496 replies to this topic

[superteds]

Krigg, on 04 December 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Atlas - bad mech. It dont have enough of ballistic + energy slots for 100t mech.
Now i take DWF because Atlas cant do like this:

thanks for that screenshot, with this overwhelming proof we can just lock this thread and en-masse sell our atlas'!

[LordKnightFandragon]

superteds, on 04 December 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

thanks for that screenshot, with this overwhelming proof we can just lock this thread and en-masse sell our atlas'!

But there wasnt even an Atlas in that fight...

[Jetfire]

Atlas does ECM support, brawling and long range support better than a DWF and moves faster.

Direwolf does higher midrange and long range direct damage but moves slower.

The atlas might need a slight boost still, but they are not the same role.

Edited by Jetfire, 04 December 2014 - 12:48 PM.

[Brody319]

Isn't this entire thread based on the idea that the only good assault mechs are the Atlas and Direwhale?

[superteds]

LordKnightFandragon, on 04 December 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

But there wasnt even an Atlas in that fight...

I need to start including sarcasm tags ):

[AlmightyAeng]

Brody319, on 04 December 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

Isn't this entire thread based on the idea that the only good assault mechs are the Atlas and Direwhale?

No...it's based off the idea that they are the only good 100 ton assault mechs currently in game. Because they're the only 2.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 04 December 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[B0oN]

Hey cool ...
another spam thread ...

[Brody319]

Ghost Badger, on 04 December 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

No...it's based off the idea that they are the only good 100 ton assault mechs currently in game. Because they're the only 2.

which means we only have one option. PGI its time to add the Super-Assault class mechs!!!

[Piney II]

And on the 16th we can add the Crab to this argument.

[SirLANsalot]

pwnface, on 04 December 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

I would never pilot an atlas with less than a STD340. Torso twisting is how you keep your mech alive, having less than a STD340 makes it much more difficult to do that. The Atlas in MWO is really only good as a brawler and should always be played as such. If you are taking LRMs or ERPPCs you are doing it wrong.

Torso Twisting is just fine with the 300, which is why its the minimum eng anyone should take on that mech. Like I said, taking anything heavier then a 325 is wasting tonnage toward things that are not importent to the mech. If you can get 16DHS 2 ERLL an AC20 (3t ammo) and 2-3 SRM6 (2-3t ammo) with a 340 rated eng, then come talk to me

superteds, on 04 December 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

ammo out of ST and CT, you spend a lot of time fighting in structure in an atlas, no need to risk blowing your side/centre early. put it in the arms and legs, and the arm ammo will be used up long before it becomes a risk.

if you are in structure on your CT as any mech, your just about dead anyways and having ammo in the CT makes NO difference. Just 1 ton of that SRM ammo in the ST is fine, if it really becomes an issue, just put it in the leg. And never put ammo in the arms, they are always the first things that get blown off and usually the ammo (if any left) will blow with the arm.

Head/CT/Legs are the 3 key places to "hide" ammo, followed by putting some into the torsos if you run out of room. If you have more then 1 ton of ammo in a Torso, then CASE is a must.

[Johnny Z]

Piney, on 04 December 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

And on the 16th we can add the Crab to this argument.

This and Hero mechs and the queue not being assault heavy since Omni mech tech has been added is why this topic is so relevant to game play balance. Are the two 100 tonners balanced or not and can the soon to be added 100 tonner have a chance on the field. The answer, it will be brutal for the 100 ton King Crab with none mastery and less than maxed modules.

[pwnface]

SirLANsalot, on 04 December 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Torso Twisting is just fine with the 300, which is why its the minimum eng anyone should take on that mech. Like I said, taking anything heavier then a 325 is wasting tonnage toward things that are not importent to the mech. If you can get 16DHS 2 ERLL an AC20 (3t ammo) and 2-3 SRM6 (2-3t ammo) with a 340 rated eng, then come talk to me




if you are in structure on your CT as any mech, your just about dead anyways and having ammo in the CT makes NO difference. Just 1 ton of that SRM ammo in the ST is fine, if it really becomes an issue, just put it in the leg. And never put ammo in the arms, they are always the first things that get blown off and usually the ammo (if any left) will blow with the arm.

Head/CT/Legs are the 3 key places to "hide" ammo, followed by putting some into the torsos if you run out of room. If you have more then 1 ton of ammo in a Torso, then CASE is a must.

Im going to have to disagree. Torso testing aside, the extra speed helps immensely for closing distance on enemy mechs.

[Void Angel]

PS: 57kph v. 63kph is not running circles around anything. Additionally, proposing a UAC/5 Atlas build as a Dire Wolf counter is beyond foolhardy - because nothing out-stares a Starebear.

[Water Bear]

superteds, on 04 December 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

thanks for that screenshot, with this overwhelming proof we can just lock this thread and en-masse sell our atlas'!

Screenshots always have been and always will be anecdotal evidence. Just because one person did a thing in one screenshot doesn't mean the thing they did is typical. ...Although the whale is pretty good.

Truthfully I have seen whales carry matches like that, and the piloting...was not really that impressive. With a mech as slow and strong as a dire whale, the old strategy of hiding until the end of the match and cleaning up the wounded enemy works even better than it ever did.

Void Angel, on 04 December 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

PS: 57kph v. 63kph is not running circles around anything. Additionally, proposing a UAC/5 Atlas build as a Dire Wolf counter is beyond foolhardy - because nothing out-stares a Starebear.

People seem to think a 5 kph difference matters. I always think: Have you ever set your throttle to 5 kph? It's like you're not moving. That's the speed difference between those mechs.

Edited by Water Bear, 04 December 2014 - 01:08 PM.

[Bilbo]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

This and Hero mechs and the queue not being assault heavy since Omni mech tech has been added is why this topic is so relevant to game play balance. Are the two 100 tonners balanced or not and can the soon to be added 100 tonner have a chance on the field. The answer, it will be brutal for the 100 ton King Crab with none mastery and less than maxed modules.

It was pretty brutal for the masses of un-mastered Direwhales when they were first introduced as well. Thankfully, I have not had to take an un-mastered mech into battle for quite some time.

[Moonlander]

Krigg, on 04 December 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

Atlas - bad mech. It dont have enough of ballistic + energy slots for 100t mech.
Now i take DWF because Atlas cant do like this:

Please tell me that you're being funny?

I can post several 800-1200 matches on AS7s, BNCs, IFRs, STKs among others... Just because you had 1, 1500 damage DWF match doesn't mean the AS7 is a terrible mech. How many matches like that can you really say you've had? I can also show you at least a dozen 1200 damage matches with 6-8 kills on a DDC. The Atlas does have some terrible variants but it's FAR from a terrible mech. There are HUNDREDS of SS's in my folder where there are DWFs doing UNDER 200 damage and the Atlai on both teams are eclipsing them in damage.

Can the DWF do huge amounts of damage? Yes. Can an Atlas do huge amounts of damage? Yes. Will they always do it? No. Are they different to pilot? Yes. Is one better than the other? No. Do people think one is better than the other? Yes. Why do they think? Cause reasons. More specifically because people who post 1 SS of a single good match they had and claim it as truth.

You should edit your post to include "Now I take DWF because I can't make an Atlas do this"

The only thing I feel a DDC in particular needs is a buff to the RT because of the AC20. We got a quirk, it's still not enough. Anything to help the AC20 survive longer is better than any weapons quirks it could get, IMO. I do like the AC20 velocity tho... super nice.

Edited by Moonlander, 04 December 2014 - 01:20 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

SirLANsalot, on 04 December 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

If you can get 16DHS 2 ERLL an AC20 (3t ammo) and 2-3 SRM6 (2-3t ammo) with a 340 rated eng, then come talk to me

Well...that's embarassing. I upgraded your minimum mandated 2xSRM6 to 3xSRM4, because it's better. Enjoy.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...50e6a71d9f9bdbc

Edited by Ghost Badger, 04 December 2014 - 01:17 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Bilbo, on 04 December 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

It was pretty brutal for the masses of un-mastered Direwhales when they were first introduced as well. Thankfully, I have not had to take an un-mastered mech into battle for quite some time.

Good point. That goes for all assaults though, they are tough to master as compared to any other weight class except weak light class mech.

Another big part of this is how many players have up and quit after trying to master the atlas or those that feel completely ripped off that they got a boars Head Hero Atlas etc etc.

Those mastering the DW know they will have a powerfull mech at the end with modules and mastery. Atlases not so easy to assume. Really the only Atlas that stands a chance in game as an assault is a slow standard engine atlas with AMS, alot of experience, mastery and some luck and team support.

The match where an atlas gets a huge score are few and far between period.

Better that any players getting the King Crab know the score when they are released though.

Quirks were to balance the Omni equipment vrs Battlemech equipment not the XL engines. There is more being done with the Xl engines some time although I am not sure what.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 December 2014 - 01:18 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

SirLANsalot, on 04 December 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Torso Twisting is just fine with the 300, which is why its the minimum eng anyone should take on that mech. Like I said, taking anything heavier then a 325 is wasting tonnage toward things that are not importent to the mech. If you can get 16DHS 2 ERLL an AC20 (3t ammo) and 2-3 SRM6 (2-3t ammo) with a 340 rated eng, then come talk to me

Additionally...if you're running that loadout with a 325 (which, incidentally, has the same # of DHS slots available as a 340) how are YOU fitting it? If you just switch out engines then you've got extra tonnage and no slots, with the number of heatsinks you've mandated...
Unless you AREN'T using Endo-Steel...in which case to get your larger slot-value SRM6's, you're stripping ARMOR for that extra tonnage...and a LOT of it.

The only way you're fitting that many slots of weapons without stripping armor AND maintaing 16 DHS is if you run a 300. Without Endo. And because of your weapon slots, more of those DHS are going in the arms, which, if you're torso-twist-brawling, means that your heat efficiency TANKS the more YOU tank.


So the longer you brawl and soak damage the less often you'll be able to shoot. And both are STILL twisting slower...at the SAME heat efficiency with more exposed heatsinks.

I disapprove.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 04 December 2014 - 01:34 PM.

[Jiang Wei]

Gauvan, on 04 December 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

That's not to say there isn't an issue--Atlases are brawlers and have to somehow survive to reach brawling range.

This statement is false. The atlas is not pigeonholed to being only a brawler. It has however become the but end of the joke.

Things like host state rewind, make the atlas the easiest target in the world to hit, and very difficult for the atlas to return fire because of its slow agility.

As far as range is concerned, the guass rifle used to be a useful addition to any longer range atlas build, until they added that stupid trigger timer which was completely uneccessary.

Edited by Jiang Wei, 04 December 2014 - 01:35 PM.