724 replies to this topic

[Assiah]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

I'm making 80,000-180,000 cbills a match without any premium just fine...I don't see what the problem is with how it is right now.


Granted, I rarely have games where I get less than 300 damage (like when getting hit by 5 arty strikes kinda makes it difficult), but still.

that makes your average 130k a match (roughly, I'd need more data to give an accurate number), that means you need 100 games to make 13 mil, which is the starting price of many high end mechs, before upgrades. As such if you want to pick up the summoner at 14 mil a pop, you will need to plug in 300+ games which is roughly 50 hours of game play. This is the problem, that amount of time sink is absurd. A time frame closer to 30-35 hours (2-3 weekends of play) should be what we are shooting for.

[ApolloKaras]

KraftySOT, on 26 October 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

I agree with this.

Im not saying that 400k cbills in my Raven 3L is WAD (working as designed)...im just saying I read the patch notes, realized you could do that, and things are actually better in cbills than they were before.

And they werent even bad before. I was making oodles. Ive got my Richer Than Blake achievement. Im the 1%. I got there for free.

That seems...off? My objective self wants to say thats too much money. Im getting way more bang for my non existant dollar than I should. But im not about to complain about that. I dont think people should be collecting them all like Pokemon either.

But the fact is that with some effort and time, you can. If you say you cant...youre doing it wrong.



Yeah him and everyone else in that frozen hellscape of MacArthurs making.

And exactly. Why argue. Why argue with the payouts. Play, enjoy yourself. If its not enjoyable, try getting into the meta, farming the new rewards. Actively TRY and do something about it, before you throw up your hands and pray for rain.

This isnt some Founder or Gold Mech holder telling you people this.

Im a Freeloader. Im not proud, but im not ashamed of that fact. Im not unique either.

The grind is what you make of it, and how you approach it. If you want more cbills you need to make more cbills. Im the person this thread is talking about.

I was the new player a year ago. I was frustrated when I bought a Hunchie as my first mech and it was terrible. I got irked that I had to figure out the meta in the forums, discovered the games all messed up, theres unexplained ghost heat, theres nerfs all over the place, #saveMWO is going on when I started playing seriously, the clans, 3pv...I had to take out my unskilled mechs against Meta-whales and lrmaggedons and magic jesus boxes. Ive fought up from Locusts to Ravens on to Wubshees and bought a DakkaWolf. Ive lulzed with 4 ac5s, and plastered and been plastered in Hexastalkers.

Thats what I contended with. And I stand here before you today, surviving that as a new player, a free to play player..sharing my experience. Ive seen the top of the mountain and I tell you friends it is good.

The grind is fine. Youre the problem (or your attitude/playstyle/choices/etc).

Its not condescending its just the truth.

This post cant get lost in the sea of angry

Good post.

[Mr Beefy]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

I should add though, I DO see a problem with the exorbitant prices for weapon modules.

Mech modules being expensive is fine, but forking up 3 million for every little upgrade for ML or streak SRM 2s is pretty...extravagant.

If weapon modules were, say, 1 million each, I bet folks wouldn't feel *quite* as much that there's not enough income.

would it help... sure, a start.. but that will not fix the core problem with the old and new system doesn't address for new and veteran players alike.

[Telmasa]

Assiah, on 26 October 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

that makes your average 130k a match (roughly, I'd need more data to give an accurate number), that means you need 100 games to make 13 mil, which is the starting price of many high end mechs, before upgrades. As such if you want to pick up the summoner at 14 mil a pop, you will need to plug in 300+ games which is roughly 50 hours of game play. This is the problem, that amount of time sink is absurd. A time frame closer to 30-35 hours (2-3 weekends of play) should be what we are shooting for.

Seems to me like that kind of grind is fairly normal...compared with the amount of games you have to play to get, say, tier 7+ tanks in World of Tanks, or say Tiger/IS-level tanks in War Thunder.

[Mr Beefy]

Saxie, on 26 October 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

This post cant get lost in the sea of angry

Good post.

Ummm na... not so much...

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Seems to me like that kind of grind is fairly normal...compared with the amount of games you have to play to get, say, tier 7+ tanks in World of Tanks, or say Tiger/IS-level tanks in War Thunder.

Yes... another WOT compare reply!!! OH Wait...we are in a MWO forum and discussing a very real concern of low earnings for all across the board helping to create exploiters, c-bill farmers, and many other team play issues. Thank you for not contributing to the topic

[White Bear 84]

Brody319, on 25 October 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

I break 200K on a win most of the time.
250K on fantastic matches.
I get 100K when I lose and my team does bad
130K on most matches.

I don't know why you are getting so low numbers even after the buff.

Not fulfilling the role warfare play style the rewards are targeted at?

Only last night got 250k from a loss, which was great fun... ...wins are always over 200k with between 2k and 3k XP. The current c-bill are glorious.

[Assiah]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Seems to me like that kind of grind is fairly normal...compared with the amount of games you have to play to get, say, tier 7+ tanks in World of Tanks, or say Tiger/IS-level tanks in War Thunder.

Again if you are trying to claim that WoT is a good game and should be a baseline, we are going to disagree. Again WoT is popular because it will run on just about anything, hell I think it can run on a tablet, making it very popular due to accessibility, not good game design.

If I plug 50 hours in any other free to play game (Planetside 2 or Rift for example) I will be far into my progression as a player. I wont try to claim I'll have achieved everything there is to do in those games by that point, but I will be very well established at 50 hours in. In MWO you are just getting started at 50 hours in.

Edited by Assiah, 26 October 2014 - 05:28 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

White Bear 84, on 26 October 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Not fulfilling the role warfare play style the rewards are targeted at?

Only last night got 250k from a loss, which was great fun... ...wins are always over 200k with between 2k and 3k XP. The current c-bill are glorious.

We are feeling ya......ah.... no we are not.

[Telmasa]

Mr Beefy, on 26 October 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

Ummm na... not so much...


Yes... another WOT compare reply!!! OH Wait...we are in a MWO forum and discussing a very real concern of low earnings for all across the board helping to create exploiters, c-bill farmers, and many other team play issues. Thank you for not contributing to the topic

Thank you for being an unconributive hypocritical troll.

I was comparing the grind he was describing to get a Summoner to that experienced in other, similar, MMO-vehicle-shooter games that easily fit within the same genre as MWO, to make the point that 100 games for a summoner isn't all that exorbitant.

Please think before your next post.

Assiah, on 26 October 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Again if you are trying to claim that WoT is a good game and should be a baseline, we are going to disagree. Again WoT is popular because it will run on just about anything, hell I think it can run on a tablet, making it very popular due to accessibility, not good game design.

If I plug 50 hours in any other free to play game (Planetside 2 or Rift for example) I will be far into my progression as a player. I wont try to claim I'll have achieved everything there is to do in those games by that point, but I will be very well established at 50 hours in. In MWO you are just getting started at 50 hours in.

Definitely not saying WoT is a good game, there's a reason I quit after 3+ years struggling against the RNG gods. (and it definitely doesn't just run on anything)

The ONLY reason I brought it up, along with War Thunder, is to express what the "normal" feel of a grind is like in other games that fit within the same genre as MWO, and that to me, it feels comparable enough to not be that big of an issue.

If you spend 50 hours playing light mechs, I'd be surprised to see you not have at least the basics on 2 variants finished...and there's always the trial mechs, too.

Edited by Telmasa, 26 October 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[Dahnyol]

White Bear 84, on 26 October 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Not fulfilling the role warfare play style the rewards are targeted at?

Only last night got 250k from a loss, which was great fun... ...wins are always over 200k with between 2k and 3k XP. The current c-bill are glorious.

I love these posts.

"Bro check out my epeen, see learn2play dawg. Keep the game as it, we like our peak population 1000 players"

[Assiah]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Thank you for being an unconributive hypocritical troll.

I was comparing the grind he was describing to get a Summoner to that experienced in other, similar, MMO-vehicle-shooter games that easily fit within the same genre as MWO, to make the point that 100 games for a summoner isn't all that exorbitant.

Please think before your next post.

yeah I'm going to have to side with you on this, we get nowhere if we just sit back and insult the opposition. I want to have a discussion, not a mud slinging match, and far too many are trying to troll on both sides in order to get likes from their side.

To those backing up your statements with facts, making reasoned arguments, and not trying to be obnoxious and trolly, I thank you, even if I don't agree with you.

[Mr Beefy]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Thank you for being an unconributive hypocritical troll.

I was comparing the grind he was describing to get a Summoner to that experienced in other, similar, MMO-vehicle-shooter games that easily fit within the same genre as MWO, to make the point that 100 games for a summoner isn't all that exorbitant.

Please think before your next post.

No need to re-think what I stated.... Your point is not valid if your only goal is to compare two very bad F2P models. Please rethink your post, before you just throw up another troll reply.

We hear you, and a larger number here do not agree with what you have said, and you haven't made any points to sway your argument any further other then the same three that keep saying the same over and over. We are not buying it...

[Mr Beefy]

Assiah, on 26 October 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

yeah I'm going to have to side with you on this, we get nowhere if we just sit back and insult the opposition. I want to have a discussion, not a mud slinging match, and far too many are trying to troll on both sides in order to get likes from their side.

To those backing up your statements with facts, making reasoned arguments, and not trying to be obnoxious and trolly, I thank you, even if I don't agree with you.

Assiah, I am not concerned with likes at all. I was here when you took a break, you have seen some of the things stated towards us that truly are concerned with this model. We have a very valid concern and it is backed by some very interesting facts. I honestly do not think I have seen one post here from those opposed yet, that truly tries to address the real issue and problems with the lack of earnings. I have endured being called a Dem. supporter....and many other remarks. lol

I am trying to stay on topic, and be civil, but I have seen these same posters in other forum post regarding good, or lack of pay, and they just keep saying the same things over and over. Problem is, most of it is not on the topic of the given thread they are posting on, just to further their argument, and clutter the topic with side issues.

I am trying here.... it is more than I can say for some.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 26 October 2014 - 05:51 PM.

[Assiah]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Definitely not saying WoT is a good game, there's a reason I quit after 3+ years struggling against the RNG gods. (and it definitely doesn't just run on anything)

The ONLY reason I brought it up, along with War Thunder, is to express what the "normal" feel of a grind is like in other games that fit within the same genre as MWO, and that to me, it feels comparable enough to not be that big of an issue.

If you spend 50 hours playing light mechs, I'd be surprised to see you not have at least the basics on 2 variants finished...and there's always the trial mechs, too.

Thats the thing, you are talking about just getting the basics on 2 mechs done in 50 hours, if I log 50 hours in PS2 right now, I could be close to finishing up a vehicle or class by the end of it possible more depending on how well me and my faction are doing, in Rift I would be getting close to level cap. For me these are far more tangible rewards than what you get in MWO. I understand that many compare MWO to WoT, and have for a very long time, which is understandable as PGI tried to rip wholesale from them. But taking a bad mechanic from one game and introducing it into another does not make it good. That long grind was bad in WoT and its bad in MWO.

I'm not advocating for a removal of the grind, because if PGI just hands us mechs we will not put a high value on them, but I currently feel the mechs are not worth the time it takes to reach them.

[Telmasa]

By your same logic, I see nothing at all that says "grinds should be shorter and easier here than any other game with similarities to this one".

In fact, experience-wise, the grind is considerably way less here.

As I originally stated, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way things are now, and see no reason to change my opinion. The only bone I'll throw is to what I already mentioned about expensive mech-weapon-upgrade-modules.

Edited by Telmasa, 26 October 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[Assiah]

Mr Beefy, on 26 October 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

Assiah, I am not concerned with likes at all. I was here when you took a break, you have seen some of the things stated towards us that truly are concerned with this model. We have a very valid concern and it is backed by some very interesting facts. I honestly do not think I have seen one post here from those opposed yet, that truly tries to address the real issue and problems with the lack of earnings. I have endured being called a Dem. supporter....and many other remarks. lol

I am trying to stay on topic, and be civil, but I have seem these same posters in other forum post regarding good, or lack of pay, and they just keep saying the same things over and over. Problem is, most of it is not on the topic of the given thread they are posting on, just to further their argument, and clutter the topic with side issues.

I am trying here.... it is more than I can say for some.

I appreciate you trying, stiff upper lip and all that. But if you let the trolls bring you down to the level of name calling and cheeky insults, they win, and the discussion dies. So if you need to, take a break and play some MWO or something else, the thread will still be here when you get back.

[Assiah]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

By your same logic, I see nothing at all that says "grinds should be shorter and easier here than any other game with similarities to this one".

In fact, experience-wise, the grind is considerably way less here.

As I originally stated, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way things are now, and see no reason to change my opinion. The only bone I'll throw is to what I already mentioned about expensive mech-weapon-upgrade-modules.

very well, we might just have to agree to disagree here. There really is no set standard for much grinding a game should have, it is very subjective and based on personal opinion. I hold my opinion that it takes to long from my own experiences and the fact I've had several friends turn away from this game due to the grind but these same friends are happy to grind away in these other games I've mentioned. As such I hold my opinion that we don't get enough reward for the time spent.

Edited by Assiah, 26 October 2014 - 05:53 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Dahnyol, on 26 October 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

I love these posts.

"Bro check out my epeen, see learn2play dawg. Keep the game as it, we like our peak population 1000 players"

You want to compare e-peen? Im not sure now is the time or the place and I do have better things to do...

Of course if you want to add something constructive... ...by all means feel free to post a constructive reply...

[Mr Beefy]

Assiah, on 26 October 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

I appreciate you trying, stiff upper lip and all that. But if you let the trolls bring you down to the level of name calling and cheeky insults, they win, and the discussion dies. So if you need to, take a break and play some MWO or something else, the thread will still be here when you get back.

ha ha... I hear ya, just 11 pages more to read though when I get back.

[Mr Beefy]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

By your same logic, I see nothing at all that says "grinds should be shorter and easier here than any other game with similarities to this one".

In fact, experience-wise, the grind is considerably way less here.

As I originally stated, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way things are now, and see no reason to change my opinion. The only bone I'll throw is to what I already mentioned about expensive mech-weapon-upgrade-modules.

Why would that be a bone to throw? It is a valid concern...and one of the many with the model right now. If they keep the high prices on it, but unlock it for all mechs in your bay, I could understand that.

If they lower the price down to lets say clan target computer prices, level 80-100K, all mechs are not unlocked I am fine with that too. It seems reasonable and with the pay earnings we have now, it would be a step in the right direction to help new and veterans alike. Everything seems stacked in such a way that is not going to help bring in or even keep players around. The others that don't farm or exploit the "ways PGI" gives us to earn, suffer even if they are playing another way that does in fact help their team win. Others become toxic and their style of play goes to the C-bill lust problem, by cutting their teams neck if need be to get the most c-bills. This is a problem and the core comes down to the painful grind and lack of earnings VS. time spent on this game.

I am sorry if you felt I was trolling your remark, I guess I was wrong about not one valid reply from the other side that would help solve the issue at hand. In fact, I think I did like the post you said that in prior pages of replies, and thought it was a good start for sure in my reply to it before. Thank you for being one of the only ones for trying to post something up other then, "L2P bro... look at how I do it, you need to do better, like me" . It is appreciated

Edited by Mr Beefy, 26 October 2014 - 06:10 PM.