496 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

Even post-quirk, piloting an Atlas simply puts your team at a huge disadvantage because you're taking up a Direwolf slot.

But, you say, "Atlases can outbrawl direwolves!"

Let's assume that this statement is true (it's not), brawling range is 270 meters for an atlas with AC20 and SRMs. I will admit that this is by far the best way to run an atlas. However, the combination of slow speed and short range means you don't really get to engage in your effective range unless you have an entire team that's willing to back you up. This is compounded by the fact that UAC direwolves out-DPS atlases at all ranges regardless of build.

So let's say you want to build an atlas that can fight back. That means equipping ranged weapons in low-slung torso and arm hardpoints, or filling your missile hardpoints with LRMs. LRM assaults put the team at a disadvantage because you're wasting your high armor capacity, and the low-slung hardpoints mean you pretty much always get the second shot, or no shot at all, against targets engaging from range, and you can't use cover effectively.

Atlases simply have no effective role in this game when compared to a Direwolf taking the same spot.

[superteds]

I think there's still a place in the game for a mech carrying AC20, lots of SRM and arm lasers. You could spin this argument to include basically every assault (inc clan) excluding probably the stalker, and it still wouldn't be valid.

There does need to be something done about line-holding/pushing assaults who boat LRM though, now that's a waste of a chassis.

Edited by superteds, 04 December 2014 - 11:05 AM.

[Shatterpoint]

Working as intended, DireWolf is now the top dog and is almost always piloted by someone without the balls to be in a front line capable mech, hope you can pick off the rest of the team and 9vs1-2 the remaining wolf/wolves

[Brody319]

King Crab

[Joseph Mallan]

Lefty Lucy, on 04 December 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Even post-quirk, piloting an Atlas simply puts your team at a huge disadvantage because you're taking up a Direwolf slot.

But, you say, "Atlases can outbrawl direwolves!"

Let's assume that this statement is true (it's not), brawling range is 270 meters for an atlas with AC20 and SRMs. I will admit that this is by far the best way to run an atlas. However, the combination of slow speed and short range means you don't really get to engage in your effective range unless you have an entire team that's willing to back you up. This is compounded by the fact that UAC direwolves out-DPS atlases at all ranges regardless of build.

So let's say you want to build an atlas that can fight back. That means equipping ranged weapons in low-slung torso and arm hardpoints, or filling your missile hardpoints with LRMs. LRM assaults put the team at a disadvantage because you're wasting your high armor capacity, and the low-slung hardpoints mean you pretty much always get the second shot, or no shot at all, against targets engaging from range, and you can't use cover effectively.

Atlases simply have no effective role in this game when compared to a Direwolf taking the same spot.

Lefty I use my Atlas as Dire Support to very good advantage. Second It does not take up a slot for a Dire Wolf. I'm an inner Sphere player, That slot belongs to me if I'm in it. That means it belongs to an Atlas.

[Water Bear]

superteds, on 04 December 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

I think there's still a place in the game for a mech carrying AC20, lots of SRM and arm lasers.

AC/20 and SRM 18 never goes out of style, especially if you're using a -D-DC.

I still use my -D-DC and it seems to perform just like it always has. Pugs think if it's not on radar, it doesn't exist. Seems like you can always get a kill and 500 damage in a -D-DC, even if you screw up badly.

[Monkey Lover]

Atlas needs a buff to the sides.Everything else is fine.

[nitra]

Only thing atlases need is the ballistics slots to be rearranged to either they reside in both arms or both torso's.

they all residing in one torso has always crippled the atlas and since the game has matured more it about time to release this restriction .

Doing this would free up the build options and allow for the atlas to shine.

[SgtMagor]

IIC Atlas? with out melee, Atlas is a tough ride compared to the Daishi...

Edited by SgtMagor, 04 December 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Water Bear, on 04 December 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

AC/20 and SRM 18 never goes out of style, especially if you're using a -D-DC.

I still use my -D-DC and it seems to perform just like it always has. Pugs think if it's not on radar, it doesn't exist. Seems like you can always get a kill and 500 damage in a -D-DC, even if you screw up badly.

Not even close to true. Clan mediums or lights can hit you with medium lasers and you effectively can't fight back. Direwolves outfight you at any range at all. It's a 100 ton mech, it's supposed to be feared. Right now I see atlases as easy kills.

[Bilbo]

I'll take my Atlases over a Direwolf any day, besides in two weeks it wont matter as the deciding factor of which 100 ton mech you take will be which side you are on.

[Joseph Mallan]

nitra, on 04 December 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

Only thing atlases need is the ballistics slots to be rearranged to either they reside in both arms or both torso's.

they all residing in one torso has always crippled the atlas and since the game has matured more it about time to release this restriction .

Doing this would free up the build options and allow for the atlas to shine.

And would fill the slot a Devastator is meant to fill!

[0bsidion]

While I wouldn't be mad if they decided to buff the Atlas, I run mine with the AC/20 which is just plain nasty in close quarters. I ran some matches with the loyalty Atlas over the weekend and I believe I had at least one match with 3 kills, which is pretty decent for me.

[process]

I would argue that the biggest contributor to the range issue is map design. On maps like Alpine, Caustic and Tourmaline, there just aren't many places where fighting occurs at 270 meters. You kinda have to just camp until something comes up.

I would also argue there still isn't anything really more effective than a standard engine, AC20 and SRMs in a brawl. A Dire Wolf's AC spam works great until you realize you need to use your torso to spread damage.

I wouldn't mind seeing a buff to Atlas torso twist speed by 10% or so.

[Joseph Mallan]

Water Bear, on 04 December 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

AC/20 and SRM 18 never goes out of style, especially if you're using a -D-DC.

I still use my -D-DC and it seems to perform just like it always has. Pugs think if it's not on radar, it doesn't exist. Seems like you can always get a kill and 500 damage in a -D-DC, even if you screw up badly.

For me its more like 350 damage... but your point is solid!

[Alistair Winter]

I agree, but doesn't this pretty much apply to 80% of mechs in the game?

Anyway, some survival quirks for the Atlas would be great. It can't match the DW's firepower, so it should be able to beat it by sheer durability.

[Joseph Mallan]

Alistair Winter, on 04 December 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

I agree, but doesn't this pretty much apply to 80% of mechs in the game?

Anyway, some survival quirks for the Atlas would be great. It can't always match the DW's firepower, so it should be able to beat it by sheer durability.

Fixed that for ya.

It depends on the pilot, but My 97 point alpha is a match for quite a few Dire Wolves.

[superteds]

A smart atlas already can be durable... it's torso weapons are fire and forget stuff, so press the button, twist and fire your arm lasers. Direwolf (PPC/Gauss fit aside) is all time on target.

wrt; the range issue, a DDC can happily fit AC20, 3xSRM and 2xLLAS with the LLAS covering you to 700ish fine. 4t of AC20 is enough to have the odd 400-500m shot too.

[Gauvan]

I wouldn't say that a team with three DW's will always win against a team with three Atlases--I think it's very dependant on the amount of cover on the map.

That's not to say there isn't an issue--Atlases are brawlers and have to somehow survive to reach brawling range. In solo queue it's really hard to get the most out of the chassis as it's hard to get backup for a charge and LRMs are very common. I find you don't usually get involved until later in the match and that's both boring and you have 100 tons of your team's potential sitting idle.

[Joe Mallad]

if we can have symmetrical Ballistic load outs like duel Gauss, Ac-10s, Ac-20s on a heavy mech like the K-2 that was really never ment to have them, why cant we have this on a 100 ton Atlas that should be able to very easily have it. The Atlas model even has the empty spot on its left torso where another ballistic would fit. It would be a very easy addition for the art/modeling team. Besides, with all the DAKKA the Dire wolf can have and later (Executioner) as we all know its coming... its time for the IS to get the King Crab and updated Atlas that can keep pace with them.