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Clan Balance Update - Feedback


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#41 Prezimonto

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:38 AM

View PostSlambert, on 05 September 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Back in the day RnR was introduced and removed.

Perhaps that was a mistake. Certainly I feel balancing IS v Clan in plain 1v1 mech strength might be more difficult.

Accept Clan mechs are stronger. Reintroduce repair cost scaling with mech cost. Clan mechs Would be far harder to maintain and turn a profit. Less cbill for consumables on Clan mechs as well...
It was removed for excellent reasons. That doesn't mean we didn't need SOME kind of economy based balance. Economy is REALLY the best reason to medium mechs AND to skip super expensive to repair upgrades and ammo.

#42 Meta 4

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:38 AM

I am confused by this statement:
"Increase in IS and Clan mech armor and internal structure if time to death decreases too much."
I believe Decreases should be increases...

Other than that I am okay with everything in the post.

#43 Weaselball

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:39 AM

View PostPope RW, on 05 September 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

I'll be happy to leave, refund the busted clan pack and I'll be out the door.


Goodbye. This game doesn't need players with your mentality of "my clan mechs should be inherently stronger than IS mechs because lore." We need balance. That does NOT mean making clan and is weapons copies of each other, but they have to be balanced out somehow otherwise 6 months from now there will be nothing but clan players and no IS mechs for them to go up against.

#44 BARBAR0SSA

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:40 AM

What's with all the whining about not having 10v12, because it doesn't fit in the old school lore? Who gives a crap!

I love reading complaints with absolutey zero point to them besides a "ME, ME, ME, I WANT" attitude.

#45 Ozric

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:41 AM

Good news for the most part.

Very happy that 10vs12 has been shelved for the time being, Much like R&R it's not like it was a bad idea, it's just that MWO was never the game to support it.

Clan weapons nerfs were inevitable and seem sensible enough. Testing has commenced.

IS mech quirks are long overdue and I have always agreed that they may go a long way to bringing the faction back in line. Don't be shy about, make variants really good at what they were built to do.

The plan for (partial) Clan XL destruction is also the sort of thing the community has been asking for.


The only thing I am worried about is no movement on Clan chassis balance. There has been enough live testing now for problems a few to become quite clear, and although every solution is lore breaking in one way or another something must still be done to balance them. Here are some examples of examples;

Summoner: (balance up)
Problem - Limited free tonnage (medium class loadouts on a 15mil heavy)
Solution A - Allow JJ removal
Solution B - Enable endo/FF upgrade switch

Timber Wolf: (balance down)
Problem - TBR too strong... and too fast... and has too many hardpoints...
Solution A - Lower speed/agility multiplier
Solution B - Lock JJ's on the omnipods

Regardless it all comes under the Quirks mentality that I am happy you are focusing on, and I hope you get creative with it.

#46 KingCobra

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:42 AM

RUSS (
  • Small increase in IS Mech heat efficiency.
  • Complete IS mech Quirk pass to give more uniqueness and ability when used within their respective roles.
  • Increase in IS and Clan mech armor and internal structure if time to death decreases too much.)
  • ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • I think your on the right track with these options. Mech longevity is one of the keys to helping the new players survive battles longer and gain needed skills to keep the game installed and paying into something they feel is worth there money. Plus new content as far as maps and new game modes would help as in a (stock mode and a Clan vs IS mode).

Edited by KingCobra, 05 September 2014 - 11:42 AM.


#47 Pope RW

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:42 AM

If we aren't going to allow for Lore then the game needs to be renamed.

#48 AgroAlba

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:44 AM

This all sounds good in my book!

I was never fond of the idea of 10v12 for the very reasons they mentioned, and I'm thrilled they're considering movement and heat penalties for the destruction of clan XL side torsos.

#49 Grey Death Storm

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:45 AM

View PostNikolai Lubkiewicz, on 05 September 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Hey everyone!

Please let us know your thoughts on the latest post from Russ





I have something to say:

Myself and a lot of people spent lot money in this game and in Clan Mechs In General I have just visited Mechlab and went onto training grounds with my Clan Mechs, Your Clan Weapon Balance or should I say Nerf!!!, Has pritty much steam rolled all my Clan Mech loadouts I cant even fire 4 - 8 shot without over heating. So far Meduim Laser receved Nerf heat 6 and Er Large Laser are now 10 heat penalty, Clan ER PPC are abusutely Useless with Slow Procetile firing and Mass heat 15 points.

A lot people Spent heffty price for all these mechs and now PGI are devaluing Clan Tech by introduing More nerfs Clan Weapons. I am personally very annoyed and in future will be thinking twice before I ever make another Purchase on any Package deal that is if course Im still playing Mechwarrior online.

I am serousily Disapointed specailly for all the people forked out all that money for Clan tech.

#50 Kin3ticX

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:46 AM

Thanks for the extra clarification Russ.

#51 Voivode

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:46 AM

View PostPrezimonto, on 05 September 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:


I don't understand how you can say they misrepresented what their goals with Clan mechs were. From the start they've said the aim was to make Clans different feeling to play, but balanced against IS mechs, rather than just better than IS mechs. We lost hope that the Clans were going to mimic TT over a year before they were released.


Misrepresented? Did you read what they planned or did you look at the pictures and click BUY NOW? This is pretty much in line with what they've said from the beginning. This info was available right on the initial screen on the webpage as well as links on the patcher / launcher that you start the game with.

Seriously, how do you even begin to claim they "misrepresented" the clan mechs? Of everything PGI has claimed they'd do, clan mechs are the SINGLE area where they delivered almost exactly what they promised.

Edited by Voivode, 05 September 2014 - 11:46 AM.


#52 Weaselball

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:47 AM

View PostPope RW, on 05 September 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

If we aren't going to allow for Lore then the game needs to be renamed.


You're clearly not thinking like someone who wants this game to succeed outside of the limited scope of the ultra-hardcore tabletop players.

#53 Felbombling

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:47 AM

Just a couple of points...

I am having a difficult time understanding the justification of the Clan Mech pricing after these weapon tweaks. It seems to me that the Clan technology was the determining factor, but if it is all being reigned in closer to the Inner Sphere technology level, why exactly are Clan Mechs so expensive again?
  • Clan Heat and Movement penalties if a Right or Left torso is destroyed.
Wait... what?! You are balancing Clan weapons when one of the most important influencing factors isn't even part of the game yet? It might seem trivial, but an XL equipped Inner Sphere Mech dies if either side torso is destroyed. You didn't think to add the traditional heat penalties to Clan Mechs for losing a side torso while mounting an XL engine? No wonder the Inner Sphere pilots have been screaming blue bloody murder.

Edited by StaggerCheck, 05 September 2014 - 12:05 PM.


#54 Prezimonto

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:47 AM

View PostVoivode, on 05 September 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:


Misrepresented? Did you read what they planned or did you look at the pictures and click BUY NOW? This is pretty much in line with what they've said from the beginning. This info was available right on the initial screen on the webpage as well as links on the patcher / launcher that you start the game with.

Seriously, how do you even begin to claim they "misrepresented" the clan mechs? Of everything PGI has claimed they'd do, clan mechs are the SINGLE area where they delivered almost exactly what they promised.


I'm not the one saying it.... I totally agree with you. For better or worse they delivered nearly exactly what they said they would. Now if only I could get my loyalty bonus going on the Phoenix mechs I own.....

#55 Kiryuin Ragyo

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:50 AM

CAN WE JUST GET IS BUFF INSTEAD OF CLAN NERF? PLEASE...

+ Binary Laser Cannon for IS
+ Increase of critical damage chance by 80% for all
+ "Dead 90 metres range" for C-LRMs.

#56 Doctor Proctor

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:51 AM

View PostThe Underdog, on 05 September 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

I am confused by this statement:
"Increase in IS and Clan mech armor and internal structure if time to death decreases too much."
I believe Decreases should be increases...

Other than that I am okay with everything in the post.


No, he means that if TTK decreases from say 1 minute to 40 seconds (just made up numbers) that they might increase armor and internals by say, 30% so that TTK would go from 40 seconds back to 1 minute again.

#57 MoonUnitBeta

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:51 AM

View PostShadowWard, on 05 September 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:


The thing is, its not the WEAPONS that make the Clan's OP. Its the fact that there is hardly any penalty to a Clan mech for losing its ST beyond the loss of weapons.

Yet instead of figuring out ways to make the loss of a ST effect a Clan mech (be it increased heat generation for the remaining weapons, decreases to movement, or other things), they are Cosntantly making it harder and harder and harder to use more than 1 of ANY Clan weapon without hiting 50-60% heat from fire.

DId you even read the post?
I quote it for you

Quote

in an effort to keep the unique feeling of the clan mech’s strong we will look to other areas to bridge the rest of the gap. Such as the following POTENTIAL changes:
  • Clan Heat and Movement penalties if a Right or Left torso is destroyed.
  • Small increase in IS Mech heat efficiency.
  • Complete IS mech Quirk pass to give more uniqueness and ability when used within their respective roles.
  • Increase in IS and Clan mech armor and internal structure if time to death decreases too much.


Edit: Made it real nice and big so you can't miss it.
Edit edit: adding some stuff:

They're chipping away at clan balance slowly and surely. These weapon changes bring the weapons more inline with IS, and they'll be looking into other systems to further separate clans from IS. Heat on weapons give the clans a little different flavour than IS. (although it's not limited to that) High heat, longer range, bit more damage, longer cooldowns.

These weapon changes aren't even that bad to even say that they're not looking at any other possibilities.
I'm really hoping that the IS quirk pass gets bumped up though. That'd be nice to have some uniqueness with the IS mechs.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 05 September 2014 - 11:56 AM.


#58 Jman5

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:52 AM

I'm happy to see you guys are not doing 10vs12. It was a doomed concept from the start for many more reasons than you listed.

Quote

  • Increase in IS and Clan mech armor and internal structure if time to death decreases too much.


I'm really excited to see another buff to mech hitpoints. The more we can move away from 1-2 hit killshots the less luck and more skill will play a role in deciding the victor. This is especially critical since this game does not have a respawn system. Plus it's less frustrating for new players who make positioning mistakes.

Another thing that excites me about this is that it could potentially make critical hits more valuable. There might be more emphasis on widdling down a mech's firepower with critical hits instead of just blasting through him. That to me has always been how I pictured mechwarrior. Losing limbs, weapons, ammo, but still limping along doing your best.

Perhaps what you might consider is buffing the center torso and legs hitpoints more than the arms and side torsos.

#59 keith

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:52 AM

everything sounds good beside IS mechs getting a better heat efficient. can't do 1 without the other, unless it via a wep balance

#60 Ryvucz

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:53 AM

10 vs 12 would have been a better option.





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