11 replies to this topic

[Wesxander]

I have found that taking ultra ac 20s for clans you get way more ammo than they should be getting. It's listing and giving like 35 rounds for ultra ac 20 per ton. My direwolf (stolen one that is (davin bondsman turned clan infiltrator traitor) is going into battle with around 225 ac 20's rounds. This is huge advantage way past the Innersphere. I know they don't get ultra ac 20s but they only get 7 rounds or so per standard ac 20.

I recommend nerfing the hell out of that. With 225 rounds all I have to worry about is heat displacement. It obliterates lights like they was nothing,yes, no more nursing the rounds for just the right shot because ammo is limited. With 225 rounds you cross my path in dark alley in brawling map you have had it. I think giving a ultra ac 20 = 35 shots per ton is very, very ,bad idea. I am using but also reporting it for discussion. I think its bug no one caught at least I hope it is.

[Telmasa]

Wesxander, on 26 October 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

I have found that taking ultra ac 20s for clans you get way more ammo than they should be getting. It's listing and giving like 35 rounds for ultra ac 20 per ton. My direwolf (stolen one that is (davin bondsman turned clan infiltrator traitor) is going into battle with around 225 ac 20's rounds. This is huge advantage way past the Innersphere. I know they don't get ultra ac 20s but they only get 7 rounds or so per standard ac 20.

I recommend nerfing the hell out of that. With 225 rounds all I have to worry about is heat displacement. It obliterates lights like they was nothing,yes, no more nursing the rounds for just the right shot because ammo is limited. With 225 rounds you cross my path in dark alley in brawling map you have had it. I think giving a ultra ac 20 = 35 shots per ton is very, very ,bad idea. I am using but also reporting it for discussion. I think its bug no one caught at least I hope it is.

That's not how it works.

Each "shot" does 4 damage, because all clan ultra-auto-cannons fire 5 shots per "click", as opposed to the inner sphere's UAC5 only firing 1 shot, like a normal AC that just has double-tap ability. (And I reckon the other UAC sizes for the IS will work the same way, if/when they eventually get introduced).

The ammo count is still 7 "mouse-clicks" per ton, just like the inner sphere. The difference is that it's 5 shots of 4 damage each instead of 1 shot of 20 damage. (hence, you see 35, since 7x5=35)

That's kinda why you see your UAC/20 shooting 5-10 times in rapid succession ingame instead of just twice.

Edited by Telmasa, 26 October 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[Telmasa]

Just to add (and to draw attention to my multiple re-edits), if you have 225 "shots" total, you really have 45 "clicks" of the mouse button @ 20 total damage per "click".

If you look at the number of "shots" per ton of ammo for clan LBX/20 instead of the AC/20 or UAC/20, it will be the same as an Inner Sphere AC/20.

Edited by Telmasa, 29 October 2014 - 12:08 PM.

[Bront]

Yeah, each shot is 4 points of damage, 5 shots per burst = 7 shots per ton (35).

[Ironwithin]

Gave you a like for that thread because the word "cheat" did not appear. Way to go, man.

[Valten]

The annoying thing though is that I have to be mentally calculating how many clicks I have left. I understand it with missiles where multiple launcher sizes share the same ton of ammo (Thanks PGI for not making me bring 1t Srm6 ammo and 1t Srm4 ammo) but with the ACs it really should display the number of "clicks" you get. That said, and I could be wrong, but isn't it possible to fire less than a full click worth? I think I saw my UAC/20 fire only 3 rounds once.

[Lily from animove]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

That's not how it works.

Each "shot" does 4 damage, because all clan ultra-auto-cannons fire 5 shots per "click", as opposed to the inner sphere's UAC5 only firing 1 shot, like a normal AC that just has double-tap ability. (And I reckon the other UAC sizes for the IS will work the same way, if/when they eventually get introduced).

The ammo count is still 7 "mouse-clicks" per ton, just like the inner sphere. The difference is that it's 5 shots of 4 damage each instead of 1 shot of 20 damage. (hence, you see 35, since 7x5=35)

That's kinda why you see your UAC/20 shooting 5-10 times in rapid succession ingame instead of just twice.

this is actually still a very confusing thing because when you don't know which Ac fires how many bullets its hard to calculate how much damage you get out of 1ton ammunition. Its a nonsense newbie confusing system. I click once on a lrm 20 knwwing it will deal up to 20 damage wand fire 20 missiles.
I will fire an Ac X knwing it will deal X damage but has Y fixed non Ac size related amount of bullets.

[DEMAX51]

Valten, on 29 October 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

...That said, and I could be wrong, but isn't it possible to fire less than a full click worth? I think I saw my UAC/20 fire only 3 rounds once.

Sometimes, I think, they can jam mid-burst on the double-tap. Not 100% sure on this, though.

[Voivode]

Telmasa, on 26 October 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

If you look at the number of "shots" per ton of ammo for clan LBX/20 or AC/20 instead of UAC/20, it will be the same as an Inner Sphere AC/20.

The Clan LBx20 will be the same as the IS AC20 but the clan AC20 has the same multishot mechanic as the UAC20, and therefore has 35 "shots" per ton of ammo, same as the UAC20.

[Koniving]

Wesxander, on 26 October 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

I have found that taking ultra ac 20s for clans you get way more ammo than they should be getting. It's listing and giving like 35 rounds for ultra ac 20 per ton. My direwolf (stolen one that is (davin bondsman turned clan infiltrator traitor) is going into battle with around 225 ac 20's rounds. This is huge advantage way past the Innersphere. I know they don't get ultra ac 20s but they only get 7 rounds or so per standard ac 20.

I recommend nerfing the hell out of that. With 225 rounds all I have to worry about is heat displacement. It obliterates lights like they was nothing,yes, no more nursing the rounds for just the right shot because ammo is limited. With 225 rounds you cross my path in dark alley in brawling map you have had it. I think giving a ultra ac 20 = 35 shots per ton is very, very ,bad idea. I am using but also reporting it for discussion. I think its bug no one caught at least I hope it is.

It's been caught, though not a bug. You will notice it ticks away. As already explained each shot of the UAC/20 is actually only 4 damage.

Each bullet for the Ultra 5 for the Clans is actually 1.666666666666667 damage, and three of them comes out to (1.666666666666667 * 3 =5 damage).

This is much akin to Battletech's caliber system. Where a 30mm Whirlwind/L AC/2 (Blackjack BJ-1, 0.2 damage per shot) fires 10 shots to deal 2 damage, an Armstrong J9 (Shadowhawk) is an 80mm 10 shot weapon (0.5 damage per shot) to deal 5 damage. However, the GM Whirlwind is an AC/5 of 120mm (the largest size for an AC/5), is 3 shots (1.67 rounded) to deal 5 damage. The largest AC/10s, also 120mm, simply fire twice as much as their AC/5 counterparts without jamming. Chemjet Gun, the largest Inner Sphere AC/20, is 185mm and pumps out 4 shots; the Chemjet Gun is only mounted on tanks. The Tomodzuru Autocannon Mount Type 20, the largest AC/20 mounted on an Inner Sphere mech, belongs exclusively to the almighty Hunchback, whose 5 shot (4 damage per shot) AC/20 is essentially king.

As it so happens, the Hunchabck II-C's twin UAC/20s required 6 shots to deal 20 damage, but can fire at twice the firing rate (Ultra mode) to churn out 12 shots for 40 damage. It should be noted that only the Clans got access to the 203mm rounds, and even then it's debated whether it's 2 shots or 1 shot to deal 20 damage. 2 shots would actually be 10 damage per shot, and is the more common 'canon' versus the less common 'canon'. The mech in question is the Cauldron Born (Ebon Jager).

If the lore was used in MWO, it'd produce some really diverse mechs and builds, much like tanks in War Thunder. Sadly it would also create 'other' issues with balancing, such as trying to give edges to ACs that spread more damage than ones that don't, as the low-caliber, high-shot-count ACs are meant to be used on much faster and lower armored targets like Locusts, Vehicles, Infantry, Battle Armor, Helicopters / Aerotech fighters, etc.

Edited by Koniving, 29 October 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Summon3r]

what i wouldnt do to use an IS ac20 on my clan mechs.. there is nothing to argue here, we get 2 pin point dmg weps, erppc and guass.. and we all know how well ppc's in general do with there brutal hit reg.

[Koniving]

What I wouldn't do to significantly reduce the number of pinpoint FLD weapons. Pinpoint or FLD is fine... Combining the two is insane.