMs or LRMs this might not be the mech for you)

Or U could give one ECM which would make for a great overall support mech Lots of missiles and lasers and ecm with the above weaknesses. Yes no classic Btech maddog had ecm but MW4 did so why not?

Also My fav mech please put in game and take my money

I agree with most of what you said. However, there's a big fat NO on the ECM. While I love ECM, and would love it on every single mech in the game so people don't feel forced to take a specific variant just for ECM, they don't seem to want to do that to keep mechs unique I guess. Mad Dog isn't so underpowered that it needs ECM, it'll still be formidable, it just won't be OP like the Timber Wolf is.
Though I will say, I wouldn't be against the Mad Dog getting the 360 torso twisting action like in MW4. However, if it turns like an atlas like in MW4 that kind of makes it more of a nerf than a buff, but would be fine since the Mad Dog could always run away to make sure it's weapons stay in long range (however, this would be a harder nerf to close range builds on Mad Dog).

[Valkyrie Vewas]

This MadDog PLEASE

Edited by Valkyrie Vewas, 23 July 2014 - 05:40 PM.

[The Helepolis]

Honestly, with the new hitboxes I think the Mad Dog will be quite the strange breed. I mean the beautiful thing is armed to the teeth, but I just feel that all of the Clan Mechs as they are, whilst have good weapons and perform decently. Seem to run a bit hotter than I'm used to in almost every different kind of set up I've tried and they're far slower than IS mechs as I currently type this. That's not to say I think they're bad, au contraire I love them to death. I just feel that the Clan Mechs work far better with some lance mates than pugging. I've had pain with the Nova despite dishing out some great damage, and I feel in a way that the vulture won't be much more different, at least on its own. Its a support mech, its not a brawler like the Mad Cat, so I'm a bit worried but hopeful at the same time.

[Caesar Lop]

Keeshu, on 23 July 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

http://bte.battletec...ad%20Dog%29%20A

Ah, so it is in the left arm. No one corrected me in any other thread where I said that. Probably because it's going to be in 1 arm no matter what, and even then the C arms allows you to pick which side you want.


I'll admit, when I heard clans were coming into MWO, and I looked at Mad Dog's A variant I was so friggin happy because of all the missle hardpoints that will be available. I loved running 6 SRM 6s on my Catapult A1. However, I haven't run my Splatapult since people were using them in closed beta. I'll have to take it out for a test drive to see if 6 SRMs are still very deadly (seems to be so with a quick mess around in testing grounds). Though just shooting in the test grounds on River City, Alphaing the 6 SRMs brings the heat up perfectly to 50% on my catapult. Smurfy says that 6 SRM 6 will produce 29.40 heat, and 6 LRM 15s will generate 51.42 heat. So you could get away with doing that, but you'll be waiting a long time due to lack of heat sinks. Remember that the missles are streamed though, and that people are most likely to shoot only 2 at a time so they can avoid ghost heat.
Mad Dog is supposed to be a rather glass cannony, so I like that it can be scary with it's missles.

Makes me feel good when you say that they probably won't use the MW4 design. Though I still worry that they might.

Knowing me, I'd be happy simply running the Mad Dog-A with a UAC/5 in place of the LB-5X. It's one of those builds that, at least to me, feels 'right' enough such that it barely needs any modifications outside of personal playstyle preferences (in my case, Ultra ACs whenever possible). OuO

I wouldn't count it out in terms of seeing them Spheroid-tooled Mad Dogs post-3060 although, as mentioned before, there isn't really much reason to do so as all it has different from the Prime config of the Mad Dogs we're familiar with is the chin turret. At the moment, putting in both Homeworld and Spheroid-tooled Mad Dogs in MWO would be akin to making the Timber Wolf Configs B and C available--identical enough a hardpoint setup to make one or the other completely redundant. o.o

[Keeshu]

I look forward to trying out the Nova. That massive Alpha potential. Lots of hiding because of the heat problems though. The Mad Dog won't be having as many heat problems luckily, but it'll still be rather high heat if you have some high heat energy weapons.



As for a minor Mad Dog A change, I'd probably replace the ac5 with another ER PPC. I tend to dislike using ballistics with missles because it takes soo much weight to make one of them effective. They are both ammo dependent as well, so I'd rather just get some decent energy weapons or for decent poking or get more ammo so I don't have to worry about ammo for those long games. Not knowing how to add ammo to weapons in MW2 as a kid doesn't help either. Also, I never do single Ac/5s,there must be at least two, because if I'm going to stare at someone, I better be doing some kickass damage. Also, AC/5 doesnt synergize well with the ER PPC outside of heat+range imo. with ER PPCs people are more likely to ignore the damage, but with the constant screen shaking and noises of ac/5 will make people go "UGH GOD WHAT IS HITTING ME?!" and move out of the way and also see where you are shooting from.


As for what I plan to use for the Mad Dog, oh gosh soo many wonderful things I can do with it, I love it.
Probably all the builds mentioned that only the Mad Dog can do but Timber Wolf can't except dual ac/20 because I just really love missles. I'd use the stock prime and C variants some times too.
LRM 90 - I love to see missles raining down on people. May drop some armor for Medium/small lasers for when I run out of ammo though so I can at least distract and finish people off. Sorry Summoner, Awesome and Stalker, but I love the Mad Dog more, and he can carry more missles (except stalker can tie it, but has to shoot missles in tiny chunks, and walks slower)
2 LRM 15, 4 SRM 6 with medium/small lasers - Tied with the Splatcat for my favorite Catapult A1 build. Effective missles for all ranges, but I have room for lasers on the Mad Dog.
4 LRM 15, 2 SSRM with medium/small lasers - For those days where I just want a balance between the previous 2 builds.
6 (S) SRM 6, 2 ER PPC/2 Large Laser/2-4 medium/4 small laser - I have to test these builds out. Splatcat has some of my favorite memories in MWO, however Mad Dog trades the jumpjets (since they've been nerfed I probably won't have the same fun with JJs anyways) for some energy weapons. How much I want to be a brawler, poker, anti-light, or an in between that day will decide which one of these combinations I do. I don't plan to do 6 SSRM 6 often though, because I generally think I'm good enough with my aim on SRMs that I don't need a lockon mechanic, I also don't want to scare away anymore brawler light pilots even if I hate enemy light mechs.

As for builds that Timber Wolf can also do (and probably do better than the Mad Dog):
Dual LRM 15 (or 20) and dual ER PPC. My 2 favorite weapons in pairs on the same mech that isn't rediculously slow? So awesome.

I may try 4 Large lasers because the Rifleman IIC was my first mech I played in a Mechwarrior game, and it was one of my favorites for a long time. While comparing MWO to MW2 lasers, they satisfy me in completely different ways so it's not the same. The only other mechs in game that may make want to use 4 Large lasers would be the Warhawk, or the Stalker (yes I know other mechs can use them just fine), but they are too slow for me.


Funny how most of my favorite builds are Mad Dog only because of the Mad Dog A. If we get Prime, B, and C I will be so sad (but still happy because stock Prime and C are still pretty awesome). Here's hoping for Prime, A, C (though all 4 would be nice since we know we'll never get more than those 4).

[Kilo 40]

Mad Dog A.

6 LRM5s, 16-17 tons of ammo. add on the primes LA and RA, then add 4 ERML.

Every Cat A1 pilot will be green with envy.

[Odanan]

Well, this IS the Ultimate Mad Dog Thread.

Prime, A and C configurations will be probably those chosen.

It is a nerfed Timber Wolf, but this can save the Mad Dog:

- very good hardpoints, even fully-loaded with missiles (if only they remade the Timber Wolf/Mad Dog legs a lot thinner...);
- tonnage limit in the drop.

[Steinar Bergstol]

The Mad Dog is the one and only Clan mech I, as an IS grognard, am actually considering buying and playing alongside my Thunderbolts, Griffins and so on. Why? Because the Mad Dog looks good (the _original_ Mad Dog. Let us never again mention the horrible abomination that is the MW4 version). That is all I need for me to want it. And they need to keep its slim and gangly look! It's not a proper Mad Dog if it doesn't look like a thin, gawky bird of doom.

Edited by Steinar Bergstol, 28 July 2014 - 03:22 AM.

[KuroNyra]

On strange aspect.
The bulky look of the Mad Dog remind me of the Warhammer 40K Sentinel used by the Imperial Guard.



The "bulky" look of these 2 guy have something... Familiar...
Needless to say. I absolutly love both of them. (in Dawn of War II retribution, I always pick the Imperial guard and swar my ennemy with countless Sentinels.

Using my own armyr named "Mad Dog Company")