1236 replies to this topic

[Golden Vulf]

The new Variants are pretty silly for the most part. What the is the point of the Summoner variant? We can already make that. The Warhawk center torso energy hardpoint is neat. What am I supposed to do with the new Gargoyle? Boat small lasers? That is not the best use of 80 tons in my drop deck!

Only the Timberwolf, Direwolf, and Stormcrow got any decent omnipods that inspire new builds.

I thought the whole point was to increase diversity? How many times do we have to tell them that the bad clan mechs need new hard points and endo unlocked. They keep prattling on about canon variants for OMNIMECHS.

In CANON, OMNIMECHS can take ANYTHING they want!

The Summoner is dead. I really wanted to take a Summoner and a Gargoyle in my drop deck, but I can't justify forcing that onto my team when I could take 2 Timberwolf variants instead.

Summoner is dead, let us just talk about the funeral and move on to the future.

They refused to save it. All it needs is a right torso omnipod with a single energy hard point and endo unlocked, they refused to do that. The poor Summoner is dead.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 20 January 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[Golden Vulf]

I do have an idea though.

How about we start a new poll for each clan omnimech. Each mech will have a choice of 3 different omnipods (not a center torso). Then we vote on them and see what single omnpod most people want on a mech. I would say there needs to be a conservative mindset so we don't get disregarded off hand. I.E. no 6-7 hard point +ECM omnipods for any of the mechs.

We could discuss the possible options before putting the 3 we as a community deem the most balanced and helpful options. We could actually do this just for the poorly performing mechs and not make any suggestions for Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Direwolf, since general consensus for those mechs are that they are pretty good as is.

My idea of conservative and helpful options would be:

Summoner-
Right torso: 1 energy
Left Torso: 2 missile
Left Torso: 1 energy 1 missile

Gargoyle-
Left Torso: 2 missile
Right Arm: 1 ballistic 1 energy

Mist Lynx
Right Torso: 1 energy
Head: Hard locked ECM to replace hard locked Active Probe
Left Arm: ECM, 1 energy

Edited by Golden Vulf, 20 January 2015 - 08:35 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 19 January 2015 - 11:58 PM, said:

I should have been more specific.

If you want more firepower, you will very likely end up taking XL on the Cataphract to compete with the Summoner.

If you want the same level of durability of the Summoner, your firepower options are generally going to be crippled in comparison.

The Summoner is better at ballistics IMO due to JJs. The Hellbringer does't worry about that and relies on its ECM to level the field. I would still personally use the Hellbringer over the Summoner any day though.

I don't focus on speed, since the Summoner wins that matchup... but what affects it more is torso twist speed. The Summoner has exceptional torso twist speed naturally just by definition (large engine) in that it allows to shield itself better (well, that an the arms, but the majority of the its weapons are on the arms - the Cataphract isn't exactly dependent on them).




I don't find that particular build acceptable.. only because of heat concerns (11DHS is too few for me at this point in time) but it has a major dependency on teammates. Yes, I'm aware this is a team oriented game, but I honestly hate being captive by this kinda of weakness (unable to be self-sufficient). At least the meta Dragon Slayer has a lot more usable DHS... this is just not as appealing.

I would agree it would be fine competitively (it's specialized by design), but you can't honestly suggest it for the normal "average" PUG play.

all depends on one's playstyle. 35% heat is better than 90% of the assaults running around, and most clan heavies. I'll tell you what I never see is any serious comp players using an XL on a CTF.

If I were running my build, mind you, 1 PPC would be dropped for lasers and other non ppfld weapons. Or because I am not "1337" and get to kickbutt AND have fun,. run something utterly silly, instead.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 January 2015 - 08:55 AM.

[Ozric]

There are several memes and gifs I could use to colourfully describe my reaction to the new Summoner variant, but instead I shall buck the meta and use a word. Bafflement.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ozric, on 20 January 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

There are several memes and gifs I could use to colourfully describe my reaction to the new Summoner variant, but instead I shall buck the meta and use a word. Bafflement.

Lol, whats even different about it? Nothing that I can see....

Lol.....

[Widowmaker1981]

Ozric, on 20 January 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

There are several memes and gifs I could use to colourfully describe my reaction to the new Summoner variant, but instead I shall buck the meta and use a word. Bafflement.

There are only 2 timeline variants left, the A and the C. Both have identical hardpoint layouts, and PGI are defintely sticking to the variant weapon hardpoints from TT (and i know omnimechs by lore can put anything anywhere, but so can battlemechs with full customisation, which is what we kinda have. Plus the graphic design to make omnipods with any combination of weapons that fit work would be.. hard. impossibly hard?)

If they REALLY wanted to help the summoner they could add the 'G' variant ST omnipods (3M LT and RT) but that variant has a heavy large laser so its out of timeline.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 20 January 2015 - 09:14 AM.

[Deathlike]

Detriitus, on 20 January 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

I just don't get it: What is this "new" Summoner-Variant supposed to change?

Seans sneak peak

Only if they released the Summoner-M.

At the very least... you could at least "try" with the Summoner-F (if sarna is to be believed - ironically a Hellbringer-F would help out a little).

Mordin Ashe, on 20 January 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

This sneak peak made me sad. How is Russ hoping this will help Clans in CW? Most of these builds are ****.

Adder with 1 ballistics in its arm? Should I be imperssed? It already has a ballistics hardpoint and doesn't have tonnage for 2 ballistic weapons. You can take 2 MGs but then you need to take 2 big energy weapons you, guess what, don't have the tonnage for! Pointless.
Ice Ferret... is these some change? All I see are more meaningless omnipods, perhaps I missed something.

Mad Dog! Now this is a jewel. Is a Mech with 76 missing armor points, 2 gausses and whooping 40 gauss slugs supposed to impress us?! It is horrible! Absolutely horrible! Not even close to what Jagers/Cataphracts can do.

Moving on, Mist Lynx pretending to be a KF. Nice try but pointless, who wants tripple AMS takes KF that can still have more punch than ML. Useless Mech, it can't do anything except dying, even jesusbox wouldn't help much. This mech needs quirks to make up for poor hardpoints, bad upgrade combination and stock equipment.

I hope we're not entirely basing our opinion on stock... just hardpoints.

Quote

Nova, SCR, Summoner, Warhawk - nothing new here, move along.

Nova getting the 2nd torso weapon is kinda fairly important.

Stormcrow gets better energy if you go full missile (the best you could do is like 3E with 4M).

Summoner... is a tragedy.

Warhawk energy CT is actually pretty damn important.

Quote

Last jest: a Timby! The very same build we can already run today. Somehow this is supposed to be good and shiny... but it isn't, it is as ordinary as it can get. Sorry. Weren't we supposed to get a Timby with 8 missile slots or something? This one is as ordinary as it can get.

People have complained about the S's locked in JJs, so.. they get to lurm more with the release.

Quote

Juicy things? DW and Gargoyle. DW has many energy hardpoints which should be useful, plus JJs. Gargoyle can now properly boat small lasers, making Nova feel even worse.

Gargoyle is still bad, especially with the large arms. The hardpoints are virtually useless (the 1B arm should have better quirks than the Prime's equivalent).

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 20 January 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Only if they released the Summoner-M.

At the very least... you could at least "try" with the Summoner-F (if sarna is to be believed - ironically a Hellbringer-F would help out a little).




I hope we're not entirely basing our opinion on stock... just hardpoints.



Nova getting the 2nd torso weapon is kinda fairly important.

Stormcrow gets better energy if you go full missile (the best you could do is like 3E with 4M).

Summoner... is a tragedy.

Warhawk energy CT is actually pretty damn important.




People have complained about the S's locked in JJs, so.. they get to lurm more with the release.




Gargoyle is still bad, especially with the large arms. The hardpoints are virtually useless (the 1B arm should have better quirks than the Prime's equivalent).

I think most people still SRM with the S, and will with the D.

But the Summoner C? Brings NOTHING to the table. It apes existing hardpoint combos, and gives you a whopping -15% heat for ballistics.......

game changer, gonna stop them Thunderbolts in their tracks right there!!!!

[kapusta11]

What Summoner needs is 15 damage CERPPC, individual weapons should not suffer because boating is the best way to go.

Edited by kapusta11, 21 January 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

kapusta11, on 21 January 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

What Summoner needs is 15 damage CERPPC, individual weapons should not suffer because boating is the best wey to go.

yeah, on that I totally agree.

So dang sick of that. Still, seems like Endo is the missing ingredient, though. the PPC would be great, but it also needs adequate tonnage to use it's missile and more importantly, ballistics options.

[InspectorG]

Well...

We have 4 sub-par Summoners now.

Lets see if PGI can work some quirk magic.

Cuz if we aint getting pods with better hardpoints or unlocked equips, thats all we got left.

Maybe we can start a Guild of Stock Summoners. Get a following like the Locusts.

"Summoner- King of Stock mode matches..."

Yeah, dont see that happening.

[SgtMagor]

PGI please free up some tonnage and give the jump jet boost for fixed jump jets on the mech thx, Summoner appreciates the reach around

[Metus regem]

kapusta11, on 21 January 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

What the clans need is 15 damage CERPPC, individual weapons should not suffer because boating is the best way to go.

Fixed that for you, but even with what you did post, I agree. Would be nice for the Timber Wolf D, Adder Prime or Warhawk.

[SgtMagor]

want to see the 15 damage erppc short out the hud ftw!

[Mcgral18]

Metus regem, on 21 January 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

Fixed that for you, but even with what you did post, I agree. Would be nice for the Timber Wolf D, Adder Prime or Warhawk.

Don't forget the Nova-A!

For some reason it got a cooldown quirk, rather than 10% less heat per arm.

[Metus regem]

Mcgral18, on 21 January 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

Don't forget the Nova-A!

For some reason it got a cooldown quirk, rather than 10% less heat per arm.

Totally forgot about the Nova A... then again, I never really used Novas either in TT, RPG, or PC gaming....

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 21 January 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Totally forgot about the Nova A... then again, I never really used Novas either in TT, RPG, or PC gaming....

love Novas...except in MWO. Loved them in TT and MW3 though.

Metus regem, on 21 January 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

Fixed that for you, but even with what you did post, I agree. Would be nice for the Timber Wolf D, Adder Prime or Warhawk.

maybe as an anti boating thing, put a 1.5 cooldown in, and any fired over 2 during that time do half damage?

Because last thing we need is the Warhawk being even better than the pre GH 4x PPC Stalker.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 January 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

love Novas...except in MWO. Loved them in TT and MW3 though.


maybe as an anti boating thing, put a 1.5 cooldown in, and any fired over 2 during that time do half damage?

Because last thing we need is the Warhawk being even better than the pre GH 4x PPC Stalker.

But the Warhawk was a better Awesome, than the Awesome in TT.... mind you every time I used the Stock Prime in TT and fired the quad cERPPC's the LRM 10 ammo ALWAYS cooked off....

[Josef Koba]

The Boz, on 21 December 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Hint: There are literally zero IS mechs that use standard structure instead of ES for 14 slots.

I use standard structure on my four large laser Stalker build. So I guess not literally zero.

[mogs01gt]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 January 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

yeah, on that I totally agree.

So dang sick of that. Still, seems like Endo is the missing ingredient, though. the PPC would be great, but it also needs adequate tonnage to use it's missile and more importantly, ballistics options.

The more I use the Summoner, the more I have come to realize that ballistics are simply too heavy for it.