724 replies to this topic

[Arkbird_]

Lord de Seis, on 26 October 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

I dunno what you are doing wrong but with the new system I am making the same as I always was and making way more on really good games. Always making 200k with hero mechs and above 300k on really good games.

Lord de Seis, on 26 October 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

If you activated a month of premium time you would easily be making 200-250k a match, which isn't to bad. I play only 2-3 hours a night and can easily make 2 mil a night, I think that is decent. Over the course of a week you could buy a IS assault mech and customize it.

Like it or not PGI needs to fund the game, premium time is best solution to do that and they give plenty of options for you to activate them for varying time periods. I would love to make more cbills believe me, but there is a reality that they pay for things to keep the game going.

I thought most of this games money came from mech packs not premium time. I might be wrong but I'm quite sure the clan invasion brought a lot more players in than any premium time sale ever did.

You said "If you activated a month of premium time you would easily be making 200-250k a match, which isn't to bad" I also assume you mean to drop in a hero mech as well as prior post says you use hero mechs.

If i have to have both premium time and play hero mechs all day to get "not too bad" earnings then earnings are WAY too low. Those bonuses should give you GREAT earnings to grant incentive to buy it. You basically admitted you get "not too bad" earnings while pumping in considerable money into the game ... That is not a good or healthy prerequisite for the game as a whole as many players do not bother with these things and only the people putting considerable money in will get a "not too bad" income as you say. New players will still leave after 25 games no matter how much you get from premium time and hero mechs as they do not have those or the skill to get a reasonable income worth their time.

Edited by PV Phoenix, 26 October 2014 - 10:24 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

Assiah, on 26 October 2014 - 10:08 PM, said:

I don't think we disagree on the idea of how PT and the free to play model work, but there is a very clear disconnect we are having on what constitutes a long but doable grind vs a grind that takes far too long. As I said earlier in the thread, I understand that that is subjective and what seems like a reasonable grind to you might not seem like a reasonable grind to me. Currently I feel it is unreasonable, I also feel that increased payouts would actually help this game make more money, not less. Again a free/new player that can earn some mechs quickly will start to consider buying MC for mechbays and cockpit swag, with a slow grind they are more inclined to not consider the mechbays because it would take them too long to fill them.

I'm not advocating for the removal of the grind, I'm advocating for the devs to consider lessening the grind. If you disagree, that's fine, this is after all a subjective opinion based issue, and we are not all going to agree. I do thank you however for not disagreeing in a rude and disruptive manner.

Funny thing is I was a player that was gonna take advantage of all that "entertainment" that happened for me in the 80% of the 100+ drops I played last event to try to help secure the largest sale price I could on mech bays for my clans. I was going to spend money on MC to stock up on them since I don't believe the 23 I have now will be enough.

After the response I got from many players and the complete lack of team play over the event in regard to many dropping in on matches of a given game mode, and on purpose blowing the primary objective of that game mode, simply so they could get the reward for kills Vs. 20 points instead of 10 for all of us applied towards the event and sale price. Many of them would chat it up, saying sorry, "I need c-bills to buy stuff. Kills pay more too bad!" This very high long painful grind we have now and general lack of earnings, seems to not only be a leading cause for bad team play, it brings out exploiters and farmers. When challenges are happening it gets even worse.

When the new rewards system hit, I held off from buying MC for the extra bays right now even though they was 45%, because to grind out of heavies, and assaults for clans is going to take forever! Many players feel the same way about this issue. I am going a step further with my findings in game, it is one of the largest reason's for bad game play in game. I consider bad game play, there are many forms of it though, but the worst is when you feel like a games pay out model turns players into mindless zombies that start doing whatever pays the very best, even if it means blowing the primary objective in a given match game mode.

If this stays this way, how will CW play out? One big grind fest where many in the player base will not focus on the important objectives and the team play it will take to obtain completing them, but more on "what is the next system I can exploit to get the most c-bills and XP." This is a major concern to me at least, and the other concern of getting new players, and keeping them so they will want to spend money on this game should be a concern to PGI as well. IMO, the current pay model will not sustain both, where as the suggested fix in other replies in this thread by me will.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 26 October 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[Mystere]

Mr Beefy, on 26 October 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

I m I just taking you wrong here, or are you saying that the fact that no one else does this a bad thing? If you mean it that way, I say, so what if no others do it that way, PGI could change some things up and show them how it should be done.

Is it bold of me to say that is the way it should be done? Maybe..... but is it truly a good way to do it, reasonable, fair, and your player base will be more willing to buy it, wanting to buy it? I would say hell yes it is.... It creates the desire to do it, and that is worth more then trying to punish you into buying it. One way feels good, the other BAD..... Could it really be this simple, human nature 101?

http://youtu.be/nApazedQ7-E

The reason I am asking is because if no one is doing it, then there may be a very good reason for not doing so. If it was really a good idea, then former subscription-based MMOs could have gone this route instead of going straight to F2P. But if no one went this route ...

If someone did go this route, then it would be very interesting to find out how successful they were. And if they did try and failed, a postmortem analysis of why might provide some very good insights.

Edited by Mystere, 26 October 2014 - 10:46 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

Mystere, on 26 October 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

The reason I am asking is because if no one is doing it, then there may be a very good reason for not doing so. If it was really a good idea, then former subscription-based MMOs could have gone this route instead of going straight to F2P. But if no one went this route ...

If someone did go this route, then it would be very interesting to find out how successful they were. And if they did try and failed, a postmortem analysis of why might provide some very good insights.

Well lets say PGI tried this route for from now till Jan. 1'st as a test just to see how it plays out. What do they have to loose? What I am trying to bring to light is the more important question, IMO, the one they should really consider hard after some of the valid opinions many stated on this thread, what do they have to gain from this?

2 or three months of 30-50% earnings boost time for all, increase the primary objectives rewards up to 75-100k and 400-500xp for taking the base or cap win, or making other primary objectives in a given match worth more as a added bonus on top of the earnings increase, to make it the first thing on all players minds given the type of match mode we drop into, this will not hurt PGI's Bank account. IMO, and many on here feel the same regarding it will bring them more money from the what many guess is a pretty thin player base right now, but also brings in much needed new players that will want to spend money on things like, mech bays, colors, camo, patterns, dash board bling, war horns....

I also believe it will lessen some of the pressure on them from this player base, and give them some room to work and make changes they feel need to be made with out such a uproar every time they make a tweek to something. We will be to busy playing the game and having fun to notice the smaller things until they can sort it out. This will heal some of the toxic play style and counter productive tail chasing and wasted time and resources on less important issues, and let them focus on other main concerns. I could be 100% off with my reasoning, but it just seems to be a much more productive way to fix so many issues that are present in the game and on the forums right now with minimal effort and time on their end.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 26 October 2014 - 11:04 PM.

[Arkbird_]

Mystere, on 26 October 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

The reason I am asking is because if no one is doing it, then there may be a very good reason for not doing so. If it was really a good idea, then former subscription-based MMOs could have gone this route instead of going straight to F2P. But if no one went this route ...

If someone did go this route, then it would be very interesting to find out how successful they were. And if they did try and failed, a postmortem analysis of why might provide some very good insights.

You may notice that there are a lot of threads going around right now about the cbill earnings being cut but far fewer about the XP which also took a hit?

I have a rather obvious and promising feature that helps and I believe is preventing that. The Xp for win of the day. I would be willing to bet if this feature were put on cbills as well these threads would disappear virtually overnight.

In this case having more mechs will always solve your cbill problem since on wins most people break 100k so guaranteeing 200k on every first win on a mech would do wonders. New players will finally have an incentive to get more mech bays and stick around!

This would make mechbays 10x more appealing. A new player that is getting good at the game and has won all 4 games on his 4 mechs for the night, but still wants the boost, just might make that first purchase of MC to get him hooked on the game solely on this feature alone. No new game modes needed, no hero mechs, and with little cost to him.

Heck the League of Legends win of the day is what got me into that game. I have spent 4X as much on LOL compared to MWO solely on this feature as it guarantees I play one game EVERY night. MWO has no system for that. Even if MWO had just ONE win of the day with double cbills or something I would probably have spent much more on this game (MW is much more established for me then league of legends as I've been playing MW2 since i was 6) league of legends had a better system and thus got better pay.

You want a system other similar games use? There's one for you right there. 1 cbill win of the day for 150k every night guaranteed. Only a little decent play required. (you have to win after all) Lots of new players will not pass that up. Stolen right from the most profitable game on the PC. No innovation required.

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 26 October 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

The reason I am asking is because if no one is doing it, then there may be a very good reason for not doing so. If it was really a good idea, then former subscription-based MMOs could have gone this route instead of going straight to F2P. But if no one went this route ...

If someone did go this route, then it would be very interesting to find out how successful they were. And if they did try and failed, a postmortem analysis of why might provide some very good insights.

The fundamental issue is the perception of P2W. Too much bonus for cash creates that impression. So the entire F2P model tends to hamstring itself that way; MW:O has the potential to get around that very subtly - limited mech bays. Since you need 3 mechs to get elite/master/double basics this will inherently create churn for the pure F2P players in their mechs (sold at a painful loss) to accomplish what people who pay cash can do with multiple bays.

The trick isn't to make premium time more profitable but to make churning mechs a bit easier. This functionally adds value to buying mech bays and bonus cbill/xp mechs because you can more easily switch 'favorites'. At the current steep expense for mechs you really can't. I'll be sticking to the mechs I currently have for the forseeable future. I'll probably buy the reinforcement pack for the IS mechs, depending on what they look like but I don't feel pressured to by any stretch - the Enforcer will probably be nice but the others? Meh. We'll see. I learned my lesson with the Phoenix Pack.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mr Beefy, on 26 October 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Yet another pointless reply, spewing forth ideas that not one person here has asked for.... except you.

Drama queens are so funny... veterans and new players not wanting to grind 80+ hours for three chassis isn't Entitlement.... its a full time job! Its painful and counter productive to ALL the player base, new and veteran alike. You and others can dismiss it all you want, but many games we all drop, we see the toxic effects it has on this player base. Your Idea of what Entitlement is just as painful and wrong as the very painful grind we all face right now. This is the Topic, and the Core problem many here are trying to relay to PGI by providing valid points and information. NOT by whining and being drama queens....

Further more, when you post a reply making such a claim of Entitlement regarding the numbers that others have come up with regarding the painful grind, it looks as if you should open up a sweat shop in China making NiKe products, Jordans, Apple products and pay your staff of workers $3.00 dollars a day for a 8-14 hour shift. Then you can set up a housing area for them.... Charge them 3 times the amount you are paying them for their slave wage... that way, you make a killing, and they are always in your debt. God forbid the workers ever speak up and try to change the system of Entitlement they are under.... I know right, some people just want everything for free!!!! Burn them, flame them.... They are looking for a free ride!

80 hours to purchase one 6,000,000 C-Bill War Machine? Is fast. I played for a 6-9 months in only an Atlas-D-DC. If I keep doing well in my Atlas-S, I won't need another Mech to play the game and. have. fun.

As for the rest of your post... I'm the drama queen? Did you read the over the top idiocy you compared my game opinion with? I have 4 accounts, I have mastered Mechs in all of them. 2 Have no money spent. The grind in this game is not long, unless you are here to be a collector, and this isn't Poke'mon, you don't have to have em all to have fun.

[The Boz]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

this isn't Poke'mon, you don't have to have em all to have fun.

I hope you don't intend on playing CW. Or inviting any new players to play CW with you.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 27 October 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

I hope you don't intend on playing CW. Or inviting any new players to play CW with you.

I intend on owning CW, and I already invited all the people who I think would like this game.

[The Boz]

Have you told them that they need to invest into 720 tons of mech and about 150 tons of weapons and engines and modules if they plan on being something other than fodder?

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Mystere, on 26 October 2014 - 09:13 PM, said:

Is there any game out there that does this? I am asking because none of the past subscription-based MMOs that I played did this.

Right off the top of my head Marvel Heroes makes bank selling boosts (experience potions, special/rare item find potions, etc) and they don't even count down unless you're in a combat zone. If you are in a hub or offline they do not count down.

MWO is the only F2P game I know of that has its boosts constantly count down whether you're playing or not.

e: Marvel Heroes even has a similar business model, there really isn't a lot of 'content' (story mode/maps) and they make their money by releasing new heroes (/mechs) monthly with ancillary costume options (camo/pain/cockpit items) and stash space (mechbays). They are booming over there, because their prices are cheap compared to MWO - typically the new hero pack will be $15-18 and get you the hero, a couple changes of costume, a stash tab and a bunch of boosts. Meanwhile the MWO equivalent is ~$30 for a hero by itself.

Edited by Alexander MacTaggart, 27 October 2014 - 04:59 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 27 October 2014 - 04:51 AM, said:

Have you told them that they need to invest into 720 tons of mech and about 150 tons of weapons and engines and modules if they plan on being something other than fodder?

They Played Table top with me... They know what it takes to build up a Mech from stock to what they want!

AND how stupid it is to have to master 3 mechs at a time. Still I had mastered quite a few Mechs over my 3 years playing this Demo, and what do I have to show for it? Do we have a Planet Mallanholme yet? You think the grind is bad here you never ran a Merc Command on my table. There was a logistics portion that the CO had to go over with me (the GM) when he wanted to expand his command or upgrade salvage, or cannibalize usable equipment from hulks on the field. They took 3 years to build from 3 companies to 3 Regements And you are telling me players are whining cause of 3 weeks to Master A Battlemaster?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 October 2014 - 05:13 AM.

[mania3c]

Joseph...you are still missing the point..no matter how many arguments you will throw around...new players are just not sticking.. I can't say for everyone..but all my friends who left the game..left it because of grind,,and I did the same..it doesn't matter how you feel...it's about players who would love to play this game..but they are not..and honestly..they feel..mostly..that grind is just absurd..and I agree.

[Joseph Mallan]

mania3c, on 27 October 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Joseph...you are still missing the point..no matter how many arguments you will throw around...new players are just not sticking.. I can't say for everyone..but all my friends who left the game..left it because of grind,,and I did the same..it doesn't matter how you feel...it's about players who would love to play this game..but they are not..and honestly..they feel..mostly..that grind is just absurd..and I agree.

They likely left it more cause they got nothing for the grind. What factories did you claim? You are not playing the game right now and neither did your friends. I want more out of the game, but once you have all the toys and still you have nothing to show for all the effort what then? There is no real pay off cause the game is not fully released. More money won't change that fact. I have all the mechs I want for now, So what need is there for more money In fact I have MORE Mechs than I want!

The money is fine as it is now, and that is an improvement over what it was before. I make between 90-360K on a Win and from 20- 164K on a loss. That's a good range of winnings depending on how well I play.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 October 2014 - 05:19 AM.

[mania3c]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

They likely left it more cause they got nothing for the grind. What factories did you claim? You are not playing the game right now and neither did your friends. I want more out of the game, but once you have all the toys and still you have nothing to show for all the effort what then? There is no real pay off cause the game is not fully released. More money won't change that fact. I have all the mechs I want for now, So what need is there for more money In fact I have MORE Mechs than I want!

The money is fine as it is now, and that is an improvement over what it was before.

I was plying since 2012..and I was actively spending real money..for colors..for camos...we were group of friends playing together.. I brought them there...they never ever played any mechwarrior game..I played all, I showed them this one..and it was awesome..suddenly..after one patch..earnings went to toilet..and we all stopped playing one by one..so it wasn't about we can't get anything for our grind..the grind is just that bad that it sucked fun from the game..

[Joseph Mallan]

I have been through all those economies as well. I often have less than 1Million C-bills (866k right now in fact), I spent close to if not over $1,000 on the same things. I am making more money now than I was before, and I didn't complain then, so why should I want more money in my pocket change again?

I have bought 3 Modules for my Mechs at 3 Mill a peace since this patch. Money is not scarce it has switched how it is earned. and is rewarding those who fight together more than soloists.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 October 2014 - 05:27 AM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

They likely left it more cause they got nothing for the grind. What factories did you claim? You are not playing the game right now and neither did your friends. I want more out of the game, but once you have all the toys and still you have nothing to show for all the effort what then? There is no real pay off cause the game is not fully released. More money won't change that fact. I have all the mechs I want for now, So what need is there for more money In fact I have MORE Mechs than I want!

The money is fine as it is now, and that is an improvement over what it was before. I make between 90-360K on a Win and from 20- 164K on a loss. That's a good range of winnings depending on how well I play.

PGI is taking money for the game; the game has been released.

Also this is the third (at least) time income has been lowered, so "the money is fine" doesn't hold water.

[mania3c]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

I have been through all those economies as well. I often have less than 1Million C-bills (866k right now in fact), I spent close to if not over $1,000 on the same things. I am making more money now than I was before, and I didn't complain then, so why should I want more money in my pocket change again?

what i see is me me me me..honestly..today..in good win game.. I can top 190k..in average? 140k ..in loss? well..it's under 100k almost always..many times under 60k..so really my average earning is 100k per game ..honestly...what c-ER medium laser costs?

I understand..that there are people who are okey with earnings..but most people? are really not..

[Joseph Mallan]

mania3c, on 27 October 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

what i see is me me me me..honestly..today..in good win game.. I can top 190k..in average? 140k ..in loss? well..it's under 100k almost always..many times under 60k..so really my average earning is 100k per game ..honestly...what c-ER medium laser costs?

I understand..that there are people who are okey with earnings..but most people? are really not..

I never complained when I was making those kinds of numbers for the last 2 years, Now I 'm making better money cause I seem to play the way needed to. If it goes back to how it was you still won't hear me complain. I played just fine making 60k a match for 2 years. You don't need to replace broken equipment, you don't need more than 3 Mechs to to master a Mech. Once mastered you don't need another, At least till CW comes and we have a dropship.

What do you need the money for?

[mania3c]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

I never complained when I was making those kinds of numbers for the last 2 years, Now I 'm making better money cause I seem to play the way needed to. If it goes back to how it was you still won't hear me complain. I played just fine making 60k a match for 2 years. You don't need to replace broken equipment, you don't need more than 3 Mechs to to master a Mech. Once mastered you don't need another, At least till CW comes and we have a dropship.

What do you need the money for?

Still missing the point..

do you really believe this game is growing? that new players are sticking around? just ask around new players part of the forum..if you have friends who stopped playing..ask them..or just read the forum..it's fine you are okey with earnings.. there are many masochistic people playing video games..there are even players who are loving grinds..but..if you really don't want this game to die out..you should really reconsider your defensive standpoint toward current earnings

It's my experience..and I see I am not alone..just scrolling through this thread, I see many players have exactly same or very similar experience with the game..when earnings were higher..I had tons of fun, i was trying new toys and I was spending real money..earnings were lowered ..and I don't fight low earnings by buying new stuff with real money (playing more is out of the question for me..I just can't afford spent more time playing MWO)..I will fight grind by playing and paying something else..

but I am sure you really see that MWO needs new players..CW will not work without new blood properly ..we all know it.. PGI knows it..so can we just help them and point why players are just not sticking around???

Edited by mania3c, 27 October 2014 - 05:54 AM.