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Mist Lynx (Koshi) Theorycrafting


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#1 IllCaesar

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 08:13 PM

The Mist Lynx weighs in at 25 tons total, with an XL175 engine that can reach 113 KPH (125 w/ speed tweak), making it the smallest and fastest clan light so far. It also comes with six jump jets, carries three external double-heatsinks, and a Clan Acrive Probe in the cockpit. Assuming that the six jump jets and active probe are all locked in and cannot be removed, that leaves 7.25 tons for weapons and extra equipment.

The omnipods for the Prime:

Right Arm - 2 B, 1 M
Left Arm - 1 M

The B:
Right Arm - 2M, 1E
Left Arm - 2 E

The C:
Right Arm - 2 E
Left Arm - 1 AMS, 1 ECM

A Clan ECM suite weighs 1 ton. No torso-mounted hardpoints at all.

I imagine that we'll be seeing a lot of ECM alongside either 2x SRM6 w/ 2t and 1 CML for harassment and fending off ankle-biting lights, or the stock C loadout, maybe with removing the AMS to upgrade to an ER PPC.

#2 Nightshade24

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 05:09 AM

I think you may see quite a few 2 MG's and 2 C ER med Las builds.

Also a number of builds with ECM and something like a LBX 2, UAC 2 , or AC 2. (clan).
Ironically the Ice Ferret/ Fenris has more speed so it'll be interesting to see what this thing can do.

#3 DONTOR

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 09:31 AM

Nah 3 ERMLs and 2 SSRM2s or SRM4s with 1.5 tons ammo.

Or ECM with a large Energy weapon and a few small missles.

View PostMarsAtlas, on 07 October 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

The Mist Lynx weighs in at 25 tons total, with an XL175 engine that can reach 113 KPH (125 w/ speed tweak), making it the smallest and fastest clan light so far.


Also the Ice ferret will be faster, but obviously not smaller, which is why Im looking forward to the ferret more.

#4 IllCaesar

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 09:54 AM

View PostDONTOR, on 09 October 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

Nah 3 ERMLs and 2 SSRM2s or SRM4s with 1.5 tons ammo.

Or ECM with a large Energy weapon and a few small missles.



Also the Ice ferret will be faster, but obviously not smaller, which is why Im looking forward to the ferret more.


In all honesty, I'm looking to the Ice Ferret more. Especially for the reason that the build you just described could be run on an Ice Ferret with 2 SSRM4s or 2 SSRM6s, depending on how you manage your weight. As an ECM support mech, the Kitfox has a huge advantage over the Mist Lynx, so I'm having a hard time seeing what it can do with such limited weight. An ECM Spider has more weight and speed, even an ECM Commando. All I know is that if its too big, it'll be DOA. That could hurt the Ice Ferret, but being too big will kill the Mist Lynx.

#5 InspectorG

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 02:44 PM

If it was half the size of a Commando...that might be God-Mode :o

Bigger than a Commando??? Maybe warrants a refund?

#6 DONTOR

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 09:03 PM

If its same size I will be elated.

#7 Temptis

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 06:46 AM

unless the chassis has some serious quirks it will be subject to lots of drama.
it's basicly a Commando at 125kmh with 6 fixed JJ and a fixed CAP
and it is 6t Podspace, not 7.25, the stock versions are all underarmored.

all in all, more a Big Joke than a Small Death

#8 InspectorG

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 07:21 AM

View PostTemptis, on 10 October 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

unless the chassis has some serious quirks it will be subject to lots of drama.
it's basicly a Commando at 125kmh with 6 fixed JJ and a fixed CAP
and it is 6t Podspace, not 7.25, the stock versions are all underarmored.

all in all, more a Big Joke than a Small Death


Really, it depends on how it handles. If it is quicker and more agile than a Commando, i might be happy. The weapons payload is small and it is not as fast as most IS lights its size.

Clan erml and srm should mitigate some of it. I just want my damn Fire Moth with the overhead arms.

Part of the 'problem' is they are basing speeds on BT design specs, not MWO play. Most Commandos didnt go 171.1kph after all, but after customization it became kinda standard. Unforeseen consequences? Clans have no option to change their engine.

#9 Alexander MacTaggart

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 09:05 PM

View PostInspectorG, on 10 October 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Part of the 'problem' is they are basing speeds on BT design specs, not MWO play. Most Commandos didnt go 171.1kph after all, but after customization it became kinda standard. Unforeseen consequences? Clans have no option to change their engine.


I agree but probably not for the reason you would think. The 'problem' is that the 150kph+ light has become 'standard'.

The game would have been a lot better if all engines were locked like Clan ones, then we wouldn't have seen this speed inflation.

#10 Tim East

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 09:15 PM

View PostAlexander MacTaggart, on 30 October 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:


I agree but probably not for the reason you would think. The 'problem' is that the 150kph+ light has become 'standard'.

The game would have been a lot better if all engines were locked like Clan ones, then we wouldn't have seen this speed inflation.

I rather doubt you'd see even as many lights as you do now if their engines were limited to stock values. One could easily put forth the argument that the reason 150+kph speed is more or less a requirement is due to the way convergence is handled and is only one part of a meta directly resultant from a series of design decisions that shape the game as we know it today, but ehhh...making logical arguments when I could be playing the blasted game just doesn't appeal to me at the moment. Another time perhaps.

#11 InspectorG

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 09:09 AM

View PostAlexander MacTaggart, on 30 October 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:


I agree but probably not for the reason you would think. The 'problem' is that the 150kph+ light has become 'standard'.

The game would have been a lot better if all engines were locked like Clan ones, then we wouldn't have seen this speed inflation.


Well, to support SOME customization, chassis could have variants with different engine caps. Like maybe 2-3 choices of engine per variant with some variants able to get a higher cap from its supposed role.
Example: most Commandos can get either 85 or 105 kph (after speed tweak off the top of my head) with one chassis getting the 171. Something like that.

And as a side note, in BT jj propulsion usually matched the cruising speed of a mech, yes?
MWO has, what, a blanket 75kph???

#12 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:12 AM

This will be a fail Mech. This must run at 160kmph+, at 125 after sp it is a dead thing. Unless this thing has half the size of Locust, it is dead in the water.

Soon PGI will have to deal with fact that not a single Clan light is even remotely competitive. I hope they will help this thing by some serious elven magic, like +300% damage of energy weapons. Anything less and it is a walking coffin. Yes, a walking one, not like the Locust that can at least run for its death.

#13 Alexander MacTaggart

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:14 AM

View PostMordin Ashe, on 02 November 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Soon PGI will have to deal with fact that not a single Clan light is even remotely competitive.


No other light can do the Kit Fox's job as well as it can (ECM Bubble + AMS Umbrella + Close Support of Heavies/Assaults).

Hyperbole much?

#14 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:25 AM

My Raven-3L can do that much better, and so can most spiders with their perfect hitboxes.
Anyway, RVN-3L, 3xML, SRM6, some ammo, AMS. All any team will ever need and a Mech that Kit Fox can never beat unless it boats SSRMs.
Spiders are... well, spiders.

The thing is, Kit Fox is good compared to other Clan lights, but if you throw IS lights into the mix (which will always happen, either in current games or in CW when they will be pitted against Jenners, Ravens and Spiders) they are useless and underperforming. It is not hyperbole, just look at the lights you see in drops. Jenners. Ravens. Spdiers. Firestarters! Those occasional Clan lights are die-hards like me who simply have to play them because they are Clan tech. Doesn't change a thing on the fact that they are poor Mechs. To my knowledge not a single comp team uses them and that is probably for a good reason. Go figure out that hyperbole :)

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 02 November 2014 - 09:25 AM.


#15 InspectorG

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:46 AM

View PostMordin Ashe, on 02 November 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

This will be a fail Mech. This must run at 160kmph+, at 125 after sp it is a dead thing. Unless this thing has half the size of Locust, it is dead in the water.

Soon PGI will have to deal with fact that not a single Clan light is even remotely competitive. I hope they will help this thing by some serious elven magic, like +300% damage of energy weapons. Anything less and it is a walking coffin. Yes, a walking one, not like the Locust that can at least run for its death.


http://www.mercenary...php?topic=201.0

Kitfox is listed as tier 2, only behind Ember and Jenner F, in comp play.
In this list tier 2 is 'competitive but rare due to niche purpose'

Kitfox is a decent mech.

Mist Lynx time will tell, but the Kitfox was assumed DOA before its release because it is 'slow'. That assumption is currently wrong.

#16 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 10:04 AM

View PostInspectorG, on 02 November 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

http://www.mercenary...php?topic=201.0
Kitfox is listed as tier 2, only behind Ember and Jenner F, in comp play.
In this list tier 2 is 'competitive but rare due to niche purpose'

Kitfox is a decent mech.

Mist Lynx time will tell, but the Kitfox was assumed DOA before its release because it is 'slow'. That assumption is currently wrong.

That is one way of reading that list, yes. Another interpretation is that the only things worse than Kit Fox are very bad Streak builds. T2 on that link are described as "niche" and if the team needs solid light performer, they still would take Ember or Jenner. It is on that list as well and we should keep that in mind.
Also that list doesn't translate into what PGI has to offer because it only has 3 tiers. Would that go to PGI standards, it would be T3, some setups probably even T4 - and that isn't decent, that is average to subpar and calls for serious buffs.

Don't get me wrong about the "decency" of Clan lights. I am running the current event in Adders and do very well, I even have games with 700+ dmg and my K/D is well over 2.0. But the problem is, once you are pushed to make choices you will strive for the best picks, and Clan lights are very far from being exactly that. It is a problem that has to be dealt with at some point, and links from pro players that specificaly state "niche" and "less effective" doesn't make them any better, in fact it only makes my point more valid.

Kit Fox was expected to be DOA, yes. And tell me, how many you see in battles right now? Almost everyone has one, or can have one. Why are people still running their better IS chassis? There must be some small spark of truth in what I am saying, even if it is only a small one.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 02 November 2014 - 10:05 AM.


#17 InspectorG

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 10:16 AM

View PostMordin Ashe, on 02 November 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

That is one way of reading that list, yes. Another interpretation is that the only things worse than Kit Fox are very bad Streak builds. T2 on that link are described as "niche" and if the team needs solid light performer, they still would take Ember or Jenner. It is on that list as well and we should keep that in mind.
Also that list doesn't translate into what PGI has to offer because it only has 3 tiers. Would that go to PGI standards, it would be T3, some setups probably even T4 - and that isn't decent, that is average to subpar and calls for serious buffs.

Don't get me wrong about the "decency" of Clan lights. I am running the current event in Adders and do very well, I even have games with 700+ dmg and my K/D is well over 2.0. But the problem is, once you are pushed to make choices you will strive for the best picks, and Clan lights are very far from being exactly that. It is a problem that has to be dealt with at some point, and links from pro players that specificaly state "niche" and "less effective" doesn't make them any better, in fact it only makes my point more valid.

Kit Fox was expected to be DOA, yes. And tell me, how many you see in battles right now? Almost everyone has one, or can have one. Why are people still running their better IS chassis? There must be some small spark of truth in what I am saying, even if it is only a small one.


True to a degree, Kitfox isnt, in the average comp hands, as competitive as the Ember or Jenner F.

That argument is based solely on playing to win.
Many people, like me, play for entertainment.

If the natural conclusion is to only play the best comp mechs, no one would ever play anything other than the best 2 choices.

I see MANY kitfoxes at my elo in Puglandia. 3-4 in my team is a sight i see about 2-3 times a week at my elo which i guess is not horrible because the average play around me is getting better.

People also may run Kitfoxes because they value Clan identity over comp meta.

Your point is valid, but only for comp players.
People who play for entertainment, will play what they like.

Side note, this will likely change when CW hits.

#18 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 10:49 AM

Agreed, and CW is exactly what bugs me. I don't play IS Mechs because I am a clanner and that won't change, but if we are pushed to pick the best we have because some FRR folks will be doing the very same and we will fight for a planet, no ammount of Kit Fox utility can save the day. Clan identity alone won't win a battle, so I suppose we will need some buffs to be competitive in CW. I really, really hope that will happen because my 240t decks rely heavily on potent Clan lights.

#19 Alexander MacTaggart

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 06:39 PM

View PostMordin Ashe, on 02 November 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

My Raven-3L can do that much better, and so can most spiders with their perfect hitboxes.


Unless your Ravens and Spiders can mount ECM, 3xAMS, 5,000 rounds of AMS ammo, and 10 tons of weaponry then no, they don't do it better. Sorry.

#20 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 09:16 PM

View PostAlexander MacTaggart, on 02 November 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:


Unless your Ravens and Spiders can mount ECM, 3xAMS, 5,000 rounds of AMS ammo, and 10 tons of weaponry then no, they don't do it better. Sorry.

Of course no Raven can take 3xAMS, but that doesn't matter that much. You can compensate by taking AMS overload or by 2 Mechs taking AMS which you probably should consider as well because one Kit Fox can be killed easily because of his poor speed and once that is done, your team is without AMS. If you have assets that important that you have to take 3 of them, you should consider spreading it so that you won't loose it all due to bad luck.
Regarding weaponry, the best 3L can pick is 3xMLs and a 6pack, but given its speed it is much more likely to put that to good use without getting harmed. Also, keep in mind the quirks we will get tomorrow. There is a fair chance that IS lights with quirks will be more dangerous than those heavy armed Clan lights without quirks.

Kit Fox can perform that duty, yes, but I agree with the link InspectorG posted. I would also describe it as a "niche" and " less optimal". Somehow functional, yes, but not the best pick and after tuesday that will even get worse.





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