273 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Widowmaker1981, on 31 October 2014 - 02:48 AM, said:

its not actually possible to deal with, because how can a computer really tell the difference between a macro that clicks, holds for 0.75s and releases, and a person doing that manually? they can't, because to the game it looks identical. Macros don't really help all that much in this game tbh, and if you're THAT bothered - just use em yourself.

no one does perfectly hit those 0,75s all the time, so yes it can be determined if its natural or artificial. It's also granting an advantage over users without macro.
Futrher, make a table for yourself put in the ac 2 ac 5 ac 10 ac 15 uhhm I mean gauss and ac 20. then compare all the values like velocity, damage, range and heat as well as tonnage. you will very clearly see what is op with the gauss. you have big sized AC that has litereally no donwside except "probably exploding" but that rarely care since those explosions are rare.

EnzyteBob82, on 31 October 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Gauss is not OP. Direwolves are not OP.

If you get hit by gauss, 90% chance you did something dumb. Yes there are occasions when a good pilot will hit you with it and you did everything right, but they are few and far in between. And at the end of the day, its only 30 damage for a hit with DUAL gauss. Hell, a single shot from a single arm on a Nova does 35.........A full salvo from a Stormcrow sporting SRMs will do DOUBLE that. NOT OP, NOT EVEN CLOSE

As for Direwolves, again, if you are staring down the business end of a Direwolve, I'd say you made a mistake somewhere down the line. It is a 100 ton mech, with terrible speed, terrible maneuverability, and a gigantic hitbox. It is supposed to punish you. After all, if something that slow and ungainly has you in its sights, you deserve the beating you receive.

Dear PGI, please leave everything as is. Haters gonna hate

sry you have oprobably no idea about the games mechanics when oyu compare a dual gauss 30dmg with a Nova arm volley of 35. The worlds between both cna not be further apart from each other.

but its fine, do you allow me now to use 2 gauss in each nova arm? pretty please, because obviously it seems to be ok by your logic.

Edited by Lily from animove, 01 November 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Thell]

I don't know about you but LRMs are just as common if not more common now. Almost every mech has LRMs on it in some terrible cringe worthy build, such as an Atlas that focuses on LRMs. Gauss are hardly much of a problem.

Edited by Thell, 01 November 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Lily from animove, on 01 November 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

no one does eprfectly hit those 0,75s all the time, so yes it can be determined if its natural or artificial.
Futrher, make a table for yourself put in the ac 2 ac 5 ac 10 ac 15 uhhm I mean gauss and ac 20. then compare all the values like velocity, damage, range and heat as well as tonnage. you will very clearly see what is op with the gauss. you have big sized AC that has litereally no donwside except "probably exploding" but that rarely care since those explosions are rare.




sry you have oprobably no idea about the games mechanics when oyu compare a dual gauss 30dmg with a Nova arm volley of 35. The worlds between both cna not be further apart from each other.

but its fine, do you allow me now to use 2 gauss in each nova arm? pretty please, because obviously it seems to be ok by your logic.

Go ahead.

Oh, wait... you can't. GAUSS ARE TOO HEAVY.

Jag, Phract, Catapult, Dire Wolf. Those can use dual gass. Jag and Dire only ones that can do so effectively. Both also give up a *lot* to do so effectively, leaving both pretty crippled at close range - much like the Catapult 1A or Stalker who boat 80 tube LRMs. It's a tradeoff that rarely pays off unless you are really, really specialized in which case... you're about as effective as if you'd packed extra UAC5s instead.

Gaussjag is a *hard* mech to do well. No lasers, slower, fragile, 100% ammo dependent. Less DPS than most Commandos at close range and with huge, fat, XL-packed side torsos. Some people do it well; you need to be on a smart team to do so though.

The Direstar build (gauss + lasers or PPCs) isn't a bad choice. For some competitive teams who have people effectively covering for the DWs horrible mobility and at close range absolutely inability to deal with anything faster than an Atlas it's a solid mech - as it should be at 100 tons. Anyone else needs to be packing 4 or 5 UAC5s and some lasers, which is better both for killing and for farming cbills.

Gauss isn't bad. It's not great, but it's not bad. You'll still see competitive players with laservomit or AC5s/UAC5s though. The gauss lacks flexibility and for the tonnage isn't the best choice most of the time - same with most weapons.

[Rebas Kradd]

Yosharian, on 31 October 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Because the Dire Wolf just came in fairly recently? Your question answers itself.

Gauss is a ******* joke, single Gauss is unusable and dual is auto-win for ranged combat? How is this a well-balanced weapon?

Because the mechs carrying it are forced to be ultra-slow. Every time I see a dual gauss Dire Wolf or Jagermech, I call it out to my team and watch it vaporize in a hail of LRM fire. It's rather hilarious, actually.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 01 November 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[Lily from animove]

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

Go ahead.

Oh, wait... you can't. GAUSS ARE TOO HEAVY.

Jag, Phract, Catapult, Dire Wolf. Those can use dual gass. Jag and Dire only ones that can do so effectively. Both also give up a *lot* to do so effectively, leaving both pretty crippled at close range - much like the Catapult 1A or Stalker who boat 80 tube LRMs. It's a tradeoff that rarely pays off unless you are really, really specialized in which case... you're about as effective as if you'd packed extra UAC5s instead.

Gaussjag is a *hard* mech to do well. No lasers, slower, fragile, 100% ammo dependent. Less DPS than most Commandos at close range and with huge, fat, XL-packed side torsos. Some people do it well; you need to be on a smart team to do so though.

The Direstar build (gauss + lasers or PPCs) isn't a bad choice. For some competitive teams who have people effectively covering for the DWs horrible mobility and at close range absolutely inability to deal with anything faster than an Atlas it's a solid mech - as it should be at 100 tons. Anyone else needs to be packing 4 or 5 UAC5s and some lasers, which is better both for killing and for farming cbills.

Gauss isn't bad. It's not great, but it's not bad. You'll still see competitive players with laservomit or AC5s/UAC5s though. The gauss lacks flexibility and for the tonnage isn't the best choice most of the time - same with most weapons.

so in which way is it specialised?

LL are specialised, lots of heat for range.
small lasers are specialised, low heat low range.
ac2 and 5's are specialised, range but low dmg
ac 10's and 20's are specialised because they get heat and low range. How and where is dualgauss specialsied by getting constant no heat damage with pinpoint nearly instant hit working from 0 to extreme ranges? tell me please?

100% ammo dependend? wow how many proper builds do regulary run out of ammo? Why are so many dual gauss jagers so good? because "specialsed build" by being specialised to work always. Sure you sacrifice a bit, but its not that much for what you get, otherwise people wouldn't do this as often as they do.

And your Diregauss is inable to hit things at close? LOL, train to Dire. seriously, direwolf can still kill in close, if you know how to use it right. Diregauss is a bit harder frem EU, because you can't nearly instant leg lights due to being out of server synch for a vital degree to hit fast speedy light legs as easy as a low latency user. But otherwise, its evil to use that builds, and they have exactly what true downside? None. the only downsides come, when the pilot is doing something wrong. But then it doesnT' cares if your diregauss or lasers or ac's- When dual gauss + X isn't great than its the pilot not being able to make it great.

but in a world where everyone complains about lrm, I am quite sure to know why they think gauss are "not op" or "hard to use".

Edited by Lily from animove, 01 November 2014 - 11:45 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Rebas Kradd, on 01 November 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Every time I see a dual gauss Dire Wolf or Jagermech, I watch it vaporize in a hail of LRM fire.

mid elo games. where lrm's are the solution and answer to anything.

ask heimdelight how his direwolf constantly dies in lrm's every match.

Edited by Lily from animove, 01 November 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[H I A S]

DualGauss have less DPS. Dont nerf all Weapons for the Underhive.

[Rebas Kradd]

Lily from animove, on 01 November 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

mid elo games. where lrm's are the solution and answer to anything.

ask heimdelight how his direwolf constantly dies in lrm's every match.

That's not even remotely what I said, but thanks for playin'.

All I implied is that LRMs have an ideal usage in hitting slow targets that can't take advantage of cover - like assaults.

[MischiefSC]

Lily from animove, on 01 November 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

so in which way is it specialised?

LL are specialised, lots of heat for range.
small lasers are specialised, low heat low range.
ac2 and 5's are specialised, range but low dmg
ac 10's and 20's are specialised because they get heat and low range. How and where is dualgauss specialsied by getting constant no heat damage with pinpoint nearly instant hit working from 0 to extreme ranges? tell me please?

100% ammo dependend? wow how many proper builds do regulary run out of ammo? Why are so many dual gauss jagers so good? because "specialsed build" by being specialised to work always. Sure you sacrifice a bit, but its not that much for what you get, otherwise people wouldn't do this as often as they do.

And your Diregauss is inable to hit things at close? LOL, train to Dire. seriously, direwolf can still kill in close, if you know how to use it right. Diregauss is a bit harder frem EU, because you can't nearly instant leg lights due to being out of server synch for a vital degree to hit fast speedy light legs as easy as a low latency user. But otherwise, its evil to use that builds, and they have exactly what true downside? None. the only downsides come, when the pilot is doing something wrong. But then it doesnT' cares if your diregauss or lasers or ac's- When dual gauss + X isn't great than its the pilot not being able to make it great.

but in a world where everyone complains about lrm, I am quite sure to know why they think gauss are "not op" or "hard to use".

No lateral arm movements, incredibly narrow torso twist, horrible mobility. That's why if you get shot by a Gauss DW at point blank you're either in something too fat/slow or not paying attention. You can out-circle one in most heavies.

Go run a dual gauss jag. Go absolutely dominate the game in one; I'd love to see it. I can count on one hand the number of truly exceptional gaussjag pilots I know. How about you go mop up the floor with the top tier competitive players in their silly laservomit Timby builds or when they fill back up with AC5+PPC Dragonslayers when Victors finally get their unnerf.

Go roll the gauss DW, go nuts. Show us all how it's done.

Which won't happen though because dominant play is still UAC5s (IS or Clan) and lasers. I can do 50% more damage than the gauss DW at the same range using UAC5s for the cost of literally 0.50 seconds on target, all at the exact same range.

Gauss is super specialized due to charge-up, plus tonnage and its explosive nature. It's almost the weight of 2 AC5s, for 6 DPS at the exact same range. So it's got 50% more damage per hit in return for 50% less DPS, plus a charge-up mechanic that makes it clumsy for snap-shots. At the end of a round you're almost guaranteed to get more damage on target with AC5s and with the same precision as a gauss.

Some exceptions to that are people who have practiced really, really hard with gauss. Macros with gauss are nto always a good thing; in that 0.75 charge time your target may have moved out of sight in which case you just wasted 2x gauss rounds. Most good gauss folks don't use a macro they use trigger discipline.

At 600m or less the AC5s are probably a better choice. Slightly heavier but better at every range. The only time the dual gauss is superior is when you're actually sticking to OUTSIDE optimal range for it and hitting for 10-12 points per round; gauss still has 3x range falloff and not the 2x that other ballistics have. So dual gauss does let you hit for 20 pts at 800m....

In return for 30 tons of weapons and at least 4 tons of ammo (6 is better). All with little/no backup weapons.

Try it. Go nuts. Show us all how it's done. Do 100 drops with dual gauss anything, then try 100 drops with AC5s/UAC5s and lasers if in a DW. I recommend going with 4 UAC5s, plenty of ammo and 4 CERMLs; runs cool enough and stomps face pretty well. Far, far more consistently with higher damage (and cbills) and the same if not better kills than the 2xgauss + laservomit to choice option.

[MischiefSC]

Lily from animove, on 01 November 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

mid elo games. where lrm's are the solution and answer to anything.

ask heimdelight how his direwolf constantly dies in lrm's every match.

I have literally killed heimdelight in his DW using LRMs on forest colony in pugs before. He's 10x better at this game than me, no question - don't think that top tier players never get killed or lose matches. They do plenty of times and they get killed by LRMs. It's just normally after the rest of their team went down.

LRMs are useful against anyone and everyone in pug queue at any and every Elo. You'll even see top tier players running them in pugs for that reason. Multiple ECM and coordination is what kills LRMs in group queue for top teams; not special magic super duper cover SKILLZ. Smart use of UAV can even overcome that; just not consistently.

LRMs are not terribad against golden tier elites - they are just not *consistent*. The difference between top performing players and everyone else isn't magic or tricks. It's just consistency. That is what dictates the meta. What is consistently the most effective, not situationally effective.

Gauss and LRMs are situationally very effective. Lasers/AC5/UAC5s are consistently effective. LRMs do need an indirect fire nerf and a direct fire buff; this will move them a bit less situationally effective and more consistently effective and produce a better overall environment. Gauss are situationally effective but in a manner that can be applied reasonably consistently (controlling range, close range support from teammates) so it has more overlap than LRMs do for example. They're in a good space.

[Aresye]

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

Go run a dual gauss jag. Go absolutely dominate the game in one; I'd love to see it. I can count on one hand the number of truly exceptional gaussjag pilots I know. How about you go mop up the floor with the top tier competitive players in their silly laservomit Timby builds or when they fill back up with AC5+PPC Dragonslayers when Victors finally get their unnerf.

I think you're asking too much here. Why should someone make an effort to test things out themselves before complaining about them?

[Lily from animove]

Rebas Kradd, on 01 November 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

That's not even remotely what I said, but thanks for playin'.

All I implied is that LRMs have an ideal usage in hitting slow targets that can't take advantage of cover - like assaults.

an assault pilot not able to know what areas on a map he never has to enter is a bad pilot. Nothing to add here than purely a piloting mistake.

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

No lateral arm movements, incredibly narrow torso twist, horrible mobility. That's why if you get shot by a Gauss DW at point blank you're either in something too fat/slow or not paying attention. You can out-circle one in most heavies.

Go run a dual gauss jag. Go absolutely dominate the game in one; I'd love to see it. I can count on one hand the number of truly exceptional gaussjag pilots I know. How about you go mop up the floor with the top tier competitive players in their silly laservomit Timby builds or when they fill back up with AC5+PPC Dragonslayers when Victors finally get their unnerf.

Go roll the gauss DW, go nuts. Show us all how it's done.

Which won't happen though because dominant play is still UAC5s (IS or Clan) and lasers. I can do 50% more damage than the gauss DW at the same range using UAC5s for the cost of literally 0.50 seconds on target, all at the exact same range.

Gauss is super specialized due to charge-up, plus tonnage and its explosive nature. It's almost the weight of 2 AC5s, for 6 DPS at the exact same range. So it's got 50% more damage per hit in return for 50% less DPS, plus a charge-up mechanic that makes it clumsy for snap-shots. At the end of a round you're almost guaranteed to get more damage on target with AC5s and with the same precision as a gauss.

Some exceptions to that are people who have practiced really, really hard with gauss. Macros with gauss are nto always a good thing; in that 0.75 charge time your target may have moved out of sight in which case you just wasted 2x gauss rounds. Most good gauss folks don't use a macro they use trigger discipline.

At 600m or less the AC5s are probably a better choice. Slightly heavier but better at every range. The only time the dual gauss is superior is when you're actually sticking to OUTSIDE optimal range for it and hitting for 10-12 points per round; gauss still has 3x range falloff and not the 2x that other ballistics have. So dual gauss does let you hit for 20 pts at 800m....

In return for 30 tons of weapons and at least 4 tons of ammo (6 is better). All with little/no backup weapons.

Try it. Go nuts. Show us all how it's done. Do 100 drops with dual gauss anything, then try 100 drops with AC5s/UAC5s and lasers if in a DW. I recommend going with 4 UAC5s, plenty of ammo and 4 CERMLs; runs cool enough and stomps face pretty well. Far, far more consistently with higher damage (and cbills) and the same if not better kills than the 2xgauss + laservomit to choice option.

50% more damage? which is nto pinpoint and not vital to take out opponents, Gauss is made for pinpoitn delivery on important parts not just for "hitting somwhere to rack up damage"

"same precision as gauss" sry no chance dude, not correct.

"Some exceptions to that are people who have practiced really, really hard with gauss."

Thats the point, many people try a build 10x and say its poop, because dualgauss needs more training and pointing and clicking wildly with UAC 5's is easier. But thats exactly the point where the "dual gauss isn't even good" opinion comes from: guys to lazy training and seeing its potential. you will probably need those 100 games first befiore you mater the mechanics good enpugh to knwo how to use it very well, so basically, train 100 matches with it, then make a 100 ac 5 vs dualgauss builds for another 100 matches. Gauss will work better in terms of killing efficiently, less in terms of gathering damage.

Once the game will offer me any chassis that I like being able too dualgauss I will do so, but fishhead and matsiff face are too ugly for me to pilot. maybe the crab, maybe not, But we will have CW then and I am on the clanside so I won't have much intentions for piloting a Crab. OGI crab for clanners pls? Cmon we must have some not ugly clanners in the assault bracket. (waiting for behemoth)

Edited by Lily from animove, 01 November 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[Domoneky]

Pretty much my reaction

[Lily from animove]

Domoneky, on 01 November 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Pretty much my reaction

you should brush your hair

[MischiefSC]

Aresye, on 01 November 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

I think you're asking too much here. Why should someone make an effort to test things out themselves before complaining about them?

I saw what you did there.

I say the same thing to people flipping out about LRMs. The difference is that with LRMs you can run 3 bad matches and get 1 really, really good one (NARC buddy on Caustic) and so in terms of game experience that's ALL BAD. You've got 3 matches where you sandbagged your team in River City so everyone on your team had a bad experience and then the guy who drops on a team with no ECM on Caustic gets NARCed and vaporized by you and 5 other LRM boats on your team and the other team has a bad game.

Are LRMs crazy OP? Oh god no. They are focused on a **** mechanic though and it created another bad mechanic, ECM. Fix LRMs then we can fix ECM.

Gauss are solid where they are.

Lily from animove, on 01 November 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

50% mroe damage? which is nto pinpoint and not vital to take out opponents, Gauss is made for pinpoitn delivery on important parts not just for "hitting somwhere to rack up damage"

"same precision as gauss" sry no chance dude, not correct.

"Some exceptions to that are people who have practiced really, really hard with gauss."

Thats the point, many people try a build 10x and say its poop, because dualgauss needs more training and pointing and clicking wildly with UAC 5's is easier. But thats exactly the point where the "dual gauss isn't even good" opinion comes from: guys to lazy training and seeing its potential. you will probably need those 100 games first befiore you mater the mechanics good enpugh to knwo how to use it very well, so basically, train 100 matches with it, then make a 100 ac 5 vs dualgauss builds for another 100 matches. Gauss will work better in terms of killing efficiently, less in terms of gathering damage.

2xAC5s do 10pts of damage every 1.66 seconds, 1x gauss does 15 pts every 4.75 seconds (with perfect trigger discipline). All of it PPFLD, all at the same range.

Gauss is NOT a more efficient killer though, that's the point. Only in situations where you're spending the whole match at 600-1000m and your team is consistently damaging the enemy and protecting you from enemy lights. For any and every other situation that 2xAC5s for each gauss, or lasers even, is going to provide you more consistent damage to the enemy which results in more kills.

I run a dual gauss jag and do it pretty well. I run it when I drop with my team. I do NOT run it in pugs as it's about as feast/famine as LRMs are. In pugs you're better off with the AC5s or UAC5s because you can't count on your team to protect you or to be able to control the range or count on your team to get the enemy to within 30pts of death.

The brutal truth is that dual gauss is a killsteal design most of the time. That 30pts is damage a Jenner could do, just at a higher risk. One arty hit nearby, most mechs can do 30pts consistently. A laservomit Timby can put 30pts on a single location at 600m in 0.5 seconds pretty easily. Give it a full second and it'll put closer to 80pts on target. It's even more relevant with the gauss Dire; it's too slow to do hit-fade well, which is what the gauss does best with that 4.75 delay between shots. That's why the effective gauss builds are Jags, not DWs. The Dire shines in doing stupid damage to anything stupid enough to stand still in front of it.

You run 100 matches with gauss and UAC5s respectively in the DW. You'll get about the same kills but more match wins in the UAC5 build. The gauss is a good killstealer when your team is doing well already. The UAC5 will brush folks back and create more opportunities for your team to win. Consistent success. Gauss will provide situational success.

Can even try a Gauss/ERLL sniper setup with the DW. In situations where you can set it up and deploy it you'll be a nasty little bugger. For the other 3/4ths of your matches you'll be fodder.

[Lily from animove]

MischiefSC, on 01 November 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

I saw what you did there.

I say the same thing to people flipping out about LRMs. The difference is that with LRMs you can run 3 bad matches and get 1 really, really good one (NARC buddy on Caustic) and so in terms of game experience that's ALL BAD. You've got 3 matches where you sandbagged your team in River City so everyone on your team had a bad experience and then the guy who drops on a team with no ECM on Caustic gets NARCed and vaporized by you and 5 other LRM boats on your team and the other team has a bad game.

Are LRMs crazy OP? Oh god no. They are focused on a **** mechanic though and it created another bad mechanic, ECM. Fix LRMs then we can fix ECM.

Gauss are solid where they are.



2xAC5s do 10pts of damage every 1.66 seconds, 1x gauss does 15 pts every 4.75 seconds (with perfect trigger discipline). All of it PPFLD, all at the same range.

Gauss is NOT a more efficient killer though, that's the point. Only in situations where you're spending the whole match at 600-1000m and your team is consistently damaging the enemy and protecting you from enemy lights. For any and every other situation that 2xAC5s for each gauss, or lasers even, is going to provide you more consistent damage to the enemy which results in more kills.

I run a dual gauss jag and do it pretty well. I run it when I drop with my team. I do NOT run it in pugs as it's about as feast/famine as LRMs are. In pugs you're better off with the AC5s or UAC5s because you can't count on your team to protect you or to be able to control the range or count on your team to get the enemy to within 30pts of death.

The brutal truth is that dual gauss is a killsteal design most of the time. That 30pts is damage a Jenner could do, just at a higher risk. One arty hit nearby, most mechs can do 30pts consistently. A laservomit Timby can put 30pts on a single location at 600m in 0.5 seconds pretty easily. Give it a full second and it'll put closer to 80pts on target. It's even more relevant with the gauss Dire; it's too slow to do hit-fade well, which is what the gauss does best with that 4.75 delay between shots. That's why the effective gauss builds are Jags, not DWs. The Dire shines in doing stupid damage to anything stupid enough to stand still in front of it.

You run 100 matches with gauss and UAC5s respectively in the DW. You'll get about the same kills but more match wins in the UAC5 build. The gauss is a good killstealer when your team is doing well already. The UAC5 will brush folks back and create more opportunities for your team to win. Consistent success. Gauss will provide situational success.

Can even try a Gauss/ERLL sniper setup with the DW. In situations where you can set it up and deploy it you'll be a nasty little bugger. For the other 3/4ths of your matches you'll be fodder.

and here we go, gauss hits the light which hops by, by 30 damage, your ac 5's won't because hes gone into cover again before you can fire that amount fo damage. huge diffference.
time of exposure is less with gauss, compared to the uac constant firing mechanics. also, meet a damaged guy, 0,75 secs later a section can be ripped off by 30 total damage, your ac's may need still some time, they do a fraction of that damage within a single second. ut in this time you opponent can already fire his guns, whciha blow off section can not do anymrore.

further in a gauss setup you can twist away damage between the shots, uac 5 can't because then you can not use your full RoF anymore.


sure if you make ac5 like starebattles with a gauss build, that will fail.

Edited by Lily from animove, 01 November 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[Kiryuin Ragyo]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 November 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

My only reason for not wanting Gauss to Alpha together is Convergence. 15 damage to one spot is not at all as deadly as it is on TT. 2 Gauss hitting one location is the way one feels on TT.

Cause in game you got not 56 max armour like in TT, but 116 max armour. Want GR like in TT, okay... than double the GR damage to 30 dps. But keep in mind that after an half a year comes TRO3068 with HGR which got by TT 25dps which in MWO will be, if we changed to make it deadlier... around 50dps per shot. And with TRO3058 and TRO3061 comes such jaggernaut as Pillager who able to carry dual HGR and aray of lazers...

I preddict another troll thread such as... "Dual Heavy Gauss Rifle is OP".

But B 4.... we meet an mighty KGC-010/001/000/0000 with dual AC20 which is "so op", and whole bunch of new IS mechs who are instantly "so op".
Plus we nevah gonna get "Blazer Cannon" cause it's "so-so-so OP", HPPC also "too op" and IGR cause dual mount of IGR is 44dps and it's totaly cannot be cause "very so op".

Everything with damage more than 1 is OP.

[Lily from animove]

Kiryuin Ragyo, on 01 November 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Cause in game you got not 56 max armour like in TT, but 116 max armour. Want GR like in TT, okay... than double the GR damage to 30 dps. But keep in mind that after an half a year comes TRO3068 with HGR which got by TT 25dps which in MWO will be, if we changed to make it deadlier... around 50dps per shot. And with TRO3058 and TRO3061 comes such jaggernaut as Pillager who able to carry dual HGR and aray of lazers...

I preddict another troll thread such as... "Dual Heavy Gauss Rifle is OP".

But B 4.... we meet an mighty KGC-010/001/000/0000 with dual AC20 which is "so op", and whole bunch of new IS mechs who are instantly "so op".
Plus we nevah gonna get "Blazer Cannon" cause it's "so-so-so OP", HPPC also "too op" and IGR cause dual mount of IGR is 44dps and it's totaly cannot be cause "very so op".

Everything with damage more than 1 is OP.

flamers and mg's are fine then.

the issue is, whith what chance does yout TT gausa hit the location you want it to hit? yet both of them.

Edited by Lily from animove, 01 November 2014 - 02:03 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Lily from animove, on 01 November 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

and here we go, gauss hits the light which hops by, by 30 damage, your ac 5's won't because hes gone into cover again before you can fire that amount fo damage. huge diffference.
time of exposure is less with gauss, compared to the uac constant firing mechanics. also, meet a damaged guy, 0,75 secs later a section can be ripped off by 30 total damage, your ac's may need still some time, they do a fraction of that damage within a single second. ut in this time you opponent can already fire his guns, whciha blow off section can not do anymrore.

further in a gauss setup you can twist away damage between the shots, uac 5 can't because then you can not use your full RoF anymore.


sure if you make ac5 like starebattles with a gauss build, that will fail.

So I can take 4 AC5s instead of 2 gauss, so that's 20pts PPFLD instead of 30 - which I can then do again 1.66 seconds later instead of 4.75 seconds later.

I can snap fire at that passing light for those 20pts instead of having to charge for 0.75.

If that light passes me 1 second after I fired I'll probably get a shot at him with my 4xAC5s. I will not get the time with my 4.75 second delay with the dual gauss.

UAC5 DW destroys Gauss DW in starebattles. For one, gauss isn't going to be able to aim with the constant shake. For another I'm doing 4x the damage, literally, in the same timeframe. The whole point of the UAC5 DW is that it will win any and every staredown with anything that isn't another facemelter. You can't turn a DW enough to protect your CT; In the time you are literally lining up your second 30pt shot I'll be passing 120pts of damage to your CT. So you'll do 30pts in the same timeframe that I've done 120. Even if some of that spreads a bit if we're talking pilots of equal skill the guy with the UAC will win every one of those encounters, and do win them. It's why you don't see a lot of gauss, save as killstealing builds or in group queue on DW.

I don't want to just throw meaningless numbers back and forth - go do it. Go load up a gauss build and run it, whatever mech you want. Try a single, try a double. A Cent with 1x Gauss and 1xERLL isn't a bad sniper choice for a Centurion if you're needing to level them up and is rock solid gauss practice with more mobility than a DW.

Try a DW gauss build. Go 'dominate' with it. After you find you're losing more than you're winning or at best breaking even, go run a 4x or 5xUAC5 one. You may not get as many kill shots but you'll do stupid damage which in turn drives more wins as your teammates eagerly 'secure' your kills.

Consistent performance vs situational. Go do it. If you turn out to be god-tier with gauss and mop up the floor with all those pansy top-tier competitive folks and their lasers and AC5s, good on you. Show us how its done, change the meta for real and show that a change is needed.

More likely I expect you to see exactly what everyone is already talking about.

[MountainCopper]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 November 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Sorry man I do this to Mechs with an AC20 4 Mediums and 4 SRM6 as well, It's not abysmal for me, and when I get ganked by 4-8 enemy Mechs I die just as fast as when I pound you with awesome Alphas! No Worries on my part, it's part of playing a combat game dude.

The arrival of the Clans and that SRMs are working again, changed things quite a bit. Survivability has decreased noticeably due to much more light missile launchers for one point. Another point is that double Gauss builds are so common DWF loadouts, that one faces about three of these on average. And that nearly every match.

And while piloting Lights, I can stay at a distance from SRM-bombers if I choose so, and can use cover and/or let the LRMs hit the side and back of my Mech. But I can do nothing against Gauss Rifles.

I have nothing against builds with incorporate one Gauss Rifle and lasers. I am then prepared to exchange blows, also being able to influence where the next shot is going to hit me, knowing we both deal good amounts of damage.
But this stupidity with firing two Gauss Rifles as the majority of the firepower, also allowing to turn your torso away instantly after firing because of them being projectile weapons, hitting one single component is just unbalanced crap. Destroying a component on your Light Mech often with the 1st shot...

So, what's left for Lights it the current state of the game when forced to fight Mech classes heavier than themselves? Be torn to shreds against SRM-heavy builds in a brawl, or stay at a distance to fight...
The first being difficult due to an abundance of SRM-bombers found in Mediums and Heavies. And the latter being made impossible due to an increase of double Gauss builds on Heavies and Assaults...


Something they have yet to balance, as the charge-up mechanic is simply bypassed, leaving not even that little drawback.

Edited by GoldenFleece, 02 November 2014 - 01:10 AM.