44 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

The current LRM gap between the IS and Clan is a very large gap for an IS mech to span with current weight/critical hit differences between IS and Clan launchers. There is no comparison between my Stalker and Madcat LRM boats, my Madcat wins all the time.

LRM Problems:
1st. Clan LRMs weigh significantly less and take up less critical hit space

2nd. Mech Chassis limitations IS engines limit IS mech to slower mechs with less DHS in the engines.

3rd. The attempt to make Clan Mechs be less appealing by making them stream is not enough. Streamed missiles group better than the massed IS LRM's.

LRM Fixes:
1st. Increase the stream time for Clan LRM's by 50% to give AMS more time to chew them up. For IS mechs to take advantage of this, they will have to equip AMS. It would also give IS mechs a better chance to escape.

2nd. Add Missile Bay doors to all Clan Mechs. If they want to fire missiles in a group then they need to have those bay doors open and open themselves up to increased damage.

3rd. Look at releasing an IS Missile based mech with JJ in the 70-85 ton range with an engine limit of 345 rating to give it 4 DHS in the engine with the missile tubes in the Torsos (at least with 4X10 tubes if not a higher tube rating) and not the arms.


Mechs Comparison

Stalker 3H
LRM 50 / 1800 rds
62.9 KPH
12 DHS
No JJ
496 Armor
Tag
3 ML
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2e3364954d8808

Madcat
LRM 60 / 1800 rds
62.8 KPH
15 DHS
1 JJ
441 Armor
Tag
1 CERML
2 CERSL
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...21a8c242332291f

[Kiiyor]

I'm actually of the opinion that IS LRM's are more powerful than Clan ones, despite the extra weight. The IS missiles tend to hit in one go, and make a mockery of torso twisting.

The strength of the Clan missiles in in stun-lock.

[ColonelMetus]

Everyone knows IS has better LRMS, TRoll post is troll

[FupDup]

Clan Lurms are more geared towards generalization. Their lower weight makes it easier for the user to to carry backup weapons, and their ability to deal reduced damage within 180 meters lets them at least annoy the enemy if they get that close.

IS Lurms are more specialized/niche. Their particular goal in life is to smack your face with a single glob of Lurmy goodness. You have less time to get to cover/break locks, and AMs won't help you as much.

[aniviron]

You must not be going up against many people with AMS in your Timberwolf. Shooting salvos of 30 at a time, a single AMS will shoot down all but few, and double AMS will shoot down every last missile, with plenty of room to spare. If the other team has more than 2 AMS and one ECM, most clan LRMs can't even break through. If there's any problem at all, it's with the Timberwolf, which is crazy fast and has ridiculous armor even when mounting lots of weaponry.

Also, I don't think the missile bay door thing works like you think it does; mechs with bay doors get a bonus when closed, and function as normal when open. Giving every clan mech missile bay doors would be a significant buff.

[Dirty Old Man]

I also feel that the design as it is intended. It took a long time to get the LRMS for IS the way it is now, not perfect but better then any other previously.

[Rhent]

Kiiyor, on 28 September 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

I'm actually of the opinion that IS LRM's are more powerful than Clan ones, despite the extra weight. The IS missiles tend to hit in one go, and make a mockery of torso twisting.

The strength of the Clan missiles in in stun-lock.

The IS missiles can hit in one slam if fired simultaneously, however that slam spreads out all over the mech and a lot of those missiles will miss. If you fire a stream of LRM 5's for instance, the grouping will be tighter and hit the CT. The downside is it allows AMS to better intercept the missiles. The Clan Missile grouping isn't as good as the LRM 5, however the stream is tight enough to where Clan missiles that do get through AMS hits the mech and don't miss like IS missiles.

So to me, the Clan LRM Stream has a higher hit rate and it hits better in the torsos than the IS missile slam.

aniviron, on 28 September 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

You must not be going up against many people with AMS in your Timberwolf. Shooting salvos of 30 at a time, a single AMS will shoot down all but few, and double AMS will shoot down every last missile, with plenty of room to spare. If the other team has more than 2 AMS and one ECM, most clan LRMs can't even break through. If there's any problem at all, it's with the Timberwolf, which is crazy fast and has ridiculous armor even when mounting lots of weaponry.

Also, I don't think the missile bay door thing works like you think it does; mechs with bay doors get a bonus when closed, and function as normal when open. Giving every clan mech missile bay doors would be a significant buff.

Clan mechs now are firing akin to IS Sphere mechs w/o Missile Bay doors, ie if your fire one, they all fire simultaneously. If the Clan had missile bay doors, then when they fired all of their LRM's they would fire staggered. If they wanted to fire their LRM's in one volley then they'd have to open up missile bay doors which allows enemy players to do extra damage to mechs with bay doors open. Its a penalty not a buff.

aniviron, on 28 September 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

You must not be going up against many people with AMS in your Timberwolf. Shooting salvos of 30 at a time, a single AMS will shoot down all but few, and double AMS will shoot down every last missile, with plenty of room to spare. If the other team has more than 2 AMS and one ECM, most clan LRMs can't even break through. If there's any problem at all, it's with the Timberwolf, which is crazy fast and has ridiculous armor even when mounting lots of weaponry.

Also, I don't think the missile bay door thing works like you think it does; mechs with bay doors get a bonus when closed, and function as normal when open. Giving every clan mech missile bay doors would be a significant buff.

I fire LRM 60 when I notice any AMS in the area. Otherwise its LRM 30 volleys. And yes this mech destroys any and all IS LRM mechs for damage. Its a solid 1K damage mech.

[Kain Demos]

Kiiyor, on 28 September 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

I'm actually of the opinion that IS LRM's are more powerful than Clan ones, despite the extra weight. The IS missiles tend to hit in one go, and make a mockery of torso twisting.

The strength of the Clan missiles in in stun-lock.

See, I think IS LRMs are better at stunlock. The way they group if you get a guy chainfiring LRM5s on you you're done.

AMS works very well against Clan LRMs too.

Edited by Kain Thul, 28 September 2014 - 09:34 PM.

[Hillslam]

Silly OP, you are not allowed to suggest nerfs to clan mechs here. The neckbeards have hissies if you do.

[Kain Demos]

ColonelMetus, on 28 September 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Everyone knows IS has better LRMS, TRoll post is troll

I don't know, some people just aren't very bright.

In game I've seen many cries of "OP stupid LRMs ruining the game" and I've had to explain to them that they are stupid if they think Clan LRMs are better.

[aniviron]

Rhent, on 28 September 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

Clan mechs now are firing akin to IS Sphere mechs w/o Missile Bay doors, ie if your fire one, they all fire simultaneously. If the Clan had missile bay doors, then when they fired all of their LRM's they would fire staggered. If they wanted to fire their LRM's in one volley then they'd have to open up missile bay doors which allows enemy players to do extra damage to mechs with bay doors open. Its a penalty not a buff.

I'll reiterate: having the doors open is not a penalty. If you have the doors open on a Catapult or Centurion, the values listed in the mech lab are exactly what you get in-game. If you have the doors shut, you get a 10% damage reduction on that component. Worst case scenario for clan mechs if you give them doors is that they don't change at all. For the ones that don't fire missiles that much, it's a straight buff.

[Karl Marlow]

Rhent, on 28 September 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:

LRM Fixes:

2nd. Add Missile Bay doors to all Clan Mechs. If they want to fire missiles in a group then they need to have those bay doors open and open themselves up to increased damage.

I'm going to stay out of the overall debate on how good/bad Is /Clan LRM's are. However I wanted to focus this point out. You misunderstand how the missile bay doors work. Having them open doesn't make you any more vulnerable than any other mech that does not have bay doors. Bay doors just give you a damage resistance boost to that section while it is closed. IIRC it's a 10% damage resistance. Adding them to clan mechs would be a Buff. Not that I am for or against adding them but I feel it is necessary to clarify what you are asking for.

[Triordinant]

ThomasMarik, on 28 September 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

I'm going to stay out of the overall debate on how good/bad Is /Clan LRM's are. However I wanted to focus this point out. You misunderstand how the missile bay doors work. Having them open doesn't make you any more vulnerable than any other mech that does not have bay doors. Bay doors just give you a damage resistance boost to that section while it is closed. IIRC it's a 10% damage resistance. Adding them to clan mechs would be a Buff. Not that I am for or against adding them but I feel it is necessary to clarify what you are asking for.

Beat me to it -and yes, it's 10% DR.

[Redshift2k5]

Bay doors open doesn't give you more damage, bay doors closed gives you bonus damage resistance. with a door open an AC10 will still do 10 damage,

Giving clan mechs doors would make them more powerful not weaker.

[El Bandito]

I personally prefer Clan LRM's flatter firing arc over that of an IS one. IS missiles take too long to arrive to the target, and are completely useless in lower saddle/tunnel fights.

It is pretty funny that although I think IS LRMs are slightly superior to that of Clan ones overall, IS LRMs are totally worthless in Clan vs IS matches. Trading long range fire with the Clanners is just stupid.

Therefore IS LRMs are going to be useless come CW, unless the ECM rework goes through.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 September 2014 - 10:36 PM.

[Kain Demos]

El Bandito, on 28 September 2014 - 10:28 PM, said:

I personally prefer Clan LRM's flatter firing arc over that of an IS one. IS missiles take too long to arrive to the target, and are completely useless in lower saddle/tunnel fights.

It is pretty funny that although I think IS LRMs are slightly superior to that of Clan ones overall, IS LRMs are totally worthless in Clan vs IS matches.

Once again I feel the opposite. THe trajectory the IS missiles take lets them defeat much taller cover compared to the Clan versions.

Also, I don't konw if it is a bug or what but it seems that often they will not arc up at all in indirect fire scenarios and just run straight into the ground. It seems to happen every time I set a new target--the first salvo is wasted but follow up shots will take a flight path over the cover.

[El Bandito]

Kain Thul, on 28 September 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:

Once again I feel the opposite. THe trajectory the IS missiles take lets them defeat much taller cover compared to the Clan versions.

Also, I don't konw if it is a bug or what but it seems that often they will not arc up at all in indirect fire scenarios and just run straight into the ground. It seems to happen every time I set a new target--the first salvo is wasted but follow up shots will take a flight path over the cover.

All you have to do to duplicate IS firing arc with Clan launchers is to quickly twist the torso/arms up when firing, or fire right next to certain wall surfaces--very simple to do. Clan launchers have superior direct firing arc in addition.

As for the second part of your comment, that's due to incomplete missile lock bug. Your first volley was not fully locked, sometimes even after holding it for 2 seconds.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 September 2014 - 10:50 PM.

[Lynx7725]

My opinion is that IS LRMs are better than Clan LRMs for specialist work; I can duplicate Clan streaming rocks with IS LRMs by chain firing (and I rock harder with IS LRMs now that CLRMs had their impulse reduced), and when I need to I can blob up for more damage. The tonnage is heavier, true, but that just reinforces the IS LRM boat build.

Clan LRMs as mentioned by others, is more a utility weapon than can be safely stuffed into a build for "general use". It has advantages, but it also means there's less of a need for a dedicated LRM platform in Clan toumans since many Clan mechs would have some LRM capability.

[Kmieciu]

My expert opinion on the Clan LRMs are that they suck.

Tried to use a 2xC-LRM20 on a Dire Wolv during the lance challenge. Had enough ammo to spam LRM for the whole duration of the match. 150-300 damage on average. Thanks to me my friends got their spot/NARC/TAG assists, but I felt like a liability for the team.

Then I switched to a 2xGauss+laser build and scored 1000+ damage on the first match.

Edited by Kmieciu, 28 September 2014 - 10:54 PM.

[Lord de Seis]

Ah they both seem fine, you see a game here and there where there is a ton of LRM's but for the most part there is a good mix of them. The IS LRM's seem more powerful to me, I would have to disagree with you there, it is easier to make clan LRM boats though with the omni points.