46 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

lockwoodx, on 17 August 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

Clan er-SLs are great. Welcome to P2W

They aren't terrible, unlike the IS SL.

There's a difference there.

[Keeshu]

I had a really great time with this build on the BJ 1X and worked pretty well for me. Such a fun ambush mech. 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, 6 Small Pulse lasers, and with a BAP to speed up target gathering and to help friendly LRM boats. It's surprisingly very effective. It's like I'm using a very speedy Nova/Hunchback. The lasers are almost instantly so it's easy to have surgical precision with the pulses. It's definitely one of the more fun mechs I've piloted.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5c751716b04147a


Right now I'm doing the Blackjack 3. Just a slight deviation from the stock build. Slapped in an XL 235, added a BAP, replaced the mediums with smalls, and maxed out the armor. Seems to work pretty well for me. Small lasers are rather efficient with heat, so I use them whenever I cannot get away, and know I'll be in for a long battle.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...74f0a69b1608e50


When you're having problems with tonnage, Small Lasers really do the trick for lights and a few mediums, but really you need to have a lot of energy hardpoints to make them worth it.
I wouldn't mind a tiny buff. But I'd rather the Medium lasers get a small nerf than the Small lasers get a buff. I mean, these are super low tonnage weapons afterall.


(on a side note, I'm going to miss the high placement of the arms on the blackjack when I'm done with it and go to master other mechs)

[Carrie Harder]

The SL's gigantofuck range sacrifice is orders of magnitude greater than the tiny damage and beam duration advantages it receives over a Medium Laser, even when using 2 SL for every 1 ML.

[Chagatay]

I tried IS small lasers. They just don't work well. Too small of a range and too little damage. Would always rather have an IS med laser over two small ones.

I mean they have been buffed already but probably could use another buff. The falloff to 0 damage at 200m is harsh.

Edited by Chagatay, 17 August 2014 - 10:44 AM.

[Yiazmat]

On my nova I use 10 ersmalls and 2 etmeds to great effect. Is a backstab mech clear and simple. Never engage directly because you will lose. Also, aim for legs when firing 12 lasers (with a half second breath of course to avoid that STUPID ghost heat). I've killed sooooooooo many dire whales from behind by shooting the -front- of a foot from an angle. They'll back up, look to the left or right a little looking for who just took off 90% of their leg armor (if you do it properly it looks like the shot came from the front of them). Then 2 second later the leg is off. 5 seconds after that they die as I peel off the other leg :-D note:always shoot the right leg of a whale first. Ammo debt could remove it for you lol.

[Y E O N N E]

I use small (normal and pulse) on my Locusts; the faster cycle has come in handy more often than not and the low heat means I can fire when that six medium Jenner is waiting for his meter to dwindle.

I also use small lasers on my Blackjacks. On the BJ-1X with a STD 280, two smalls run heat-negative, meaning I can fire them while cooling off to get damage in if I am unable to leave the field. On the BJ-1DC, I use two AC/2 or an LB-10X + two mediums or two PPC to deal large damage while I close, and then slice them up with the smalls. It works, especially the PPC and LB-10X builds.

I also sometimes put small lasers on the Arrow when using an AC/5 or LB-10X. Lets you fire damn near indefinitely with a high damage output over time.

[Screech]

Maybe if they restored IS small lasers to their appropriate values they would stop needing to nerf clan small lasers so much. But PGI has historically had some phobia related to small lasers in general.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

6 SL and 2 ML on a Firestarter K. 4 SL and 8 SRMs on a Jenner D. Both are super high performance lights, though a bit risky.

[FDJustin]

Thanks for all the feedback and builds to ponder over. That partyback is a thing of hilarity.

I definitely don't think they're as good as mediums, but when we get ER Small's for IS mechs, I think the popularity will pick up greatly.

For a while I've been using SPLs, and last night switched to SL's while testing an increase from STD 250, to STD 270.
The result was less damage on average, for an un-noticeable speed increase- but a very valuable turning increase.
Small lasers seem to amplify your game. A good game goes very good since your engagements are long and hard. A bad game ends with 14 damage, instead of 50 that a bad ML game would end with.

Last night, I went on a rampage with 7SL's. It was pure bloodlust fuelled by rage from one too many "Warning, incoming missiles!" in a row.
First, the summoner had to go. And he did. Next, the Kintaro was made to suffer. Then, the stalkers. The mini-timberwolf laserboat Adder was the only thing protecting the walking Zeppelin's from their much deserved fate, but the gods were on my side and it could only make their destruction slower and more painful.




It was glorious, but in no way a typical match for me. I fare more in the 200 range most drops.
FS9-S No modules.

Edited by FDJustin, 17 August 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[Kubernetes]

I use them on a few builds as backup to PPCs. BJ-1X with 2 PPCs and 4 SLs for instance. Yeah, you could take two MLs, but your weapons dictate your play, and with MLs I'm way too tempted to take shots at 400m or more when I should be preserving my limited heat for PPC shots.

[FDJustin]

Kubernetes, on 17 August 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

I use them on a few builds as backup to PPCs. BJ-1X with 2 PPCs and 4 SLs for instance. Yeah, you could take two MLs, but your weapons dictate your play, and with MLs I'm way too tempted to take shots at 400m or more when I should be preserving my limited heat for PPC shots.

I can understand the logic behind that. Especially if you don't use ER's and really have them just in case someone is in kissing distance.

[WonderSparks]

I do not know about the rest of you, but I use Small Lasers to good effect sometimes.
Heck, my BLR-1D has four of them.
They may not pack a punch or even have decent range (why the machine gun has more range than the SL I will never understand) but they can be pretty useful in close.

[Voidcrafter]

I don't.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

I use standard smalls a lot on all my Firestarters. When you really need a low-heat energy weapon and have a lot of hardpoints, and you can stand to either stick in a fight or dart into and out of one, they're pretty good. Mind, you don't want to have -only- small lasers, but they're pretty effective for the cost in heat and weight.

[Cyborne Elemental]

There just aren't enough Energy hardpoints on most mechs to make use of them.

Firestarters or Jenners setup for a mass of smalls will definately eat you up, but its rare to see them.


But if we had the Atlas variant from the MW3 movie with 3 energy in the chest on top of normal arm energy, I might reconsider. (1:40)

Or if there was a Atlas hero with 6 energy points 2RT 2CT 2LT, that would be perfect for a 6pack SL.

Generally though, unless you're in a light and going to be up close and personal, there really isn't any point in dropping them in heavier mechs unless its a very special circumstance. Range is almost always the advantage in MWO.

The one and only time I found use for them, was in my Victor-9b, setup for 1 AC10 + 1ERPPC as my main.
Using 2 MG, 1 SL and 1 SSRM2 for dealing up close damage if I still need to put out some damage but didn't have a cooldown chance and got rushed.

Clan Smalls are a completely different story though, as they're effectively an IS Medium Laser for 0.5 tons.

[SolasTau]

Yeah, I run ER Smalls in my Nova and find it FAR more effective than the ER Mediums. Saving the tonnage gives you a few options to shore up the Nova's shortcomings, which is unbelievably useful.

[Bront]

Mister D, on 17 August 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Or if there was a Atlas hero with 6 energy points 2RT 2CT 2LT, that would be perfect for a 6pack SL.

Try the Partymaster BLR-3M

[v4skunk]

You guys should have seen the XL powered Hunchback laser boat with 9 SL, Or the Awesome medium laser boats back in the day (well over a year ago).
Lets say they were quite effective.

[Mcgral18]

v4skunk, on 17 August 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

You guys should have seen the XL powered Hunchback laser boat with 9 SL, Or the Awesome medium laser boats back in the day (well over a year ago).
Lets say they were quite effective.

And those nerfs are still in effect. 1 extra heat for both the SL and the ML.

100% heat for the SL.

[Koniving]

FDJustin, on 17 August 2014 - 03:39 AM, said:

So, I wonder. Does anyone else ever boat them, or are they forever relegated to the rank of filler? After all, you can grab a quad machinegun spider or ember and do the same thing better. Range gives you many, many more options for fighting, as well as a safer retreat, more damage, and means to continue fighting when legged.

I used to.

Of course, we'd use them a lot more if they had their canon heat values.

Currently IS and Clan small and medium lasers in MWO:
Small Laser: 2 heat, 3 damage.
Medium Laser: 4 heat, 5 damage. (270 meters)
Clan ER Small Laser: 2 heat, 4 damage. (200 meters)
Clan ER Medium Laser: 5 heat, 7 damage.

IS small and medium lasers in tabletop:
Small Laser: 1 heat, 3 damage.
Medium Laser: 3 heat, 5 damage. (270 meters)
Clan ER Small Laser: 2 heat, 5 damage. (180 meters)
Clan ER Medium Laser: 5 heat, 7 damage.

Notice something wrong here?

It gets better.
Currently IS and Clan Large class lasers in MWO:
Large Laser: 7 heat, 9 damage.
ER Large Laser 8 heat, 9 damage.
Clan ER Large Laser: 9 heat, 11.25 damage.

It gets better.
IS and Clan large class lasers in TT.
Large Laser: 8 heat, 8 damage.
ER Large Laser 12 heat, 8 damage.
Clan ER Large Laser: 12 heat, 10 damage.

Now wouldn't you use small lasers and even medium lasers more often if they actually used tabletop values?

Edited by Koniving, 18 August 2014 - 08:31 AM.