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Stand By For A Major Lrm Nerf...


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#1 Kilo 40

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:01 PM

From Russ's twitter...

"So anyone else getting pounded by LRM's?"

"I like them having their place but I wish there was maybe 10% less LRM's per match"

Edited by Kilo 40, 27 October 2014 - 11:02 PM.


#2 process

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:03 PM

LRM 4.5
LRM 9
LRM 13.5
LRM 18

fixed ez

#3 Treye Snow

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:05 PM

View Postprocess, on 27 October 2014 - 11:03 PM, said:

LRM 4.5
LRM 9
LRM 13.5
LRM 18

fixed ez


Alright. I laughed.

#4 Kjudoon

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:06 PM

View PostKilo 40, on 27 October 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

From Russ's twitter...

"So anyone else getting pounded by LRM's?"

"I like them having their place but I wish there was maybe 10% less LRM's per match"

IF this is true, I'm disgusted.

I didn't get much trouble from LRMs in any match I played over the weekend, and have had all my LRMboats pretty much wrecked from the nerf you did LAST patch to LRM5s.

But if you have no interest in LRMs being effective outside of the steering wheel underhive, just remove them from the game and give up the pretense you want the weapon.


Edit: they did the nerf and it did make LRMs an even bigger joke. The punchline is that it's STILL not enough for the LRMQQbrigade. They want indirect fire removed and nothing short of this will be enough.

Edited by Kjudoon, 10 March 2015 - 07:39 PM.


#5 Brody319

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:08 PM

YES! Die little lrm boats, die!

#6 Kilo 40

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:09 PM

View PostKjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

IF this is true, I'm disgusted.

I didn't get much trouble from LRMs in any match I played over the weekend, and have had all my LRMboats pretty much wrecked from the nerf you did LAST patch to LRM5s.

But if you have no interest in LRMs being effective outside of the steering wheel underhive, just remove them from the game and give up the pretense you want the weapon.


agreed 100%

#7 MoonUnitBeta

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:11 PM

I think we should just remove tag and narc.

#8 Orbit Rain

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:13 PM

Spearmen hate archers, go figure.

#9 Deathlike

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:13 PM

LRMs are "fine" (for what they do), and "not fine" (ECM, situationally useless, too much shake).

I'm pretty sure this is a "the sky is falling" moment.

#10 The Flying Gecko

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:13 PM

I keep saying it, LRM's are both extremely good, and totally useless. I like where they are. But there's a number of factors at work, specifically this weekend.

1) LRM's do lots of damage, but they go where THEY want to go, not where you want them to. That Cherry Red Centurion arm is more likely to get a couple more shots off with LRM's then anything else.

2) LRM's are amazing for racking up kill assists.

3) Everyone is running around in different chassis then usual, there's less ECM mechs running around then I normally see.

4) The tournament grossly favors offence. I took the 3 AMS off my kit fox to upgrade one of my lasers to large.

The only 'nerf' I'd like to see to LRM's is slightly less cockpit shake and the intensity of the explosions (can't see a damn thing when one of those 6xLRM-5 mechs is letting it rain)

Edited by The Flying Gecko, 27 October 2014 - 11:16 PM.


#11 Xetelian

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:14 PM

LRMs on my account have a ~20% Accuracy out of 700 games (and were that accurate before reset I remember).

Anyone else feel like LRMs are fine?

#12 The Boz

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:14 PM

I'll just stand over there and gloat.


OK, to expand upon my stance here, I think that LRMs aren't super-powerful, but they are damn annoying, often offer no counterplay, but have a hard counter in the form of ECM. I think that, before much progress can be made in making LRMs actually useful and reliable, the ECM system must first be looked at. I'd separate it into Guardian and Angel ECM suites, canon timeline be damned, and allow the targeting of mechs equipped or otherwise protected by such a system, but with a much longer time to lock, and a greater missile spread once achieved. Think that tightening the missile spread mechanic (IE, huge spread on a simple lock, improves to tighter spread over time, with Artemis IV, and with TAG/NARC on target, with four "tightness" levels) would be a good way to make LRMs both more impactful and less binary in its application.

#13 NovaFury

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:16 PM

Well, maybe if TAG wasn't giving so much money...

#14 Quxudica

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:17 PM

View PostKilo 40, on 27 October 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

From Russ's twitter...

"So anyone else getting pounded by LRM's?"

"I like them having their place but I wish there was maybe 10% less LRM's per match"


A simple nerf isn't going to solve the problem. LRM's have been on a constant never ending nerf buff nerf cycle since Closed Beta. I would not be surprised in the least if that single weapon system has received the most changes over the course of the game by a fair margin. The problem is inherent to their design, they need a complete rebuild from ground up for how they work. Primarily their Indirect fire capability needs to require the target be affect by either TAG or NARC, without either of those the user should have to have a LoS lock.

#15 Walluh

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:18 PM

Want to make LRMs less annoying, and make role warfare a thing outside of just getting more cbills?

Make indirect fire work like it was supposed to. You drop off the radar immediately after leaving LoS (Yes, I get that there's a module for this, it should be baseline.) so there's a legitimate need for lights actually scouting, and spotting for LRM boats. If need be, lower the cooldown on LRMs to get more DPS out on them to compensate for the fact locks break immediately upon breaking LoS of the spotter.

#16 Dragomir Zelenka

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:19 PM

Boy, I hope not. My tweeted response to that whole thread of conversation boils down to:

The problem with LRMs is they require high skill to consistently use them effectively, and absolutely no skill to randomly dominate 10% of matches. So they have no mid-point sweetspot of effectiveness.

When you come up against LRMs, you're either facing:

a) A decent pilot using a weapon system you can counter with smart play

B) A swarm of ten terrible players spamming the left mouse button in the hope it's their turn to "earn" 2 kills and a handful of assists from sitting at the drop point and dumping missiles at every red triangle that pops up for more than 2 seconds.

Tourneys highlight this problem, but it's always there.

#17 Kjudoon

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:21 PM

View PostMoonUnitBeta, on 27 October 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:

I think we should just remove tag and narc.

I think we should remove ECM and AMS. They're both broken and obviously destructive to the gaming experience. Plus with LRMs being gutted and left for dead if yet ANOTHER nerf happens to them, there's no purpose for them to be in the game since their sole existence was to confound ONE weapon in the game.

View PostWalluh, on 27 October 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Want to make LRMs less annoying, and make role warfare a thing outside of just getting more cbills?

Make indirect fire work like it was supposed to. You drop off the radar immediately after leaving LoS (Yes, I get that there's a module for this, it should be baseline.) so there's a legitimate need for lights actually scouting, and spotting for LRM boats. If need be, lower the cooldown on LRMs to get more DPS out on them to compensate for the fact locks break immediately upon breaking LoS of the spotter.

But but but... we don't want things that would manage this like Rearm & Repair, out of mech logistical costs, contracts and consequence filled gameplay! We want to play mech smash skurmush all day long like the good brawltards we are!

#18 MoonUnitBeta

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:23 PM

View PostKjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

I think we should remove ECM and AMS. They're both broken and obviously destructive to the gaming experience. Plus with LRMs being gutted and left for dead if yet ANOTHER nerf happens to them, there's no purpose for them to be in the game since their sole existence was to confound ONE weapon in the game.

Posted Image


Quite.
Let's keep going shall we, just remove LRMs all together? Jolly good, then.

#19 Rouken

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:24 PM

It may be too much to hope for an overhaul of the way LRMs work so that they are more reliable but less extreme in effectiveness. Buy hey, a guy can dream, right?

#20 Quxudica

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:26 PM

View PostKjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

But but but... we don't want things that would manage this like Rearm & Repair, out of mech logistical costs, contracts and consequence filled gameplay! We want to play mech smash skurmush all day long like the good brawltards we are!


Snark aside, Repair and Rearm did absolutely nothing to fix anything in the game, it only made it worse. The only change ammo based builds like LRM users made was adding a few additional tons of ammo so the free Rearm circumvented their need to ever pay it.





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