115 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Viktor Drake, on 06 November 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

And yet my Ice Ferret Prime has the highest average earnings of all my clan mechs including my Stormcrow, Direwolf and Timber Wolf. 206K average per match vs my second highest earner, the Stormcrow at 180k per match. That is like 15% higher earnings so how can the Ice Ferret be all that bad.

Also we are playing two different Ice Ferrets it seems. Mine is amazingly tanky. In fact it is one of the most tanky mechs I own. My Ice Ferret's hit boxes are amazing to say the least. As far as firepower, ok it is a little limited compared to much slower 45-50 ton mediums. However, 4 ER MLs are roughly equalivant to 6 IS MLs which is what alot of Jenners and Firestarters run plus they have the added benefit of being able to hit for max damage at 130m longer distance (260m for max damage) plus the module gives it an even larger range advantage (10% of 400m is alot more than 10% of 270m).

Now is it comparable to a Stormcrow? No. However it is hands down better than the Nova. Also it can do virtually anything a Jenner or Firestarter can, at longer ranges and with much more durability. The only advantage those mechs have is JJs but even that doesn't alway save them when an Ice Ferret runs them down. I mean equal speed, equal agility, equal firepower, 33% less armor....yeah most Jenners and Firestarters aren't winning that fight.

Prime(I) - Best performer

3 MPL
1 SRM6
13 DHS

Average earnings with premium = 206k
Top earnings = 350k (358k I think but I am at work and my spreadsheet is at home)

19 matches (18 matches without speed tweak and/or various other basic efficiencies, mech has not unlock all Elites yet)
19 Kills
9 Deaths
2.11 K/D
375 Average Damage per match
1612 Average XP per match

Sorry but that isn't the stats of a bad mech.

Actually, those are stats of a mech that hasn't had enough matches.

I'd take a Nova over this, which is a testament to how bad it is. Nova has both JJs and hardpoints, this has slightly better hitboxes, but just as easily disarmed. It just never has the chance to kill something (in a head on confrontation) before it loses the arm, unlike the Nova.
It doesn't have the JJs to scale a cliff, so it has to run, either towards the enemy, or turn your back to it. You'll likely lose something important either way.

The Nova Prime is at a 3.38 K/d after 250 matches. That seems appropriate for a bad mech. This simply cannot compare.

It needs help; perhaps PGI will give it some, one day.

[Duke Nedo]

Mcgral18, on 06 November 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

The Nova Prime is at a 3.38 K/d after 250 matches. That seems appropriate for a bad mech. This simply cannot compare.

What's your Nova build?

[Water Bear]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 06 November 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Except damage isn't the end-all-be-all metric. Winning matches is.

Fine, you could easily measure that, too. You can measure any quantity you want that is recorded in your profile using the statistics I mentioned.

(If you were PGI and had access to that data, anyway).

Edited by Water Bear, 06 November 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[Josef Nader]

Water Bear, on 06 November 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

My reply was aimed at someone whose opinion was too extreme. The Ice Ferret is not "good" in exactly the sense that it is not tier 1. You would agree. That doesn't mean you have to hate the mech. For example, I love Awesomes. And Cicadas.

But would I argue that the Cicada or Awesome is "insane" in the right hands? No. It might be insane when I use it against noob players, sure, but against someone of equal skill in a T1 mech...?

The point that I was trying to get at is that the differences between a good pilot in a Stormcrow and a good pilot in an Ice Ferret are minute, as both pilots are going to be well used to fighting the other chassis. You can't be good in an Ice Ferret if you lose every 1v1 confrontation with a Stormcrow. Ice Ferret pilots are going to develop strategies and tactics for dealing with the Stormcrow that take advantage of their mech's benefits, and once you hit a certain skill level the differences between the chassis when piloted well become very small, especially in PUG matches.

Do I feel at a disadvantage in a PUG bringing my Awesome? Not really. I'm very comfortable in the chassis and I know how to make it perform consistently. I know how to engage Dire Whales and Atlai alike, and because I understand the positioning and butter zones for the Awesome (pre-quirks), I am very good at setting up engagements in my favor. It comes with being good at a specific chassis. In PUG matches, the differences largely disappear with skilled pilots. Even most team matches allow you to get away with sub-optimal designs the pilot is very comfortable in. Its only really at the top level of play that those tiny differences between chassis start to seriously matter.

This is with the Caveat that you play the mech in a way that it's natural properties agree with. The Ice Ferret isn't about to out-brawl a Stormcrow, as the Stormcrow isn't that much slower or bigger than it, and it mounts a lot more punch. However, the Ice Ferret stands a very good chance of harrying a Stormcrow to death by taking advantage of its speed and ability to fire while running almost directly away from a target. Play up the chassis strengths and don't shoehorn it into a role it won't be good at.

Edited by Josef Nader, 06 November 2014 - 10:54 AM.

[1453 R]

It’s been my experience that the Ice Ferret rolls damage pretty well. I’ve rarely gone down in it without losing both arms (matter of fact, it almost feels like shades of my Trebs, with how fast I can lose the arms if I’m not careful X_X), but even beyond that, it tends to roll damage across its torsos pretty naturally. It soaks up damage much better than the Blackjack does at the same weight, and with the speed advantage the Ferret has, I can usually survive pretty well in a match so long as I don’t do something derpish.

Surviving isn’t really the issue in the thing. Doing damage whilst surviving is what has eluded me so far. I’m starting to narrow in in a couple of viable ideas – C-ERPPC + 2x C-ERML proved an interesting light striker on the hardpoint-deficient Prime (though unfortunately prone to Trebuchet Syndrome with all its weapons mounted in fragile arms), while my 4x C-ERML + c-LRM-15 Alpha has put up some surprisingly decent numbers as a mixed harasser/Lurmisher.

Sure, taking one LRM-15 w/2t ammo seems like a horrid waste…but on the Ferret, I’ve been surprised by how naturally it fits. Flank around and throw a few missiles, then watch the enemy team mill around in confusion trying to figure out how an LRM boat – because everyone knows that LRMs are only ever boated, right?! – got around on their flanks. And, of course, quad C-ERML is enough dogfighting armament for most any ‘Mech in this game.

Once I get the things ground out and module’d, and get some more cockpit time in them to catch the hang of them, I could see them being a useful little scavenger. If nothing else, I always enjoy ‘Mechs that can maintain LRM locks while running directly away from enemies, and the IFR can do that without basics. Get it mastered? Yeah, you’re not catching that sucker with anything but an IS light, and with either LRMs or C-ERPPC (or C-LPL. Haven’t figured out which I like better for this thing yet), it can bother you all game long.

[Mcgral18]

Duke Nedo, on 06 November 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

What's your Nova build?

A whole lot of them over 250 matches; generally with 12 lasers, sometimes with a Gauss or UAC10, or PPCs.

[Carrioncrows]

Duke Nedo, on 06 November 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

Don't want so sound like an ass, but could you do that if the opponents were better? I find that it's too big/too slow to dodge when I run it, and I find it rather easy to hit compared to other hit-n-runners when I face it...

That's why I posted up the stats. If out of 16 games I am bound to run into a decent player in there somewhere and yet my dmg, KDR and enjoyment utilizing this mech just keep on trucking.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Aresye, on 05 November 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

There is a single advantage for the Ice Ferret. That's 1 (ONE) advantage. Singular:

- Conquest maps in an IS vs Clan setting.

That's it.

So while I can do okay with it, it's pretty much going to end up being one of those, "Master it out, never touch it again," type mechs, because for any kind of competitive play (aside from the single example above), anything the Ice Ferret can do, there's a mech that can do it better.

Kit Fox has ECM and JJ.
Adder has more firepower.
Stormcrow is a better hit and run mech.
Nova has more firepower and JJ.

For a mech to be viable in a competitive setting, it pretty much needs at least one of these three things:
- ECM
- Good hardpoints and enough tonnage for a decent loadout.
- Jump Jets

The Ice Ferret has absolutely none of those.

Kit Fox has ECM and JJ but is 35 kph slower and has less armor.

Adder might have more firepower but again 35 kph slower and less armor.

Stormcrow is very powerful but again, it is 35 kph slower so absolutely does not have the hit and run escape capability of a Ice Ferret.

Nova has more firepower and JJs but has horrible hit boxes, is sluggish, 52 kph slower and has massive heat issues (in short it sucks).

Ice Ferret on the other hand, can keep up with Firestarters, Ravens, Jenners and Spiders while mounting as much or more firepower and significantly better armor. It can usually kill these mech without issue as well. Also it can, in most cases, preform the same role as these mech while being more durable doing it.

In short there is a ton of things the Ice Ferret can do that no other mech in the game can.

As far as it being competitive, in a PUG absolutely. For community warfare likely not. The thing about CW is that a mech not only has to be competitive, but it also has to be competitive for its weight. At 45 tons it is not a light mech yet performs much the same role and function as 30-35 ton IS mechs. The fact that it can out perform these 30-35 tonners isn't likely going to be enough to outweigh the fact that you have to devote 10 more tons of your 240 ton allocation to bring a Ice Ferret. Most Clanners will likely rather bring a Kit Fox and use those extra 15 tons to upgrade one of their mechs into a Timberwolf.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 06 November 2014 - 01:10 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Mcgral18, on 06 November 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Actually, those are stats of a mech that hasn't had enough matches.

I'd take a Nova over this, which is a testament to how bad it is. Nova has both JJs and hardpoints, this has slightly better hitboxes, but just as easily disarmed. It just never has the chance to kill something (in a head on confrontation) before it loses the arm, unlike the Nova.
It doesn't have the JJs to scale a cliff, so it has to run, either towards the enemy, or turn your back to it. You'll likely lose something important either way.

The Nova Prime is at a 3.38 K/d after 250 matches. That seems appropriate for a bad mech. This simply cannot compare.

It needs help; perhaps PGI will give it some, one day.

Keep in mind, stats are subjective. Any mech that I have that is over a 2.0 K/D is a top performer for me. My top mech has a 2.60 K/D and my global average is currently 1.57 K/D. If 3.38 K/D is bad for you, then obviously you are a much better player than me.

This post also outlines one of the reasons why ELO shouldn't be hidden and we should have leaderboards. Obviously I like to think of myself as a good player but if I am not then what I think are good stats also are not. Without this sort of context, it is very hard to discuss things like this.

[Greenjulius]

You guys posting 3/1 KDRs are probably better than 99% of the community. I consider myself a good player being able to maintain a 1.7 KDR after more than 2000 games. My best mechs have been Kitfoxes, where I've posted ~2.0 KDR after 450 games in them.

I don't understand how you can have so many good games in this mech when all I have is pain. I'm a light mech pilot, running Ravens and Jenners with 6-8 kill games when I'm in top form.

This thing? I lose arms, and when I lose arms, I lose games. It's real bad, and it's plunging my KDR down with each game. This mech is currently my worst performing mech at around .9 KDR. That's after 14 games in each chassis, 42 total games.

My best games in this mech have been posted with 4xERML, and I've picked up 3 kills with a few being stolen from me. Usually I just explode without doing more than 3-400 damage. The most I've posted so far was around 650-700 without artillery.

It plays like an awkwardly big light, with half the firepower of almost all mediums.

Am I just in ELO hell? Am I only being faced up against the best and brightest? I can't believe that, but I'm starting to think it's possible. It's so depressing to get a new mech only to have all it's matches be poor. I'm truly struggling to have fun with this mech.

Edited by Greenjulius, 06 November 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

Allow me to join the crowd... had a good game... but it's still a bad mech..

[Greenjulius]

Duke Nedo, on 06 November 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Allow me to join the crowd... had a good game... but it's still a bad mech..

What's your build?

2xERLL?

I'm desperate to turn this mech into something that can win. Close range builds in high ELO matches don't win. They just die...

Edited by Greenjulius, 06 November 2014 - 02:10 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

Nothing special, 4x cerml, ssrm6, 2t ammo and the rest heatsinks playing mid-range harasser. This particular game turned out fine just, though I derped it in the end... All in all I suck with this chassi.

Most reliable build is probably 4x cerml, tc1 and heatsinks just. However I build this it's situationally ok and generally crap for me.

[Greenjulius]

Duke Nedo, on 06 November 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Most reliable build is probably 4x cerml, tc1 and heatsinks just. However I build this it's situationally ok and generally crap for me.

That's basically my build. I find that with 4xERML, 2 extra DHS are needed. After that, I usually throw in AMS+1/2 ton ammo, TC1 and maybe CAP.

I'll have to try SRM4 or 6 in that torso slot instead, although I hate having more than two groups. I can probably make it work with chain fired ERML. (Just fire them all as fast as needed)

Edited by Greenjulius, 06 November 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Even without elite skills, I have over 2.5 kdr after fifty matches, which is surprising. On the other hand, I have a low winning ratio and low average damage. I think the kdr is a bit misleading for this mech, because it's a great kill-stealer.

My builds:
- 2 erll + tag
- lpl + 3 ml
- 2 ssrm4 + 3 ml

Mcgral18, on 06 November 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

A whole lot of them over 250 matches; generally with 12 lasers, sometimes with a Gauss or UAC10, or PPCs.

Never seen a Nova with gauss before. I toyed with the idea, but couldn't find a good builds. What was yours?

[Mcgral18]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 06 November 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

Never seen a Nova with gauss before. I toyed with the idea, but couldn't find a good builds. What was yours?

Removing half of the mech that I didn't need; both STs have ballistics.

So, strip almost all armour on the sacrificial side, run with I think 25 rounds, and 4 ERMLs.

The UAC10 build let you have the same ammo, but more armour with an extra laser.

Edited by Mcgral18, 06 November 2014 - 05:38 PM.