32 replies to this topic

[Phex]

So this is my first negative post!
Let's start with the quirks:
You have almost doubled the rate of fire of the AC20 and AC5.
Rate of fire, heat and duration of the laser are reduced.
The same applies to the LRM`s and SRM`s.
Damage output is so much higher that it really is not fun!
This game is becoming more and more of an arcade game.
Survival time 3-4 minutes. No resporn. (Not that I want that)

Now for the BAP-Buff:
With a range of r = 360, an ECM is almost useless in the CCQ.
The only advantage is to accompany your team to fire position.
You can no longer protect the team in the CCQ. Is due to its ECM prime target.
Most ECM Mechs are Lights, so have not the armor to survive long.
If you remain out of reach of the BAP, ML, SRM, and Streak are useless.

Please think about these changes again.

Greetings Phex

[CocoaJin]

Phex, on 08 November 2014 - 12:35 AM, said:

Most ECM Mechs are Lights, so have not the armor to survive long.
If you remain out of reach of the BAP, ML, SRM, and Streaks are useless

Greetings Phex

Only if you use circle-jerk tactics. Instead, use Boom n' Zoom tactics. Using a combat strategy that depends on long face times with the enemy while in a lightly armored unit is bad tactics. Your weapons aren't affected by opposing BAP...only your visibility on radar/dorito. So use speed(if you don't have it, you better get some), to make high speed passes against the enemy. Run in, engage the target on the run, do no more than 2 passes, then extend away using your ECM to drop off his radar...then once he is pre-occupied with another target, rinse a repeat.

Do not loiter, do not get in a circle-jerk engagement, do not make a third pass unless you will get the kill on that third pass and it's worth the risk...usually it is not, so just disengage and take the assist, because if he is that badly hurt, a teammate will clean him up soon enough.

The thing to remember, those weapons you mentioned never needed ECM before to be effective...they don't need them now.

[Impyrium]

Yes, and name one IS 'Mech with AC5s or AC20s that are now OP and destroying everything. And I disagree that TTK has dropped noticeably.

And this is the first in some time I've seen someone label ECM as underpowered. That's sure to get a fun reaction. No, BAP is actually now USEFUL for once. Before I never bothered, now it has an actual use.

[StonedDead]

CocoaJin, on 08 November 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:

radar/dorito

Ah, I'm not the only one. Now there is a real issue. The mid '80's asteroid looking dorito radar marks. We need something cooler. The Cool Ranch team vs the Nacho Cheese team needs an update. Maybe it's supposed to be a retro throwback thing.

AUSwarrior24, on 08 November 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

No, BAP is actually now USEFUL for once. Before I never bothered, now it has an actual use.

Actually BAP before this gave you two module upgrades that stacked with the modules if you equipped them too. It gave a target data acquisition and radar range bonus equal to the advanced modules for both, and still does.

Edit: Along with the ability to target powered down mechs, with a small bubble of anti-ECM, all in a small 1.5 ton package. It was useful before this.

Edited by Zekester81, 08 November 2014 - 01:16 AM.

[Kiiyor]

I disagree, mostly.

The biggest quirk benefits so far are to mediums and lighter heavies. So far, I haven't seen a single mech buffed to the point where it's better at it's job than the ScormCrow, TimberWolf, or DireWolf, and i've either purchased or specifically sought out more heavily buffed mechs to see how they perform.

Anything that promotes class equality for the bottom half is more than welcome in my book. I'd even go so far as to say that lights need more buffs.

Bap... well, all that does is make it easier to limit ECM, and that's not a bad thing. 360M is within useable range for almost every weapon in the game, barring small lasers. So, it can shield your force while moving, and can protect support mechs if so required, but it means that ECM is no longer a magic stealth generator for brawling. If you're running ECM and dive under a BAP bubble, you're now on the same footing as every other mech. I see absolutely no problem with this at all. Why is this bad?

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

its bad because the OP and others like him or her are so set in their ways they are incapable of changing their tactics and style to suit the changes in capabilities.

Like someone who drives with their dog on their laps, gets a new car with airbags and complains when the airbags go off in a shunt killing the dog on their lap... then goes and buys another dog and puts it on their lap while driving again... then complains the airbags are making driving unsafe and not fun.

Try thinking less rigidly and find a new role for your ECM light. MLs and SRMs dont work for you anymore? Well, aren't you lucky... turns out there are weapons that fit on a light that go OVER 350m.

Adapt or become obsolete.

Edited by Keira RAVEN McKenna, 08 November 2014 - 04:02 AM.

[Zerberus]

^^ This x100

Life, and esp warfare (which all games are, in reality, a psychological ssubstitute of), are not fair, nor are they static. They are in constant flux.

Which is why we have so many millions of different life forms, each with their own specific niches. Just like we have hundreds of thousands of different ways and tools to wage war with.

Ironically, the one life form that has the most problem with change in general is also the one life form with the most highly developed intellectual capabilities. The one life form that shoud effortlessly be able to understand that change is good and constant, and stagnation is death, yet the only one that regularly refuses to do what even plants do: adapt to the changing situation.

Humans.

Every thread like this is just further proof that humanity was an evolutionary mistake after all, and that the planet would in fact be better off without most if not all of us.

Edited by Zerberus, 08 November 2014 - 03:49 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Phex, You have 55 posts. You will definitely have more negative posts in the future.

Also CCQ?

[Lily from animove]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2014 - 03:58 AM, said:

Phex, You have 55 posts. You will definitely have more negative posts in the future.

Also CCQ?

care to explain what th number of posts has to do with that?
Ah wait someone looks like he measuring something in post counts.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lily from animove, on 08 November 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

care to explain what th number of posts has to do with that?
Ah wait someone looks like he measuring something in post counts.

Not at all. But the longer he stays the more likely it is he will complain about something else.

[Widowmaker1981]

In fairness, i can see this from both sides - ECM was/is very powerful for its tonnage, and based on purely the tonnage of the equipment this change seems fine. BUT the ECM carrier mechs are balanced based on the ECM, and have less hardpoints generally, and have been quirked much less heavily.. so you cant look at the tonnage of the equipment in a vacuum like that (much like you cannot compare Clan to IS weapons without considering all the build restrictions that come with clan mechs)

Personally i think a halfway point would be much better, say 225 - 250m for BAP/CAP

A few outlier quirks need toning down a bit (Dragon 1N, Tbolt 5SS come to mind), but in general the quirk system is very good.

[PitchBlackYeti]

So is it a bad thing that now you have to actually think about how you use your ECM instead of treating it as a invulnerability stealth module? Maybe we will finally see less ECM snipers and more ECMs that actually help their teams...

[Widowmaker1981]

PitchBlackYeti, on 08 November 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

So is it a bad thing that now you have to actually think about how you use your ECM instead of treating it as a invulnerability stealth module? Maybe we will finally see less ECM snipers and more ECMs that actually help their teams...

erm, while i agree that would probably be a good thing, this change will definitely not do that, quite the opposite actually

[PitchBlackYeti]

Widowmaker1981, on 08 November 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

erm, while i agree that would probably be a good thing, this change will definitely not do that, quite the opposite actually

Maybe, maybe not. While the increased BAP counter-ecm range may lead to ECMs trying to stay out of the fight, it may also lead to ECM carriers seeking protection among their team, depends on the player. More ways to counter ECM may make it less tempting to wander off by yourself and play rambo while your team dies under LRM rain.

[Phex]

Widowmaker1981, on 08 November 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

In fairness, i can see this from both sides - ECM was/is very powerful for its tonnage, and based on purely the tonnage of the equipment this change seems fine. BUT the ECM carrier mechs are balanced based on the ECM, and have less hardpoints generally, and have been quirked much less heavily.. so you cant look at the tonnage of the equipment in a vacuum like that (much like you cannot compare Clan to IS weapons without considering all the build restrictions that come with clan mechs)

Personally i think a halfway point would be much better, say 225 - 250m for BAP/CAP

A few outlier quirks need toning down a bit (Dragon 1N, Tbolt 5SS come to mind), but in general the quirk system is very good.

^The first sensible answer!^

I'm not saying that everything should be as it was.
I wanted to point out that there was too much in some aspects.
BAB at 250m would be perfectly in order.

[Widowmaker1981]

PitchBlackYeti, on 08 November 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Maybe, maybe not. While the increased BAP counter-ecm range may lead to ECMs trying to stay out of the fight, it may also lead to ECM carriers seeking protection among their team, depends on the player. More ways to counter ECM may make it less tempting to wander off by yourself and play rambo while your team dies under LRM rain.

But if being with your team in the mix makes it incredibly likely your ECM will be countered, the obvious reaction is to stay further away from the enemy so it does not get countered... its not hard for an ECM raven to stay outside 360m when its guns have a 700m range...

This change makes it so ECM needs to stay further from the enemy to work. Snipers are by default further away, ergo more snipers.

[Phex]

PitchBlackYeti, on 08 November 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Maybe, maybe not. While the increased BAP counter-ecm range may lead to ECMs trying to stay out of the fight, it may also lead to ECM carriers seeking protection among their team, depends on the player. More ways to counter ECM may make it less tempting to wander off by yourself and play rambo while your team dies under LRM rain.

You can not search protection from the team because:
With a BAP reach of 360m the opposing team counters your ECM and you're prime target of all LRM's because you have ecm.
Remember, at a range of 360m it takes only 2 mechs in order to cover the complete line of fire.

And i wount play a Sniper-Raven! It was never build for that. Even if this is the meta!

Edited by Phex, 08 November 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[Tastian]

I love mixing things up like this. Its great to see so many mechs on the field again. And I'm trying mechs I gave up on long ago. Also, PGI is watching the numbers and will tweak if necessary.

[Ph30nix]

Phex, on 08 November 2014 - 12:35 AM, said:

Now for the BAP-Buff:
ECM is almost useless
ECM
ECM .

guys dont fall for it, this is a just a bad attempt at an ECM now has a decent counter QQ post.
just leave a L2P and go to a better troll thread.

[Mothykins]

Zekester81, on 08 November 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

Now there is a real issue. The mid '80's asteroid looking dorito radar marks. We need something cooler. The Cool Ranch team vs the Nacho Cheese team needs an update. Maybe it's supposed to be a retro throwback thing.

... This is now going to be my signature.