17 replies to this topic

[juxstapo]

Viability seems iffy due to engine cap and hardpoints (cue argument to tell me how wrong I am ) . But I've been waiting for the Panther since day 1, and frankly wasn't sure we were ever going t o get it. I love the mech in TT, love the concept love the lore, etc. etc. So this is the only level of this particular pack I've purchased, and I will master it very quickly.

I have several friends who do quite well in Locusts, I have one who is simply amazing. I have another buddy who does impressive things with a Vindicator. So I know running what the meta would call "sub-par" chassis succesfully is a matter of skill and heart.

Granted, in a comp drop would probably default back to an Ember, but you get the idea.

So, max engine is a 250, which gives us 115/127 kph (pre /post speed tweak). Two of the variants allow for several energy weapons in the arm, ala le'Griffin, but this will be one of my Lore-Correctish role playing chassis. So... PPC it is.

To begin preparing for this I've set up a FS9-H with a 235xl, which gives me 119 w/ tweak. Trying to get it close to a non-tweaked panther with the engines I have. Armament is a single ER-PPC. Fill the difference with DHS. Granted this fails to simulate the SRM rack, but there's a high chance I would strip it for more cooling anyway, regardless I'd much rather use a Firestarter as a placebo PTR than a Jenner; height, build, lower arm actuators.

So.... it isn't terrible. It's actually quite fun. Very amusing, very satisfying to ping a target at med/long range while torso twisting to extensus with your arm jacked as far sideways as it'll go. Now I've been straining to the perimeter of my abilities (such as it is, sic), and haven't broke triple digits damage yet... which is fine.
Really, I'm enjoying this thing far more than I thought I was going to. The lowish engine (used to Jenners, Spiders, and Firestarters), hasn't been nearly the handicap I was afraid it was going to be... although my 235 is a bit faster than a non-tweaked PTR will be, still... baby steps. It forces you to position better and protect your gun arm. Things that dedicated Griffin pilots and lore-correct Cent pilots already swear by, but it comes in much sharper relief in a light mech.

I'm saving my pennies for a 250xl and an ER-PPC cooldown module. Radar Derp is a must-have on almost any chassis for me. Part of me dug the idea of Advanced zoom on a sniper-esque machine, but I think, slots permitting I'll be going seismic instead.

Who else has been looking forward to the Panther very muchly?

EDIT: Check that, just got 337 damage on tourmaline.
This
Is
Fun.

Edited by juxstapo, 24 October 2014 - 09:00 PM.

[Ovion]

Lets look at the numbers first.
Stock Speed 64.8 / 71.3
Max Speed 115.7 / 127.3
Available Tonnage (After 250engine, Endo, Ferro, max armour, 12pts in head) - STD=8 XL=14T
Available Tonnage (After 250engine, Endo, Ferro, max armour, one arm unarmoured, 1pt in head) - STD=9 XL=15T

PNT-10K - 2M, 2E, 2AMS, 8JJ, 250Rated, Endo
(Stock = PPC, SRM4 w/ Artemis, 4JJ, STD140)

PNT-8Z - 2M, 3E, 1AMS, 4JJ, 250Rated
(Stock = LL, SRM4, 4JJ, STD140)

PNT-9R - 1M, 4E, 1AMS, 4JJ, 250Rated
(Stock = PPC, SRM4, 4JJ, STD140)
That's not bad tbh.
127 is perfectly respectable speed wise, and using an XL boasts 14 tons of space for weapons and gear.

Even using half that on a PPC, it leaves 7 Tons to play with.
I'd say drop the Artemis, Then whack either 2 SRM4's in the CT with 2T of ammo, then either a Medium Laser or drop the armour on the Left Arm for a Medium Pulse. (DHS will be a must here).

That gives you something going just shy of 130, with an ERPPC, SRM8 and a M(P)L.

Personally, I'd be tempted to whack a either a Large Pulse Laser + Medium Pulse Laser or 2 MPL on there instead though.
Either way, Artemis needs to go.

You can probably make a solid ERLL sniper with it too, or solid TAG/NARC support boat.

With the other variants... the 3E, 2M one, not sure on tbh, maybe a LPL and 2 MPL/SPL and some SRMs?
but the 4E, 1M one is begging for an SRM6 and 4 MPL or SPL.

Also - if you upgrade to the Rage pack for the Enforcer, you get quite a few more extras, the Firestarters big brother and two XL250s.

Edited by Ovion, 25 October 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[juxstapo]

I did not realize that. And I've already ground up the cash and sunk it on a 250xl.. (Of course 2 more won't hurt at all). Thanks for the info Ovion, and thanks for giving the topic serious consideration and a well thought response.

[IllCaesar]

If we get severely limited CW drop weights for whatever reason (idea: opt-in weekend challenge where you only get like 150 tons to work with) I'm sure that the Panther will have a place in CW. While having most of its ordinance in an arm makes it vulnerable, moving at 127 KPH, that shield arm would manage well circling enemies (circle around the enemy by going counter-clockwise) and I'm quite sure that quirks will make it do some things with its ordinance that nothing else 35-tons or lower will be able to do. Pug drops, it'll be used probably about as much as the Jenner is used now. Its unlikely to fit in comp with those hardpoints and that engine rating cap, but like all mechs, you can do something well with it if you know what you're doing. I look forward to see what people do with it, I don't look forward to me trying it out and getting my butt kicked by Firestarters x.x

[MonkeyCheese]

Well I have been driving an erppc raven since the closed beta days as well as a gauss raven before the gauss nerfs as well as my much loved ac20 raven that goes 99kph forever and I have had zero problems with my kitfoxes

so I got both the mist lynx pack and the panther pack as I know well that going between 99kph and 124kph is no problem at all and I know that my kitfox builds and my raven builds that dont have ecm have zero problems.

With these kinds of light mechs you just have to have good situational awareness amd know when is the right time to commit or to withdraw from a confrontation with the enemy.

It has already been said but the main problem is picking the right loadout for you with the limited tonnage unless you want to go the xl195 ac20 raven style kinda build, saying that I might just try one of my dual ppc builds from my ravens given the panther should get ppc quirks.

[Elizander]

I will be giving it a try. I'm hoping for some ER PPC Velocity quirks.

Edited by Elizander, 27 October 2014 - 08:38 AM.

[Myke Pantera]

I will...

I've been playing a RVN-2X without Speed Tweak these days, which runs precisely at the same speed as the Panther with Speed Tweak, and i am doing just fine with it. The Panther will have better hitboxes, jump jets and probably good quirks for large energy weapons, so i don't see a reason as to why the Panther cannot be a viable mech. It won't be able to assassinate as good as firestarters or jenners, but it will be the best light sniper platform due to reasonable speed (for that role), JJ and (hopefully) good quirks.

Edited by Myke Pantera, 28 October 2014 - 04:24 AM.

[Bront]

The 2 AMS 10K will have a place with lance support.

My biggest complaint is that all 3 of them are E in one arm, and M in the CT, making the dual AMS the only really unique variant. Fortunately, that's the bonus mech, as it's the one I have my eye on.

Other problems are similar to the Commando and Firestarter, the arms will soak up 4 extra crit slots due to hands. It may not be FF friendly.

Quirks will help, as I'm sure the arm will probably have extra armor. PPC quirks will help as well if you want to run a PPC on it. I had theory crafted a 2 MPL, 2 SRM4, 2 AMS Panther that looked potentially interesting as an assault escort, though at that speed it's missing a lot of firepower.

I still think it will have a place on the field, and it looks more interesting than the Locust did.

[Cold Cash]

Besides the weapon placement issues, ive always run my raven 3L at 130 speed as a sniper/harasser so the speed is fine to me(though the lack of ecm means even more careful play).

I think like many have said in the forums the weapon loadout(alpha) is quite high which means you should treat it more like the adder(only its better jj) and run it as a sniper/harasser, with that alpha potential it should be getting some good killshots.

I will probably run them as ppc/ double LL/Lpulse brawler builds for my 3.

[Aleski]

What's wrong with the IS lights mechs pilot?

The Kitfox is a support mech, 106 KPH, and i often made 600+ damages.
Same speed for the adder and without JJ, great crit seeker and finisher.
They are both very slow and great mechs if you use them well.

The panther will have JJ, 127 KPH, it's going to be a very good light. You will just never going alone, you're not a dual ER-LL Raven or something like this. You will have to stick with fat guys and focus fire with them, make the killing blow in a brawl to help your team mates, etc... Or maybe stay far from the battle and sniping guys. It's a completely different role for a light mech. If you don't like this playstyle, don't say it's going to suck because it will be slow. Stop QQing for anything just because you were want a quick IS light. You don't like slow light? Good!!! Take a Jenner-Locust-Spider-Firestarter and enjoy.

Many Raven pilot have decent builds with 255XL and very good matches.

I'm more than happy to have a new light mech of the IS who is very different of the other in his role on the battlefield and playstyle.

See you on battlefield, mechwarriors!

[Ovion]

Ay, I'm looking forward to my Panther, it'll be an interesting ride.
The Enforcer should be pretty fun too tbh.

Not sure if I give a damn about the bigger two, but I may get them anyway just for the exponentially biger rewards pack.

[Darwins Dog]

I really wonder how the panther will distinguish itself.

The JR7-D can do any loadout from any of the Panther chasses (except for the 2xAMS on the PNT-10K).

I've always liked the panther myself, so I hope they come up with something. Perhaps they will have big PPC bonuses or something.

[Ovion]

Well, if we compare them:

Quote

PNT-10K - 2E, 2M, 2AMS, 8JJ, 250Rated
(Stock = PPC, SRM4 w/ Artemis, 4JJ, STD140, Endo)

PNT-8Z - 3E, 2M, 1AMS, 4JJ, 250Rated
(Stock = LL, SRM4, 4JJ, STD140)

PNT-9R - 4E, 1M, 1AMS, 4JJ, 250Rated
(Stock = PPC, SRM4, 4JJ, STD140)

Quote

JR7-D - 4E, 2M, 1AMS, 5JJ, 300Rated
(Stock = 4ML, SRM4, 5JJ, STD245)

JR7-F - 6E, 1AMS, 5JJ, 300Rated
(Stock = 4ML 5JJ, STD245)

JR7-K - 4E, 1M, 1AMS, 5JJ, 300Rated
(Stock = 4ML, SRM4, 5JJ, STD245)

So what we can see here is, oh man is the Jenner boring.

Yes it has a better engine cap, and yes it can do most things the Panther can anyway.

However, there's a little more variety in the Panther variants (not much, but still), and it's a 'humanoid' mech, which traditionally has better hit boxes than the 'bugs'.

Additionally, the lower engine cap means you're forced to have more weight available, meaning you'll see Panthers which tend to hit harder, or for longer than the Jenner.

A twin Large Pulse Laser Panther isn't an unreasonable proposition for example.
Twin (ER)LL is going to be pretty common too I bet.
And it's likely to have some PPC / (ER)L(P)L quirks that set it apart from the Jenner too.

[Darwins Dog]

Ovion, on 29 October 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

...

However, there's a little more variety in the Panther variants (not much, but still), and it's a 'humanoid' mech, which traditionally has better hit boxes than the 'bugs'.

...

PNT-10K - 2E, 2M, 2AMS, 8JJ, 250Rated
2 fewer E than the Jenner D, 1 more AMS, 3 more JJ (is there really a difference between 5 and 8?)

PNT-8Z - 3E, 2M, 1AMS, 4JJ, 250Rated
1 less E, 1 less JJ

PNT-9R - 4E, 1M, 1AMS, 4JJ, 250Rated
1 less M, 1 less JJ

All have 50 less max engine rating too.

I guess you could call that variety, since they are all worse than a jenner in a different way. We'll see when it comes out, since mechs never work the same in game as on paper. Your point about hitboxes is a good one though. The jenner's CT can easily be hit from orbit. I just get annoyed when a mech has no apparent advantages over another.

[Ovion]

I get what you mean.

I think the main one will be hitboxes, and something I completely forgot: Arms.
It has Lower Arm Actuators so it can moves those arms, rather than being torso locked.

And I did say here wasn't much more variation.
Both are effectively just one (maybe two) chasis at the end of the day, just with a different name.
Which is a little boring, and may result in me selling off some variants once it's mastered (Like I will with my Jenners)

[Inflatable Fish]

Jux, I'll just say one thing.

there is a reason I bought *both* the Panther and the Enforcer.

[White Bear 84]

juxstapo, on 24 October 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

I have several friends who do quite well in Locusts, I have one who is simply amazing. I have another buddy who does impressive things with a Vindicator. So I know running what the meta would call "sub-par" chassis succesfully is a matter of skill and heart.

So, max engine is a 250, which gives us 115/127 kph (pre /post speed tweak). Two of the variants allow for several energy weapons in the arm, ala le'Griffin, but this will be one of my Lore-Correctish role playing chassis. So... PPC it is.

To begin preparing for this I've set up a FS9-H with a 235xl, which gives me 119 w/ tweak. Trying to get it close to a non-tweaked panther with the engines I have. Armament is a single ER-PPC. Fill the difference with DHS. Granted this fails to simulate the SRM rack, but there's a high chance I would strip it for more cooling anyway, regardless I'd much rather use a Firestarter as a placebo PTR than a Jenner; height, build, lower arm actuators.

I'm saving my pennies for a 250xl and an ER-PPC cooldown module. Radar Derp is a must-have on almost any chassis for me. Part of me dug the idea of Advanced zoom on a sniper-esque machine, but I think, slots permitting I'll be going seismic instead.

Who else has been looking forward to the Panther very muchly?

I think this mech is going to be a beauty. Interesting to see what its hitboxes are like though - will it be blessed with the lagshield of the spider, or cursed with the size of the Firestarter?

Interesting thread to start up, love the builds that have been suggested - it really does sound like it would be a fun mech. I'm now just waiting to get paid so I can order them all!

p.s. re:advanced zoon - I tried using it on my gausscat, but in the end found I was being too mobile to really use it, so I just used my goggle vision to squint in and get leet aim skills. (In all seriousness, training like this does improve accuracy!) On another note, who are these player you are talking of and where can I steal their souls?

Any mech can be good in the right hands! Some people just really excel at one/handful of mechs.. ..I for one know a few players I like to avoid when they are in certain mechs.

[Pezzer]

I think the low-tonnage mechs from this pack are going to be really fun. The Enforcer is one of the few mechs that I like the original TT art of, and the Panther will be a change of pace. Panther meta is going to be incredibly predictable thanks to it's boring variants, however.

PNT-10K: Has the most JJs, will probably become a 2ERLL boat. Some players will cram in a LRM5 and shave some JJs.
PNT-8Z: PPC, 2ML, 2SRM2 or 3MPL 2SRM6
PNT-8R: I would play this one as a support mech. LRM10, TAG, and backup weapons. Will make for an awesome rapid-redeployment TAG and LRM set. Meta will probably be 1ERLL 3ML SRM4.

Forgot to mention, I also really like the Enforcer's TT fluff. It's reminds me so much of real-life weapons and vehicles that soldiers improvised and "made do" with, since the AC/5 had a tendency to jam and a MechWarrior would learn in the field how to unjam it with an epic robot arm chestbump. Soldiers carrying the M60 in Vietnam learned to quickly unscrew their overheated barrels and jerk the entire weapon forward to clear it instead of taking the time to pull the barrel out and THEN replace it with a new one. Reminds me of this and many other famous stories of soldiers learning how to take shortcuts to make their machines work in the field.

Edited by Pezzer, 29 October 2014 - 06:17 PM.