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Ac10 Vs Gauss On Med. Mechs


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#1 mogs01gt

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:42 AM

DPS wise the AC10 takes it but for killing blows, Gauss wins. The lack of available weight is my biggest reasoning for not going with the Gauss and DPS is second. Can anyone else think of better reasons to take a Gauss over the AC10 on Meds? Sniping is huge advantage to the Gauss but sniping is more of a early game issue and all you are doing is stripping armor and not hit open CTs which is rough since the Gauss has limited ammo.


Mogs

Edited by mogs01gt, 20 October 2014 - 09:49 AM.


#2 Jody Von Jedi

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:48 AM

I'm interested in hearing replies to this question. I would like to become proficient with the Gauss, but it is heavy. You know I run mostly mediums too, so I'm glad you asked this.

#3 Dawnstealer

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:56 AM

I like the Gauss, but it takes up so much room and is so heavy, it's kind of situational. In PUGs, you can really surprise someone when they see a medium and an assault and decide to focus on the Assault, leaving themselves open for that gauss shot to the flank or back.

But in organized drops? Not so sure.

Like most of these things, it probably comes down to the pilot and what they're used to. I like the ACs because I can arc them over hills and when they're taken out, they don't blow up a whole side of my mech.

#4 happy mech

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:04 AM

for mediums, i use uac5+3 tons of ammo
great damage when shooting, when jammed you have the speed to fall back

#5 mogs01gt

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:14 AM

View Posthappy mech, on 20 October 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

for mediums, i use uac5+3 tons of ammo
great damage when shooting, when jammed you have the speed to fall back

My issue with the UAC is it's unreliability and you have to spend more time on target compared to the larger ACs and the Gauss. My biggest issue in the game right now is dealing with high alpha's from clan mechs.

#6 Foxfire kadrpg

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:24 AM

Seems to me the AC10 would be more of a teamplay weapon: more tonnage for other armament, or just more ammo, and a bit more panic-friendly performance. The guass is better for kill sniping, if you are just looking to pad some stats, but 3 tons on a medium is a significant investment not to mention guass explosions.

Guass works on heavies and above to both compensate for their inability to move on the battlefield as well as having the tonnage for more ammo or other options. When it comes to damage output for my mediums, SRMs seem to outperform other weapons.

Bottom line: AC10 for mediums.

#7 mogs01gt

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:35 AM

View PostFoxfire kadrpg, on 20 October 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

Seems to me the AC10 would be more of a teamplay weapon: more tonnage for other armament, or just more ammo, and a bit more panic-friendly performance. The guass is better for kill sniping, if you are just looking to pad some stats, but 3 tons on a medium is a significant investment not to mention guass explosions.

Guass works on heavies and above to both compensate for their inability to move on the battlefield as well as having the tonnage for more ammo or other options. When it comes to damage output for my mediums, SRMs seem to outperform other weapons.

Bottom line: AC10 for mediums.

I tend to agree but the question remains, is it better to stack damage with the AC10/20 and SRMs or got for kill shots with the Gauss?

#8 happy mech

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:36 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 20 October 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

My issue with the UAC is it's unreliability and you have to spend more time on target compared to the larger ACs and the Gauss. My biggest issue in the game right now is dealing with high alpha's from clan mechs.


uac5 is 9 tons
ac10 is 12 tons
gauss is 15 tons (+explodes)

3 tons means xl 255 -> xl 300 or more weapons
6 tons means, well, severely crippling all other options

it takes more time to deliver more 5 point shots rather than one 10 or 15 point, but since you try to fire alongside your team or backstab the 6dps of uac outperforms the ac10 and gauss
coupled with higher engine or more weapons, the uac allows you to create opportunities

medium+uac5, try it, imo made for each other :)

#9 RazorbeastFXK3

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:36 AM

LB10X is real fun. 1 ton less than the AC10 and you have a better chance of dealing crit hits on any unarmored internals. Concentrating fire on a single part using the AC10 is nice but there are times when the ballistic flies between the legs or under the armpit of your target or just over the shoulder. With the LB10X you pretty much sneeze on your opponent.

With the Gauss Rifle, yes, you have a higher reward of dealing a lot more damage with less chance of revealing your location through tracer-like rounds (I'm sure you all have seen autocannon fire and traced it back to the shooter more often than not) But you also run the risk of it getting hit and exploding which results in taking out a third to half of your 'mech.

The upside and downside of the gauss rifle seem a bit balanced to me compared to the noisy AC10. I've seen some Medium weight builds where they carry x2 AC5 and just unload those at the same time for x10 damage at a faster rate of fire than the AC10. +1 ton heavier than just using a gauss rifle.

I guess it just depends on the playstyle of the pilot. What works for one may be complete unusable garbage for another.

#10 IllCaesar

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:53 AM

I finally tried out the Gauss on my 4H Saturday night, and this was my first match with it.

Spoiler


Thats with a STD200 engine, single heatsinks, and three Medium Lasers - I could pack a lot more power and speed if I spent the 1.5 million to upgrade to DHS. And I know some people like to even pack XLs in Hunchback 4Gs/4Hs because once your Hunch is gone, most of your firepower is gone anyways. I also am liking the Gauss over the AC10 on the mediums because of the vastly increased projectile speed. The Gauss in my 4H is working out better in the past few matches than tha AC10 ever did. Gonna have to try out the Gauss rifle on the Centurion, because I've seen a few people post 500+ damage games with it, once even an 800 damage game.

On the other hand, some mechs I just can't see it ever working. I've tried out the GaussJack, don't work - too squishy. I've tried out Gauss on the Vindicator-1X, definitely don't work, arms fall off way too easily. Cicada, doesn't work, makes it go too slow. Shadowhawks rely on XLs to maintain speed, and the ballistics are in the side torso, so when that goes, you go, when there's an entire other side of the mech with missile and energy hardpoints. I didn't like the AC10 on the Shadowhawk, but it did perform far better than the Gauss Rifle did. AC10 is probably better for more chassis. Three whole tons less (which can be a huge difference), more ammo per ton, doesn't explode. The Hunchback only benefits because of the cons not really outweighing the pros, and as for the Centurion, you have an entire deadside to take the heat from the enemy.

Edited by MarsAtlas, 20 October 2014 - 10:54 AM.


#11 Mercer Skye

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 10:54 AM

I doubt you're ever going to get a truly satisfactory answer for this line of questioning.

Both weapons are built for two different purposes.

So instead of asking which is best, I think it would be more pertinent to ask which is best at what?

AC10/UAC5 is the weapon you want if you're going to be doing a lot of close in work. Moving along the front line, taking shots and doing moderate brawling. Coupled with SRM/SSRM missiles and a MLas/MPLas or two, can be devastating.

Gauss is the weapon you want if you're going to be doing ranged work. If you intend the 'mech to move solo or along the support line providing precision ranged shots to facilitate kills for the team. Coupled with a ER/LLas or PPCs, it can be just as effective as heavies sporting similar loadouts, with the advantage that it can maneuver the field faster.

So which is better for a medium? I dunno, how do you want to run it?

#12 Macksheen

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 11:01 AM

There's a piece of my brain that won't let me run in a gauss in a side torso - I'm crazy like that. So, that means for mediums, I run the Gauss in my Blackjack, but not my Hunchback; I may run it in a CN9, but not a SHD. For those, I go 20 (which is rough, as it means STD engine) ... dual 5s if I can ... or a 10.

#13 mogs01gt

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 11:10 AM

View PostMercer Skye, on 20 October 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I doubt you're ever going to get a truly satisfactory answer for this line of questioning.
Both weapons are built for two different purposes.
So instead of asking which is best, I think it would be more pertinent to ask which is best at what?
AC10/UAC5 is the weapon you want if you're going to be doing a lot of close in work. Moving along the front line, taking shots and doing moderate brawling. Coupled with SRM/SSRM missiles and a MLas/MPLas or two, can be devastating.
Gauss is the weapon you want if you're going to be doing ranged work. If you intend the 'mech to move solo or along the support line providing precision ranged shots to facilitate kills for the team. Coupled with a ER/LLas or PPCs, it can be just as effective as heavies sporting similar loadouts, with the advantage that it can maneuver the field faster.
So which is better for a medium? I dunno, how do you want to run it?

The issue isnt play style IMO. Mediums shouldnt really be trying to brawn when they are vastly out gunned and out armored.


Once I really think about it, my biggest problem I have with Gauss is lack of ammo. I can spend the entire first minutes of the match stripping armor at 1500km away and have nothing left to take out red CTs. That was my issue playing over the weekend, I kept questioning should I waste this ammo? Right there the AC5's and AC10(some what)win hands down.

#14 Mercer Skye

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 01:32 PM

View Postmogs01gt, on 20 October 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

The issue isnt play style IMO. Mediums shouldnt really be trying to brawn when they are vastly out gunned and out armored.


Once I really think about it, my biggest problem I have with Gauss is lack of ammo. I can spend the entire first minutes of the match stripping armor at 1500km away and have nothing left to take out red CTs. That was my issue playing over the weekend, I kept questioning should I waste this ammo? Right there the AC5's and AC10(some what)win hands down.


Straight up brawling, no, a medium is going to lose to just about anything heavier, or at the very least, if it wins, it might as well have lost anyway for the punishment received.

But to completely remove playstyle from the equation is wrong, in my opinion. If you're aiming to strip armor at the beginning of the match, and move in later, that factors into what you want to bring. Further, if you want to do it at a click out, that, to me is the deciding factor. This is playstyle dictating loadout. So I'd want something like this. The PPC to move around the outside of the field, placing precise shots, with the Gauss for good shots and finishing blows.

Whereas, if I'm of the mind I want to be impacting the fight from the start (skirmishing as opposed to brawling), I'd go with something like this or this. It's going to last the whole match as well, but arguably will be useless when the AC runs silent and the tubes dry up. (Though, I probably wouldn't build it on the 2D :lol: )

And obviously, you can tweak them further to you tastes. You could drop to a 250 XL in the gauss loadout, and free up more room for ammo, seeing as how you don't need to scoot and move as much as a skirmishing build. You could also drop a Streak and a ton of its ammo to bump the Skirmishing build up to a higher engine to make better use of cover.

In the end, I think playstyle matters just as much in loadout choice, because taking the more ammo poor 'sniper' build is never going to do as well in the hands of a pilot with a brawler mindset. Those builds take a lot more finesse, and some people just honestly lack the patience to hang on the side of a fight lining up shots and taking the time to reposition.

#15 Takashi Uchida

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 03:32 AM

Here's my experience:

Centurion: NOPE. People know to aim for the arm (which doesn't have that much armor) and unlike an AC, it might take your torso with it! Not heavy/fast enough IMO.

Shadowhawk: I used to run the 5M with Gauss and 2 ERLL. For the 2D2, can run it with 2 ML some SRMs. Strafe an enemy, fire the other weapons, but also hold down the Gauss when you begin. That way, you hit em with everything, finish with the Gauss, and spin out. If the shot isn't there you can always let it time out and save your slugs.

Nova: Too much weigh eaten up by jump jets to really have much room for ammo and other weapons if you put a Gauss rifle in. Probably not worth it.

Stormcrow: The best experience running Gauss on a medium so far for me (C left arm ballistic). I would assume that if the gun explodes, the CASE would prevent damage from spreading to the torso (dunno, hasn't happened yet). Plus, lots of room for ammo and other weapons.

#16 mogs01gt

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:04 AM

View PostTakashi Uchida, on 21 October 2014 - 03:32 AM, said:

Stormcrow: The best experience running Gauss on a medium so far for me (C left arm ballistic). I would assume that if the gun explodes, the CASE would prevent damage from spreading to the torso (dunno, hasn't happened yet). Plus, lots of room for ammo and other weapons.

Never looked at the Crow's before.... holy crap you stuff **** ton of damage in those!

#17 Voivode

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:13 AM

Depends on the build. If I've got an ERLL a Gauss is a good pairing. If I've got 2xML + 2xSRM4 or something like that then the AC10 is going to work with those weapons better. Complimenting weapons are important on a medium because of the limited tonnage.

Fun build for a Cicada 3C, btw, 1xLL + 1xAC10

#18 Kodyn

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:17 AM

Just because someone posted an 800 damage game once of a Gauss Cent does not mean it's good...

People can post a 1k+ damage match of any old crap mech build, it doesn't mean a thing except that they had a good match.

What you need to decide based on is your play style, no matter what. If you like to brawl, I'd highly suggest avoiding Gauss, at least on mediums-the fragility of it, plus the slow shot is going to have you pulling hair out half your matches. This is where the LB 10 and dual AC/5s shine.

If you like to be mostly a support player, and just snipe targets of opportunity, go for the Gauss, but even then, dual AC/5 is better in many situations. UAC/5's singly are pretty much worthless, AC/10 can be used for some snipy-ish stuff if you have range module 5, and especially after quirk pass on certain mechs.

Basically you just need to try them all out and decide based on what works for how you like to play, and within the limits of your abilities. No one can tell you which will be better for you.

#19 Elizander

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:24 AM

You can pack 50 shots in a cent and have some medium lasers for gauss. Not sure how that is not enough ammo.

#20 mogs01gt

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:47 AM

View PostKodyn, on 21 October 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

Just because someone posted an 800 damage game once of a Gauss Cent does not mean it's good...
People can post a 1k+ damage match of any old crap mech build, it doesn't mean a thing except that they had a good match.
What you need to decide based on is your play style, no matter what. If you like to brawl, I'd highly suggest avoiding Gauss, at least on mediums-the fragility of it, plus the slow shot is going to have you pulling hair out half your matches. This is where the LB 10 and dual AC/5s shine.If you like to be mostly a support player, and just snipe targets of opportunity, go for the Gauss, but even then, dual AC/5 is better in many situations. UAC/5's singly are pretty much worthless, AC/10 can be used for some snipy-ish stuff if you have range module 5, and especially after quirk pass on certain mechs.Basically you just need to try them all out and decide based on what works for how you like to play, and within the limits of your abilities. No one can tell you which will be better for you.

Your ramblings have zero to do with the discussion.

I’m talking about how certain weapons functions on a class of mechs. I could care less about the player. Facts are facts, certain weapons function better on certain classes of mechs. The Gauss beats the AC10 in nearly every category except for close range combat and durability. The issue for IS Mediums is lack of tonnage for the superior weapon. The discussion is, "is it worth taking the Gauss with its negative vs. the AC10 with its negatives".

My biggest reason to use the Gauss is when I aiming at something at 500-800ms, I don’t have to worry about the projectile. The AC/10's projectile is utterly ridiculous with its trajectory.

I think I'll get a Stormcrow and try it out. They have plenty of tonnage to handle the Gauss.





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