1236 replies to this topic

[WhoDidTheElf]

I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but what about a 360 degree torso rotation quirk, much like the urbies? Now I know it won't help with load outs, which is what the Summoner suffers from dearly, but it would provide for some pretty awesome brawling prowess. (5 JJ's with 360 degree torso rotation? Wooh)

Now in place of allowing for endo, if that is seen as too drastic (it's not really), what about hard point inflation? While it doesn't have 50 tons to play with, giving it a few more energy hard points, or missile hard points, would go a long way to improving the load out for the mech. Having 8 energy hard points would allow for a nice 4 CML and 4 CSL build with plenty of maneuverability while still packing a punch and really not altering much to the mech.

[Torgun]

I've hovered over the sell button for my summoner several times recently, and I don't even need the extra mech bay. I'm just sick of seeing that pointless mech in my mechbay that the devs refuse to actually try and make it become decent. Just give it 2 energy hardpoints more and be done with it, that shouldn't take a lot of time and effort. Then at least it won't feel outgunned in most configs even against medium mechs. It's no wonder really since with no endo or ferro and fixed jumpjets, you have so little tonnage left for a heavy and couple that with a lack of energy hardpoints so you can't even mount more lighter weapons and you've got a badly balanced mech all-round.

[LordKnightFandragon]

WhoDidTheElf, on 02 February 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but what about a 360 degree torso rotation quirk, much like the urbies? Now I know it won't help with load outs, which is what the Summoner suffers from dearly, but it would provide for some pretty awesome brawling prowess. (5 JJ's with 360 degree torso rotation? Wooh)

Now in place of allowing for endo, if that is seen as too drastic (it's not really), what about hard point inflation? While it doesn't have 50 tons to play with, giving it a few more energy hard points, or missile hard points, would go a long way to improving the load out for the mech. Having 8 energy hard points would allow for a nice 4 CML and 4 CSL build with plenty of maneuverability while still packing a punch and really not altering much to the mech.

270 maybe. But 360? It only really works on the Urbie....

[Bishop Steiner]

Torgun, on 03 February 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

I've hovered over the sell button for my summoner several times recently, and I don't even need the extra mech bay. I'm just sick of seeing that pointless mech in my mechbay that the devs refuse to actually try and make it become decent. Just give it 2 energy hardpoints more and be done with it, that shouldn't take a lot of time and effort. Then at least it won't feel outgunned in most configs even against medium mechs. It's no wonder really since with no endo or ferro and fixed jumpjets, you have so little tonnage left for a heavy and couple that with a lack of energy hardpoints so you can't even mount more lighter weapons and you've got a badly balanced mech all-round.

while I agree with the feeling, just forcing it into "standard clan laservomit mode" won't make it any more enjoyable for me, at least. Especially since pretty much every other clan heavy can vomit better.

[Anakha]

Here is my take on what is needed to balance the Summoner with the other Clan Mechs:

- Give the mech the ability to upgrade to Endo Steel IS
- If you are not going to do this then i think the Fixed Jump Jets should be set to cost half the weight they do now since they are fixed and not removable. Fixed JJ's need to have some type of advantage over removable JJ's on other mechs.
- I would also add some quirk for the internal structure or armor on the legs.
- I would move one of the Fixed Structure slots from the Right torso to the left torso (where the missle launcher is so this makes sense it would have more fixed structure) as this would enable you to fit large ballistics on the RT.
- On the Summoner RT/LT with ballistics on them i would add 25% Projectile speed and cooldown for ballistic weapons.
- On the arm mounted energy pods i would add in 25% heat reduction and cooldown for energy weapons.
- I would add in a RT omnipod with 2-3 energy hard points.
- I would add in a LT with 2 missle pods or would add in a cooldown quirk if you are not going to add a 2nd missile omnipod

I think those quirks would make it more competitive and balanced with the better clan mechs

Edited by Anakha, 03 February 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Anakha, on 03 February 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

Here is my take on what is needed to balance the Summoner with the other Clan Mechs:

- Give the mech the ability to upgrade to Endo Steel IS
- If you are not going to do this then i think the Fixed Jump Jets should be set to cost half the weight they do now since they are fixed and not removable. Fixed JJ's need to have some type of advantage over removable JJ's on other mechs.
- I would also add some quirk for the internal structure or armor on the legs.
- I would move one of the Fixed Structure slots from the Right torso to the left torso (where the missle launcher is so this makes sense it would have more fixed structure) as this would enable you to fit large ballistics on the RT.
- On the Summoner RT/LT with ballistics on them i would add 25% Projectile speed and cooldown for ballistic weapons.
- On the arm mounted energy pods i would add in 25% heat reduction and cooldown for energy weapons.
- I would add in a RT omnipod with 2-3 energy hard points.
- I would add in a LT with 2 missle pods or would add in a cooldown quirk if you are not going to add a 2nd missile omnipod

I think those quirks would make it more competitive and balanced with the better clan mechs

The RT energy omni might be almost enough to give it a good boost, although then it's severely hot running.

I'd love to see the true Jumping mechs given quirks that drastically reduce falling damage, Heck if the summoner was allowed to jump to max height and unload PPC+Gauss then not worry about leg damage it could have a nice niche, I've used that in CW and it was a great build for gate opening stage but getting up high enough was an issue. Oh a massive JJ acceleration boost would be nice.

Other ideas without endo/JJ removal; cERPPC heat reduction&cooldown, LBX spread reduction to the point it was almost IS AC like along with cooldown , substantial gauss cool down

[Detriitus]

Anakha, on 03 February 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

- I would move one of the Fixed Structure slots from the Right torso to the left torso (where the missle launcher is so this makes sense it would have more fixed structure) as this would enable you to fit large ballistics on the RT.

This very much!

All the other points are valid, but this would make a difference within the given set of hardpoints right away.


Edit: Btw why not give the Summoner the Hellbringer Prime LT?

Edited by Detriitus, 03 February 2015 - 12:54 PM.

[Anakha]

Looks like Summoners and the rest of the mechs are getting their quirks on the next patch Russ tweeted today so hopefully the Summoner ones will be nice!

[Vanguard319]

Just my 2 cents:

when they nerfed the Clan ER PPC, they killed one of the Summoner's principle weapons. I would propose getting rid of the splash dmg in favor of the full 15 dmg to one area. I would also suggest increasing the rate of fire of Autocannon bursts, so that while they are still DoT, they have a better chance of hitting with the entire burst instead of part of it. As for the mech itself, the JJ nerfs killed it's mobility, and it's clear they need to go. JJ values should be restored closer to what they once were, and if ppl rage, too bad: Mechs with Jump Jets (not just the Summoner, ALL JJ equipped mechs.) are supposed to be highly mobile

[Golden Vulf]

Anakha, on 05 February 2015 - 08:47 PM, said:

Looks like Summoners and the rest of the mechs are getting their quirks on the next patch Russ tweeted today so hopefully the Summoner ones will be nice!

Unless the Summoner quirk is '3.5 extra tons of pod space and hard point inflation' it will still be mostly useless.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 06 February 2015 - 12:35 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Vanguard319, on 05 February 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Just my 2 cents:

when they nerfed the Clan ER PPC, they killed one of the Summoner's principle weapons. I would propose getting rid of the splash dmg in favor of the full 15 dmg to one area. I would also suggest increasing the rate of fire of Autocannon bursts, so that while they are still DoT, they have a better chance of hitting with the entire burst instead of part of it. As for the mech itself, the JJ nerfs killed it's mobility, and it's clear they need to go. JJ values should be restored closer to what they once were, and if ppl rage, too bad: Mechs with Jump Jets (not just the Summoner, ALL JJ equipped mechs.) are supposed to be highly mobile

Yeah, the Summoner and the WHK should both get a Special ERPPC that is 15/15, only available to them. Simply name it CERPPC and it follows all the same stat tracking, but its a 15/15 just for those 2 mechs.

[Volume]

Great original post and discussion here. Glad to see people trying to find a way to give the Summoner some help.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Volume, on 06 February 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

Great original post and discussion here. Glad to see people trying to find a way to give the Summoner some help.

But ultimately, it all means nothing, cuz I guess even PGI thinks clans are OP.....I heard somewhere Clan energy nerfs are in the works.

[Bishop Steiner]

Volume, on 06 February 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

Great original post and discussion here. Glad to see people trying to find a way to give the Summoner some help.

all I can do is keep trying, keep positive. took me nearly 3 years to get my Urbanmech, but I kept knocking, and it arrived.

SO hopefully by posting logical ideas, well thought out posts and such and keeping the subject in front of PGIs eyes, we can eventually effect the changes needed. There are some real good ideas people have posted on here, so I am grateful for all the contributions to the discussioN!

[VtTimber]

Simple solution to this issue. Make ALL jumpjets (IS & Clan) locked to their default quantity and then make jump jets work like they should, not these silly hover jets we have now.

This will give all JJ equipped mechs the balance they require for having fixed JJ's. It will also create the niche that was supposed to be JJs.

[Bishop Steiner]

VtTimber, on 06 February 2015 - 05:44 AM, said:

Simple solution to this issue. Make ALL jumpjets (IS & Clan) locked to their default quantity and then make jump jets work like they should, not these silly hover jets we have now.

This will give all JJ equipped mechs the balance they require for having fixed JJ's. It will also create the niche that was supposed to be JJs.

Doesn't actually do much to help the Summoners offensive capabilities, sadly. Not against the idea, but think it's actually separate to this subject.

[Detriitus]

Anakha, on 05 February 2015 - 08:47 PM, said:

Looks like Summoners and the rest of the mechs are getting their quirks on the next patch Russ tweeted today so hopefully the Summoner ones will be nice!

But isn't this patch just about the rest of the IS mechs?

[Mcgral18]

LordKnightFandragon, on 06 February 2015 - 02:32 AM, said:

But ultimately, it all means nothing, cuz I guess even PGI thinks clans are OP.....I heard somewhere Clan energy nerfs are in the works.

Nah, that was fearmongering.

It was a NGNG podcast, no one PGI. Also a false statement by the Forumite.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 06 February 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

Nah, that was fearmongering.

It was a NGNG podcast, no one PGI. Also a false statement by the Forumite.

We're still at the stage that "nerfing the Stormcrow, Timberwolf, and Dire Whale" is still not the same as "buffing the Badder, Nopeva, Suckoner, and Gargles".

Circular logic will happen. All we need now are ovals and ellipses.

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 06 February 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

We're still at the stage that "nerfing the Stormcrow, Timberwolf, and Dire Whale"...

We've been down that road before, and all it got us are several relatively dead mechs that no one played and still haven't really recovered their place once the rest of the IS mechs got their quirks.


Let's wait until clan quirks instead of the daily nerf calling for mechs that through simple original design ended up good in MWO.