63 replies to this topic

[Past]

Seriously these weapon specific bonuses are way to big to ignore looking at the Hunchback 4G 25% bonus to cool down, Range & Velocity on the AC20 if you ignore that you are missing out greatly and there isn't even a general ballistic weapon buff for any other ballistic weapons that i thought used to be mentioned in the command chair post but no longer appears to be there.

But on top of taking away the choice of how to build our mech now they also time this right after a lot of people would have gone on weapon module buying sprees. So you spent a ton of Cbills on the modules for your mechs to match its weapons and now guess what if you don't use the weapons you are told to you miss out on these large bonuses. So great you have taken away our ability to customize and at the same time wasted millions of Cbills on modules that don't match what you are forcing us to equip.

On top of that rebuilds usually require engine size changes which is another massive Cbill sink I'm sure your aware of all this though and like the idea of MC becoming more necessary to play but i had hoped silly tactics like this had gone with IGP apparently not.

Been playing since closed beta and have closely followed development and in my personal opinion trying to force load outs and killing customization is a massive misstep and the worst change that has ever been made.

[Krivvan]

As long as the quirks are relatively general I have no issue with them. Builds like 1 machine gun + 1AC/2 on a hunchback aren't unique and special, they're just dumb and bad. I'd prefer it if it were a general buff to ACs rather than just the AC/20 or etc. The general laser buff on the awesome is fine.

Edited by Krivvan, 16 October 2014 - 05:52 PM.

[Lord de Seis]

The quirks aren't forcing a weapon system on a mech, you get a bonus for having them but you can still do any build you want.

[orcrist86]

Giving a boost to a specific build is not taking away choice. It is incentivising different builds that reflect a mechs history and use according to lore.

[Eddrick]

It could be worse. Sized hardpoints would take the issue to an extreme.

[Joe Mallad]

so my question is if i configure the AC-20 Hunch as they suggest and get all the cool buffs, will my already purchased AC-20 weapon modules stack? If so, i have the cool down (level 2) for my AC-20 which grants me a 4.8% cool down. If i use it on the Hunch with the 25% cool down quirk, will I then have a 29.8% cool down?

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 16 October 2014 - 06:12 PM.

[Triordinant]

The IS buffs (quirks) and Clan nerfs can both be traced back to the official decision to make IS vs Clan matches 12 vs 12 instead of 10 vs 12 or some other number, as I posted on another thread.

[Past]

I know you are still capable of equipping anything you want but in my mind ignoring these bonuses it would be like say for example making a back stab type rogue character in an RPG type game and then instead of using daggers for some reason you would use a 2 handed mace. I wouldn't do that in a game like that it would be stupid and i wouldn't want to do that in this game except now i wont have a choice.

[SweetJackal]

What is interesting is that the 4G quirks don't exclusively power the AC20 but also some other builds to a lesser degree. Will have to wait on the Swayback quirks and the like but lower heat and more range might make an LPL based build more attractive than before the quirks.

[Rhaegor]

Past, on 16 October 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

I know you are still capable of equipping anything you want but in my mind ignoring these bonuses it would be like say for example making a back stab type rogue character in an RPG type game and then instead of using daggers for some reason you would use a 2 handed mace. I wouldn't do that in a game like that it would be stupid and i wouldn't want to do that in this game except now i wont have a choice.

That is going to be a choice everyone has to make, and I can promise you that some people will build what they like to play, or what they are good at playing rather than the build to min/max bonuses. I will build according to min/max bonuses myself, but I am sure many other will not,

[Naduk]

general buff are stupid and boring
if the hunchback received +xyz buff to all auto cannon weapons there is zero difference between the separate chassis aside from purely hard points, as stated by russ this creates a situation where there is no reason to own/desire/drive a 4G vs a 4H
this continues the current trend where only vastly different variants like the 4G vs 4SP are anything worth considering as different

what this system will do is encourage people to try out certain weapons and mix it in with the general purpose stuff (like the energy on 4G)
people can still experiment just as they did before and run builds like 3x Ac5 or Ac2, or AC10+ pulse lasers or even 2x Large pulse, 3x mg and 1x medium pulse
you are not penalized at all for trying different things
however if you have an AC20 on your 4G its going to get a significant performance boost

if you dont like Ac20 on your 4g and have always run a guass and do not intend on changing that
there is no drama, you are not getting nerfed for running a gauss, you are still getting a buff overall as your back up energy weapons have gotten slightly more efficient. perhaps you can save some weight there and take more ammo or something
either way it is only a good thing

people can still run lasers and missiles on their Awesomes but if you choose to run ppc's now you will be stronger
nothing has been taken away from those alternate builds

now considering people ONLY customize a build because they believe they can make it stronger than it was before or they dislike a certain weapon system and seek to remove it
it is only fair to provide benefits to running a mech close to how it was intended to run from the factory
and at the end of the day, if you still prefer your custom non specifically buffed weapons you still gain all the other general buffs added to each chassis and suffer no ill consequences for using items out side of those parameters

[Joe Mallad]

i like that PGI has given them quirks that show the true nature of what "that variant" was intended for. But still giving people the option to customize them as you see fit. Here is how I see it. If you take the Hunchback 4G but for whatever reason, you dont want the AC-20 on it but would rather have another AC or Gauss... bla bla bla, you can STILL equip weapon modules for the weapon you have in it. You dont get the AC-20 boosts, but you can still get some added boost to whatever you throw in there, with your added weapon modules.

And i am perfectly ok with this. I just want to now know if the quirk boost and a weapon module boost will stack?

[Past]

That's exactly it Rhaegor most will want to min/max. Meta builds already everywhere and its boring seeing the same load out everywhere. this just compounds that problem.

Also if the majority reconfigure to get the new weapon bonuses with all their different variants to take advantage of these buffs which they will and your one of the few that decide to customize to what you want which is what mechwarrior is all about. You have effectively been nerfed as everyone else has buffs that you miss out on from being creative with your load out rather than doing as you are told. Its really a terrible design.

Edited by Past, 16 October 2014 - 06:46 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Naduk, on 16 October 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

general buff are stupid and boring
if the hunchback received +xyz buff to all auto cannon weapons there is zero difference between the separate chassis aside from purely hard points, as stated by russ this creates a situation where there is no reason to own/desire/drive a 4G vs a 4H
this continues the current trend where only vastly different variants like the 4G vs 4SP are anything worth considering as different

what this system will do is encourage people to try out certain weapons and mix it in with the general purpose stuff (like the energy on 4G)
people can still experiment just as they did before and run builds like 3x Ac5 or Ac2, or AC10+ pulse lasers or even 2x Large pulse, 3x mg and 1x medium pulse
you are not penalized at all for trying different things
however if you have an AC20 on your 4G its going to get a significant performance boost

if you dont like Ac20 on your 4g and have always run a guass and do not intend on changing that
there is no drama, you are not getting nerfed for running a gauss, you are still getting a buff overall as your back up energy weapons have gotten slightly more efficient. perhaps you can save some weight there and take more ammo or something
either way it is only a good thing

people can still run lasers and missiles on their Awesomes but if you choose to run ppc's now you will be stronger
nothing has been taken away from those alternate builds

now considering people ONLY customize a build because they believe they can make it stronger than it was before or they dislike a certain weapon system and seek to remove it
it is only fair to provide benefits to running a mech close to how it was intended to run from the factory
and at the end of the day, if you still prefer your custom non specifically buffed weapons you still gain all the other general buffs added to each chassis and suffer no ill consequences for using items out side of those parameters

very well said.

[Rhaegor]

Past, on 16 October 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

That's exactly it Rhaegor most will want to min/max. Meta builds already everywhere and its boring seeing the same load out everywhere. this just compounds that problem.

Also if the majority reconfigure to get the new weapon bonuses with all their different variants to take advantage of these buffs which they will and your one of the few that decide to customize to what you want which is what mechwarrior is all about. You have effectively been nerfed as everyone else has buffs that you miss out on from being creative with your load out rather than doing as you are told. Its really a terrible design.

True, but there are going to be multiple best meta builds for each variant. I hope there is not only one "best" build, but like 2 or 3 like now.

[Glythe]

You know what's really funny? The AC/20 used to have 660m range. That is what made the hunchback amazing with the AC/20; but as soon as they took that away the mech became total garbage.

I'm sorry but 25% boost to 270m is still WAY less than 660m. GG wasn't close.

Past, on 16 October 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

customize ... is what mechwarrior is all about. You have effectively been nerfed as everyone else has buffs that you miss out on from being creative with your load out rather than doing as you are told. Its really a terrible design.

Really great point.

Quirks sound bad and need to be flat blanket buffs..... like better DHS (closer to 2.0).

Edited by Glythe, 16 October 2014 - 07:02 PM.

[Past]

Naduk, on 16 October 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

general buff are stupid and boring
if the hunchback received +xyz buff to all auto cannon weapons there is zero difference between the separate chassis aside from purely hard points

You would make the general buffs different for the different chassis for example Hunchback 4G bonus rate of fire Hunchback 4H bonus range hardly rocket science.

Naduk, on 16 October 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

it is only fair to provide benefits to running a mech close to how it was intended to run from the factory

Sorry to burst your bubble but there is no factory this is a game and the mechs are part of a program there's nothing fair basing anything on something that doesn't exist.

[SweetJackal]

Past, on 16 October 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

That's exactly it Rhaegor most will want to min/max. Meta builds already everywhere and its boring seeing the same load out everywhere. this just compounds that problem.

Also if the majority reconfigure to get the new weapon bonuses with all their different variants to take advantage of these buffs which they will and your one of the few that decide to customize to what you want which is what mechwarrior is all about. You have effectively been nerfed as everyone else has buffs that you miss out on from being creative with your load out rather than doing as you are told. Its really a terrible design.

No loadout is getting 'nerfed' by this. Any build will be just as effective for it's tonnage as it was before the quirk pass. In fact, some of the weaknesses for off-meta mechs will be compensated for like the hunchback getting more armor and structure in it's massive hunch.

Rather, what is happening is that builds and mechs that were far below par when compared to Meta Mechs (that the common complaint is -everyone runs them-) are getting a boost to try to make them more competitive and appealing. I sincerely doubt you will see quirks giving boosts to meta builds.

The goal of this is to see more mechs on the field and a greater variety of weapons and builds. When the common elements of most mechs are AC/5s, PPCs and ERLLs you start to see homogenization to the point that the mech matters less and less as more and more people are running similar setups as those setups are far more effective from a risk/reward/effort standpoint.

If you were running an AC/5s+PPCs builds on the 4G then this change won't impact you negatively. Rather, it will improve your ability to keep your Hunch by making it tougher and improve your heat management and range on your PPCs. Instead what this will empower is alternate builds to hopefully allow them to be competitive options compared to the Meta, expanding the Meta and making it much richer and deeper than it is right now.

The one thing that could be argued is that the 4H has limiting quirks as they relate to the AC/10 and MLs directly but I cannot remember if the 4H has stronger builds and this would bring the AC/10+ML loadout onto par with it. But out of 3 teased this is the only one that could even be argued as limiting. The Awesome gets a majority of PPC buffs mixed in with a Beam buff for it's small laser that also pumps up Laser Vomit builds that existed on the Awesome before the days of ghostheat.

[Joe Mallad]

People are not being penalized for not taking the intended weapon quirks. It's just more incentive to play that variant a bit closer to its indented nature. Sure some will go full bore and want to take all the buffs but, if you switch out weapons for others you feel more comfortable playing, you still can. You're just not getting a buff for what was intended to be there. BUT... You can still buff your own weapons by adding your own weapon cool down and range modules. So there are still options people.

[Vassago Rain]