25 replies to this topic

[mad kat]

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed a bit a pattern emerging here with the clan mechs.

Despite how much PGI don't want it this game always has been and always will be an arms race which can be seen by the amount of assault mechs each game. But this has extended right into the clan mechs.

I'm noticing more and more now that the superiority (subjective) of clan tech is directly inverse to the skill of the pilot. I've been having numerous games now where a lot of clan mechs are struggling to break even 200 damage and a lot of them seem to spend more time hiding than actually putting those weapons to good effect. Has PGI cleverly and underhandedly aimed these clan mechs at new and inexperienced players because that's all i seem to be dropping with lately and it's actually the IS mechs which do the bulk of the work. I Can name one player right now who i've seen in a Direfail and a summoner who has been about as much use as a toddler with a French stick for a weapon.

On the odd occasion i have taken a clan trial mech for a spin i have not had much trouble adjusting to it and even the fragile lets overheat for fun Nova prime I still did quite well in it. I don't want to come across as trolling btw i'm just curious to see if anyone else has noticed?

>Insert Black Sabbath Paranoid here.<

Edited by mad kat, 03 October 2014 - 01:57 AM.

[Elizander]

The assault mech population is just due to the Dire Wolf release. I have seen the assault mech queue drop down below 20% in favor of mediums or lights or heavies depending on what was recently released. There isn't much argument to be made about assault mechs being popular when a new assault mech is released.

[Lyoto Machida]

What exactly is a "french stick for a weapon"???

[mad kat]

Lyoto Machida, on 03 October 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

What exactly is a "french stick for a weapon"???

Baguette sorry.

Edited by mad kat, 03 October 2014 - 01:51 AM.

[KingDavid]

I was in a match with 4 Dire wolves in my team and some others clan mechs and we got stomped bad. 2 of the Dire wolves got below 200 damage and the other 2 below 100 damage. So it's the skill of the pilot more important than the mech he piloted.

[ice trey]

mad kat, on 03 October 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

this game always has been and always will be an arms race

Not true. The game was far better balanced during the closed beta, and maybe even a bit during the open beta. I can't remember the order.

However, when we lost "Repair and Reload" as a game mechanic, because it supposedly didn't contribute anything to the game, there was no longer any reason to pull your punches and use the lower-tech gear. Suddenly, EVERYONE was running XL engined lights at 150 Kph, Endo-steeling their Atlases, and there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to use anything but double heat sinks on any design, even if it runs cool already.

Before it was gone, players who gave themselves the tech advantage found themselves looking at repair bills so big that every last C-bill earned on a failed mission got gobbled up to fix their machine. It really encouraged the community to pull their punches, as even those good players know that they're only as good as their team, and even with a K/D ratio of 5-1, if you're the last player against the remaining half of the enemy team, you're going to lose all those earnings.

[mongo2006]

Clan mechs are no longer fun to pilot bro, it's like going to work. Every time I break out my Timber my girl starts smiling, she knows I'm gonna have to release some stress pretty soon. There is no room for error with them anymore, It's a constant balancing act with heat and positioning. I'll still do 500 - 1000 a game but like you, I see a lot of 120 - 250.

The clan mechs are pretty much ruined for new players, it will take them quite a bit of time to get used to the heat and huge CT's. They still pretty nice to look at.. but when I want to enjoy the game I break out my Jager or Cat, those are now my TW hunters. It breaks my heart to see a noob with 4 LRM 15s on the TW because they can't deal with laser heat..

Edited by mongo2006, 03 October 2014 - 02:30 AM.

[Hades Trooper]

of course the clans got watered down, we should have seen it coming, PGI milked the cash cow, now it's time to water down clans and make those IS look good for the flunkies who have poured in cash for IS hero mechs, cause you know there not OP when compared to the standard versions now are they?

Hint, hint, look how many Dragonslayers where used in the only tournament they run? oh whats that, House of Lord and all the final 4 groups ONLY used Dragonslayers and you know now there getting another buff with quirks,

yeah game balance rocks

/end rant

[oldradagast]

The whining about how "wimpy" Clan mechs are is hilarious.

What, exactly, did people thing was going to happen with Clan mechs? Did people honestly think that they were going to be allowed to be insanely overpowered - as in the tabletop game - and they'd get a nice "pay to win" easy-button where they could ROFL stomp IS mechs for months on end while spouting off "learn to play!" while ignoring the fact that their "skills" are based solely on their mech have 50% more firepower for free?

PGI did the RIGHT thing in balancing the clans, and while the balance isn't perfect, it is pretty darn close, and probably close than anyone could have hoped given the fact that the Clans are broken BY DESIGN.

I also get a laugh out of people whining how all of this is a "cash cow." What do you think the Clans were in the first place back in table top? That's right - a cash cow, designed to get people to buy new, overpowered, broken toys. At least PGI has the good sense not to trash a game by simply obsoleting everything that came before the Clans.

With regard to the OP, yes, there are going to be an increasing number of bad Clan pilots as the Clan mechs become available for Cbills. That in no way reflects on the relative power of Clan mechs. I've played against Lords in group drops - they have a solid mix of Clan and the few really good IS chassis. Groups like that determine what is truly viable, not the steering wheel underhive.

Edited by oldradagast, 03 October 2014 - 03:21 AM.

[mad kat]

Pgi have succeeded in balancing the is vs the clan mechs but it seems to of hit the clan mechs especially hard. Because they just dont seem capable of laying a decent damage output consistently. As a result i treat clan mechs as a weight class above in other word light is a medium, heavy an assualt etc. But my IS srm boats prove to be too much for clan mechs to deal with mono et mono. Yeah if you caught in the open against a balistic clan mech your in trouble but using cover well a good IS pilot can tear a clan mech apart. Removing its arms is always a good start then focus on the ctr. The only clan mechs that i come across that are any real danger are the lrm boats and they are quite possibly equally the most pathetic clan loadouts if you can get close.

It appears that their heat profile renders them nearly incapable of brawling and with hit boxes that make an awesome look tiny their extra armour really is negated.

Edited by mad kat, 03 October 2014 - 03:21 AM.

[meteorol]

The increased amount of clan mechs used by bad players is simply the result of them being available for everyone for cbills (and trail mechs). With the increasing number of clan mechs on the field, there is also an increasing chance of them to perform poorly.

Clan mechs still murder IS mechs left and right if used by a good pilot. If you are watching streams of the comp guys, you will see most of them use nothing but clan mechs. And the comp guys don't use them because they like how they look or the lore. They use them because the premium clan mechs (TW, Stormcrow, DW) are still flat out superior to IS mechs, even after the heat nerfs.

I think alot of guys playing underestimate how powerful clan mechs are because they are playing against guys who don't use optimal builds and have problems with heat management. As of now, the timberwolf is still the most powerful mech this game has to offer. If you are not able to see this, you are piloting him wrong.

Looking at my clanmechs (i only own TWs and DWs), all of them have a k/d of above 4, and i'm not even a spectacular good (or even comp) player. I'm an average casual who plays an hour or two every 2nd or third day.

Bad players will do bad no matter what mech they use. Before the clans were released there were enough guys doing below 20 damage in a DS, even if it was the best mech in the game at that time. Clan mechs don't magically increase a players skill.

[Ghogiel]

If this is PUG games you are talking about... well it's PUG games, what were you expecting?

As a someone once told me> a **** player in a dragonslayer is still a **** player.

Edited by Ghogiel, 03 October 2014 - 04:31 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

oldradagast, on 03 October 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

The whining about how "wimpy" Clan mechs are is hilarious.

What, exactly, did people thing was going to happen with Clan mechs? Did people honestly think that they were going to be allowed to be insanely overpowered - as in the tabletop game - and they'd get a nice "pay to win" easy-button where they could ROFL stomp IS mechs for months on end while spouting off "learn to play!" while ignoring the fact that their "skills" are based solely on their mech have 50% more firepower for free?

PGI did the RIGHT thing in balancing the clans, and while the balance isn't perfect, it is pretty darn close, and probably close than anyone could have hoped given the fact that the Clans are broken BY DESIGN.

I also get a laugh out of people whining how all of this is a "cash cow." What do you think the Clans were in the first place back in table top? That's right - a cash cow, designed to get people to buy new, overpowered, broken toys. At least PGI has the good sense not to trash a game by simply obsoleting everything that came before the Clans.

With regard to the OP, yes, there are going to be an increasing number of bad Clan pilots as the Clan mechs become available for Cbills. That in no way reflects on the relative power of Clan mechs. I've played against Lords in group drops - they have a solid mix of Clan and the few really good IS chassis. Groups like that determine what is truly viable, not the steering wheel underhive.

No but we expected them to have at least be a fairly balanced game play experience while having a different feel and flavor. PGI has been nerfing them so hard though that it is begining to feel like they are at a major disadvantage.

They are just so hot now with the recent changes. I mean I have better heat efficiency at the same firepower and DPS level on a IS mech mounting 18 DHS than I do a Clan mech with 22 DHS. Something is wrong with this picture. Also only the best Clan mechs like the Timber Wolf remain competitive, others like the Nova have fallen to below average performance levels and are easily bested by IS mediums which run cooler, have better hit boxes and often have the ability to deliver devastating pin point damage.

Further, we are going to be seeing an even more significant nerf in the form of the XL changes for Clan mechs. This is going to have tremendous impact on Clan mechs across the board. While this change will end up taking the Timber Wolf, Dire Wolf and Stormcrow down from being classified as good to mearly average or at most slightly above average, it is going to take the Nova and Summoner from below average to plain bad.

[Hillslam]

Um ok, see sig

[Mcgral18]

Hillslam, on 03 October 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Um ok, see sig

I'd take isACs and isPulse Lasers over the terrible Clan versions any day.

Perhaps you'd prefer to make a specific statement, rather than a blatantly false blanket statement?

[Roland]

Most of the playerbase on both the clan and IS sides are terrible pilots who don't grasp the basic fundamentals of driving mechs. It doesn't matter what mech they are in.

[Alek Ituin]

ice trey, on 03 October 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

It really encouraged the community to pull their punches, as even those good players know that they're only as good as their team, and even with a K/D ratio of 5-1, if you're the last player against the remaining half of the enemy team, you're going to lose all those earnings.

Repair and Reload only served to entrench sniper warfare and cowardice. It detracted from the fun by making everybody paranoid about not taking any damage, thus we ended up with s**t like the poptart and sniper metas.

R&R was a horrible and overall degrading mechanic for MWO, and it's a damn good thing they removed it when they did.


THAT SAID HOWEVER, R&R should be reimplemented properly. And we need a big fat income boost for damage/kills/assists (in all forms)/comp. destructions, without increasing match base income and multipliers.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 03 October 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[Darth Futuza]

Uh no OP, I think you're just paranoid. The reason why is pretty simple:

Clan Mechs are just cooler looking, so new players grab them first. I mean why pilot a Cataphract when you can have a Timberwolf? Even if Cataphracts were superior, they look dumber.

[Screech]

Yeah other people are bad.

[mad kat]

To be fair if the clan mechs are supposed to be hotter and maybe the nerf is more in line with cannon. As far as i can remember back to MW2 clan mechs biggest problem is their hot weapons. maybe it just transforms badly into this game