1236 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

It's a frustrating issue for me.

I'm a Battletech guy, a lore guy, first. It's why I play this franchise over any other game (save MarioKart, lol).

So, I get where the difference lies, supposedly. Clan Mechs are produced for rapid battlefield deployment and weapon diversity. (They are generally less capable as specialists, in lore, but far more versatile because of this). They are part of a very spartan military mindset, and not owned by the pilot. (except in the absolute rarest of instances) That a significant modification to the internals or armor would not be allowed, and would screw logistics (an omni slot built around a stock standard skeleton might not interface properly with a bulkier, jury rigged endo steel one...if there was even a way for a clan warrior to get a pimp my mech custom chassis).


And that mix of not being owned, having no Mech customizing support structure, along with the technical and logistical hurdles, are why no clan omni (and tbh, in lore, no clan Battlemech) gets swappable endo, ferro, or engines. That customization actually jeopardizes the Clan's logistics, and is thus, wasteful.

But then again, outside of Solaris Customization shops, no IS mechs swapped Internal Structures in lore, either, as that is the bloody skeleton of the mech. The time and cost involved to engineer a custom one off, simply is not a worthwhile tradeoff. It would cost as much as a whole new mech.

So that's the lore side.

Perhaps, instead of looking at it "On Paper" as you are, consider it from a more abstract viewpoint. You said, parenthetically, "They are generally less capable as specialists, in lore, but far more versatile because of this"

Quirks make mech's specialists. Ignoring the buttons on the mechlab, getting the clan mechs reasonably balanced between themselves requires either ES/FF or heavy quirks on mechs without them. Heavy quirks make those Clan mechs specialists, and destroys their versatility. It un-Omnimechs the Omnimechs even more.

ES/FF allow Clans to feel they way they should in practice, rather than look the way they should on paper.

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BUT........

​Much as I wish it were otherwise, we are talking a FPS version of the game that has already had to take significantliberties with "lore" to work. And atm, as you say, the Clan Omnis not only are just a straight downgrade, that even ridiculous quirks would just bandaid over the real issue.....

But it makes balancing the clans near impossible, as Clan Omnis are pure "feast or famine". You have Upper tier, the Unholy Trinity, and you get the Lower Tier, everything else. There really is no true middle tier.

So currently, blance buffs just keep the Rich that much richer, and Nerfs just make the poor, poorer. And quirks are really just (for the most part) Mech Welfare, covering up the real issues. Limited "stock" quirks to make a mostly balanced tech level, like IS Battlemechs, make some sense as it gives flavor. But the instances where they have used it to try to cover for horrible hit boxes, hardpoints, etc, tend to give those very narrow, very cheezy builds like the 3 ER PPC Thunderbolts.

That ain't balance. That ain't chassis diversity. And in the world of clan omnis, where the gap between haves and have not sis even wider, and more stringently segregated, it will be even worse.

There are some IS quirked mechs that feel decidedly cheesy, but honestly, is a 3 ERPPC Thunderbolt (lore based equipment aside) particularly more "cheesy" than a HBK4G firing it's AC20 at that obscene RoF? (not saying either is bad, just conversationally here)

The reality is that many of these mechs they simply cannot fix the hitboxes. People here on the forums like to say "Well, just fix the hitboxes!" as if that can somehow change how the mech's geometry, which is based on artwork made in a game system where appearance was irrelevant. There are a lot of chassis that are bad because of how they look, and that's not really fixable now. Likewise with hardpoints in a good many cases; it just is what it is.

Not to say that the quirk situation in many cases can't be improved. it absolutely is Mech Welfare, though... But I don't have a better solution.

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Omni customization, in the end, their balancer, is their swappable pods. Endo and Ferro really have no impact on that. There locked engines, and locked "stock" articles already still keep them far more balanced than a couple extra tons.

The extra tons affect balance overall, though, enormously so. The problem is the locked Endo/Ferro aren't applied for balance - Because for Clans, Endosteel in particular is strictly advantageous. You'd virtually never NOT want it. But it's not only given to the weaker chassis, or else Timberwolves wouldn't have it and Nova's would. It's basically arbitrarily spread about, and it makes the rich richer and the poor poorer, as you said.

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And once all Omnis are on a relatively even playing field, actually balancing the CLANS, on not the individual chassis, will be a lot more doable.

Exactly. Until the Clan mechs are much closer together, there's no hope of balancing IS vs. Clans.


People often think, in these discussions, that I just want Clan's to be more powerful because "I'm a dirty clanner!" This isn't the case. As I said earlier, I'd be right for a heavy speed penalty on XL side torso destruction, as an example - a severe clan-wide nerf, one that would have substantial impact on CW. But before you can do that, you need to get the mechs closer together.

The same factor prevents fixing Clan Autocannons, which are flat out horrible. Sure, they're lighter.... but given IS always have Endosteel, and so many clan mechs don't, you've got a situation where a Summoner for example equipping a Clan Autocannon is basically paying IS tonnage for it (as it has far less tonnage available due to lack of ES), but getting a garbage autocannon for that tonnage.

Can't just buff the Clan Autocannons, though, without making the ES/FF clan mechs absurdly good with them. Any weapon/faction wide changes will cause severe collateral damage and balance issues until the Clan mechs are closer together.

[0bsidion]

SgtMagor, on 22 December 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

laser boats have a use but there boring, monotonous to use, I always liked a mixed loadout of missile, ballistic, energy weapons. there are some mechs that only carry 2 of the 3 but that seems way more fun and interesting, than an all energy mech. but the way Clan mechs are set up, I guess the best bang for the buck, are lasers...

I agree, at least with everything but maybe the last sentence, and only then because it's too generalized. Lasers are your best bang for the buck when you're severely limited on space.

Now, with the Summoner and it's limited pod space, that is certainly true, but it can't effectively boat the one thing that might help it shine a little more. If you look at the HBR, it is a very similar mech, and yet one that arguably performs better. I'd say it was a matter of hardpoints. The HBR has an excellent omnipod that not only allows you to mount an ECM, but a triple energy cluster of hardpoints on a high ST location. Set aside the ECM, if the Summoner could get ST omnipod with those energy hardpoints arranged like that, I think it would be a nice leap forward in performance.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 22 December 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

• You can keep limited arm yaw as long as you don't slot PPCs/Ballistics in both arms.
  
• I've argued, against you ironically, that the Summoner should be allowed to remove some JJs.

and yes, you can keep the YAW.... IF YOU RUN LASER VOMIT.

That is what I am arguing against. Every clan emch is already laser vomit, srm vomit. Can we actually have a mech that breaks the monotony?

I'm sick to god with the "huehuehue bring more lazors" to fix everything idea.

[KuroNyra]

Wintersdark, on 22 December 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

[/size]
People often think, in these discussions, that I just want Clan's to be more powerful because "I'm a dirty clanner!" This isn't the case. As I said earlier, I'd be right for a heavy speed penalty on XL side torso destruction, as an example - a severe clan-wide nerf, one that would have substantial impact on CW. But before you can do that, you need to get the mechs closer together.

Yeah, all guys using the Clans emblems are biased toward the Clans Mech... But in that case, all guy using Lonewolf, Merc and House emblem are biased toward IS Mech.

Before thinking about IS vs Clan balance, we need to bring them at the same level, not a single one must be "useless". Heck, The IS Locust is now an effective mech on the battlefield.


What we need is to at least make all Clans mech reach the tier 2-3, give them at least some specialities. We won't be able to make all of them the Jack-of-all trade like the TimberWolf or even Dire Wolf.

The Awesome can now boat PPC like it is supposed to do and use them efficiently thanks to the quircks. Basicly, it's a cool running mech. Why can't the Summoer have a heat reduction or something making him cool running? This way it would already be much more easy to use, few weapons but also no need to be extremely careful with the heat.


But of course you will have the endless argue of the trolls "naaaah clans are OP! Neeeeeerrffff! it's EZ mode!"

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 22 December 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

[/size]

There are some IS quirked mechs that feel decidedly cheesy, but honestly, is a 3 ERPPC Thunderbolt (lore based equipment aside) particularly more "cheesy" than a HBK4G firing it's AC20 at that obscene RoF? (not saying either is bad, just conversationally here)

Yes.

And two reasons:

It's actually a better PPC platform now than the Awesome. And last I checked, only one version (and it's 3050 upgrade maybe) even packed a SINGLE PPC. Perhaps if that quirk was tied to the arm that carried the ppc of that variant, it would be a little less cheezy? (And also of course not very popular, because MWO is all about how to minmax those high hardpoints. Period.)

And the HBK you listed...was meant to be a threat to Assault mechs. At point blank range.

Due to the nature of weapons convergence, and the doubled armor, it never was. Now, the mech is able to actually do it's job, and it still does not do it as well, since the TT version was essentially putting an ac40 into one spot, every shot. Yes, the cooldown is shorter, but you are still delivering 2 very much separated packets of damage.

From a mech moving at Assault Mech speeds, with Medium Mech armor.

Not remotely comparable.

dama9e, on 22 December 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Out of all the Clan mechs the Summoner is my best. 2 ER PPC/ 2 machine guns/ 2 Medium lasers, always high damage with it. (500-1000+)

congratulations on being the outlier.

I do real good with Vindicators, too. Your point?

1453 R, on 22 December 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

If - I say IF - at any point the player base manages to push through unlocking Endo/Ferro options for Clan 'Mechs, there's only one way it will be acceptable. Neither upgrade is dynamic. Assign Endo or Ferro? the upgrade goes to the "Structure Upgrade 1" slots and takes up fixed and specified critical slots in the 'Mech. Assign both Endo and Ferro? Then you fill up both "Structure Upgrade 1" slots and "structure Upgrade 2" slots, with either set of slots to be determined by PGI if necessary but with both aimed to do the same thing. Clans distribute their Endo/FF equally throughout the 'Mech and typically do so taking up 'valuable' crits such as the CT, head, and legs.

Piranha does the same with self-assigned Endo/FF upgrades, and uses them to selectively bother people and maintain the spirit of the fixed base chassis without inflicting crippling penalties on 'Mechs that weren't gifted by the tabletop gods with the top choice of MWO upgrades. IS structure upgrades have the advantage of being dynamic and thus allowing for shield-side combat or symmetric combat as the pilot/chassis prefer, while Clan structure upgrades have the advantage of not eating every single crit slot the g'damned 'Mech has. If, and I say IF, you really, truly canot live without breaking the hardlocked base chassis rules, that right up there is your only conceivable shot of not opening up a tremendous fiery Shatnerstorm of hatred and recrimination that will last throughout the ages.

well, as a matter of point, the Clan mechs do not have "equally spread" Endo and Ferro.

But I have no issue with the thought of preselected and locked crits being part of it.

[Bishop Steiner]

0bsidion, on 22 December 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

I agree, at least with everything but maybe the last sentence, and only then because it's too generalized. Lasers are your best bang for the buck when you're severely limited on space.

Now, with the Summoner and it's limited pod space, that is certainly true, but it can't effectively boat the one thing that might help it shine a little more. If you look at the HBR, it is a very similar mech, and yet one that arguably performs better. I'd say it was a matter of hardpoints. The HBR has an excellent omnipod that not only allows you to mount an ECM, but a triple energy cluster of hardpoints on a high ST location. Set aside the ECM, if the Summoner could get ST omnipod with those energy hardpoints arranged like that, I think it would be a nice leap forward in performance.

it would help, but the stock 14 DHS on Summoner labor under 4 Clan Medium lasers with any backup weapons. I honestly would like to see the mech able to use the builds it was designed to run, but that MWO doubled armor have all but negated (which, for example is what the HBK-4G quirk to the ac20 effectively did...let it actually fulfill it's TT role, finally)

[Sjorpha]

I think it would make sense to introduce jumpjet quirks that make jumpjets significantly more potent for mechs that are built around JJs in lore. So not just the summoner but also the highlander etc.

I think if the Summoner is to be buffed my preference would be making it more agile and jumpy.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 22 December 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

[/size]


The reality is that many of these mechs they simply cannot fix the hitboxes. People here on the forums like to say "Well, just fix the hitboxes!" as if that can somehow change how the mech's geometry, which is based on artwork made in a game system where appearance was irrelevant. There are a lot of chassis that are bad because of how they look, and that's not really fixable now. Likewise with hardpoints in a good many cases; it just is what it is.

Not to say that the quirk situation in many cases can't be improved. it absolutely is Mech Welfare, though... But I don't have a better solution.

The extra tons affect balance overall, though, enormously so. The problem is the locked Endo/Ferro aren't applied for balance - Because for Clans, Endosteel in particular is strictly advantageous. You'd virtually never NOT want it. But it's not only given to the weaker chassis, or else Timberwolves wouldn't have it and Nova's would. It's basically arbitrarily spread about, and it makes the rich richer and the poor poorer, as you said.

Yes, it's mech welfare, and like welfare and such systems are supposed (but of course, never are) to be, it needs to be implemented to assist and supplement a design not capable of getting by on it's own., not define the design.

It's true you can't do a lot to fix hardpoints, but quirks can be geared to do a lot of different things. The 9S could be quirked, without making it the single build, broken monster it is. You can't fix the hitboxes, anymore than you can make a person in a wheelchair walk. But you can find gainful employment the person in the wheelchair can do, and supplement him where he actually needs the help (transportation, etc), instead of just handing him a welfare check.

There arbitrary quirks that simply encourage minmax boating are not a long term solution to game balance and chassis diversity.

As for the tonnage affecting balance....yes and no.

In almost all cases (a single build of the DW to the contrary), the mechs that benefit are already lower tier anyhow. The rich don't get any richer, but the poor do get less poor.....and with the flattening of the curve, and such, we might actually be able to really work on balancing the Clans, with the quirking reserved more to help with what can't be fixed by tonnage, like armor buff to the arms of Novas, etc.

Fix what can be fixed to put everyone on as close to level a playing field as possible, then rely on quirks to help fix the discrepancies, after.

[1453 R]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

well, as a matter of point, the Clan mechs do not have "equally spread" Endo and Ferro.

But I have no issue with the thought of preselected and locked crits being part of it.

Quit being **** you know what I meant

Clan 'Mechs, as a rule, don't have ALL their Endo/FF on the left arm/ST, as so often happens with IS dynamic-structure 'Mechs workin' dat shield side. They tend to spread their structure slots symmetrically around the 'Mech, taking a little bite out of everywhere, and not-so-coincidentally preventing certain large-arsed weapons from slotting into certain hardpoints. I just figure that if people are going to really push for the whole "UNLOCK ALL THE THINGZ!" mentality, then non-dynamic structural upgrades are about the only way to retain any of the original Omnitechnology flavor and also induce some kind of balancing drawback to Clan structural upgrades to compensate for being HALF THE SIZE of IS structural upgrades.

A Clan 'Mech gets Endo and FF both for the IS' investment of Endo alone. Let the IS advantage be putting that Endo where they want it while the Clans have to have it where God and Russ intended.

And don't even start talking about engines. Liek no rly. You want to fiddle with structure upgrades to close the canyon between Clan apex machines and...well, Summoners...all right.Talk about it, fiddle with it, do some brain experimentation. But I guarantee you folks that unlocking Clan everything will end nowhere good. Want to see what a Timber Wolf can do with a 325XL, dynamic structure slots and no Ferro to clog up space on the frame? I'm a Clan pilot, and I have no interest whatsoever in seeing what that horrible abomination would do.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 22 December 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Quit being **** you know what I meant

Clan 'Mechs, as a rule, don't have ALL their Endo/FF on the left arm/ST, as so often happens with IS dynamic-structure 'Mechs workin' dat shield side. They tend to spread their structure slots symmetrically around the 'Mech, taking a little bite out of everywhere, and not-so-coincidentally preventing certain large-arsed weapons from slotting into certain hardpoints. I just figure that if people are going to really push for the whole "UNLOCK ALL THE THINGZ!" mentality, then non-dynamic structural upgrades are about the only way to retain any of the original Omnitechnology flavor and also induce some kind of balancing drawback to Clan structural upgrades to compensate for being HALF THE SIZE of IS structural upgrades.

A Clan 'Mech gets Endo and FF both for the IS' investment of Endo alone. Let the IS advantage be putting that Endo where they want it while the Clans have to have it where God and Russ intended.

And don't even start talking about engines. Liek no rly. You want to fiddle with structure upgrades to close the canyon between Clan apex machines and...well, Summoners...all right.Talk about it, fiddle with it, do some brain experimentation. But I guarantee you folks that unlocking Clan everything will end nowhere good. Want to see what a Timber Wolf can do with a 325XL, dynamic structure slots and no Ferro to clog up space on the frame? I'm a Clan pilot, and I have no interest whatsoever in seeing what that horrible abomination would do.

Heck I don't even really want to unlock Endo/Ferro, but after 6 months with the clans, and seeing the class disparity, have come to accept it as largely needed. Because with the haves, have nots, it's just not possible to truly balance the Clans.

We'll always have some disparities (some later clan omnis use standard engines, for instance. And hitboxes and hardpoint placement is what it is). Use quirks to buff those weaknesses as needed. But one won't truly see those weaknesses, in the "big picture" without basic chassis disparity closing a lot) A standard Engine clan assault mech should be massively tankier, compared to say the DW, with it's massive firepower. Perhaps slow clan lights with ECM and BAP should get range enhancements for those and their sensors.

But I really don't want to see JJs unlocked (though admit, it's for lore reasons, too). When I see JJ free Victors and Highlanders I vomit in my mouth a little.

But Engines should not even be in the discussion. Locked and done.

[F4T 4L]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Heck I don't even really want to unlock Endo/Ferro, but after 6 months with the clans, and seeing the class disparity, have come to accept it as largely needed. Because with the haves, have nots, it's just not possible to truly balance the Clans.

Maybe the answer is to strip endo from tbr and scr, to level the clan playing field somewhat, prior to the clan quirk pass?

[Wintersdark]

1453 R, on 22 December 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Quit being **** you know what I meant

Clan 'Mechs, as a rule, don't have ALL their Endo/FF on the left arm/ST, as so often happens with IS dynamic-structure 'Mechs workin' dat shield side. They tend to spread their structure slots symmetrically around the 'Mech, taking a little bite out of everywhere, and not-so-coincidentally preventing certain large-arsed weapons from slotting into certain hardpoints. I just figure that if people are going to really push for the whole "UNLOCK ALL THE THINGZ!" mentality, then non-dynamic structural upgrades are about the only way to retain any of the original Omnitechnology flavor and also induce some kind of balancing drawback to Clan structural upgrades to compensate for being HALF THE SIZE of IS structural upgrades.

A Clan 'Mech gets Endo and FF both for the IS' investment of Endo alone. Let the IS advantage be putting that Endo where they want it while the Clans have to have it where God and Russ intended.

I absolutely agree with this. I have zero objection whatsoever to the slots ES/FF take being fixed. None at all.

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And don't even start talking about engines. Liek no rly. You want to fiddle with structure upgrades to close the canyon between Clan apex machines and...well, Summoners...all right.Talk about it, fiddle with it, do some brain experimentation. But I guarantee you folks that unlocking Clan everything will end nowhere good. Want to see what a Timber Wolf can do with a 325XL, dynamic structure slots and no Ferro to clog up space on the frame? I'm a Clan pilot, and I have no interest whatsoever in seeing what that horrible abomination would do.

The only people who've mentioned engines have done so in a "slippery slope" sort of argument ("Don't unlock ES/FF because then Engines will be next!") which is a ridiculous argument at best.

Clan mechs having locked engines is an important part of what makes them different. Not like ES/FF, which ultimately is only a matter of how many free tons you have, Clan mechs having fixed engines means a Timberwolf always handles like a Timberwolf, a Nova like a Nova. You see one, you know how fast it can move, how fast it can twist.

The argument to unlocking ES/FF is entirely to balance Clan mechs internally vs. other Clan mechs. A larger engine isn't always good or bad, after all; the Timberwolf "wastes" tonnage with a larger engine, but gains speed and maneuverability. However, in almost no instance is the presence of ES a disadvantage. Sure, even with fixed slots, it can prevent certain loadouts, but only rarely is that an issue.

I can honestly say I've never been particularly sad that one of my Clan mechs had ES/FF, even if it did stop me from equipping something due to size (I can't think of an instance that's been a handicap off-hand; it basically only prevents loading LBX-20's and rarely UAC20's in some spots, but they suck anyways.

Anyways, this isn't an "unlock all the things!" push. It's merely a means to balance the currently GROSSLY unbalanced Clan mechs internally, a step that is inarguably required to balance IS vs. Clans overall.

[1453 R]

I know, man. The notion of unlocking structural upgrades on OmniMechs irritates me greatly, but damned if I can see a better way out of the trap myself right now. The Gargoyle is practically useless no matter what I try on it, the Nova is...just...what a mess (and I say this as a long-standing fan of the machine who pilots Stormcrows anyways and sheds a little tear for my poor Novas), and of course the Summoner doesn't have the hardpoints for small-bore spam or the tonnage for big-bore hitting.

Meanwhile, Timber Wolves are busy touching Inner Sphere pilots in all the bad places and making people cry for nerfs across the entirety of the tech base, when so many Clan machines already struggle to keep up as it is. Something needs to bend somewhere, and I don't really want to see a Clan Quirkening. It works for IS machines and the IS tech base, but gad blam it the awesome thing with the Clans is being able to put whatever guns you bloody well want on your OmniMechs. I have fun mauling things that expect me to fight from six hundred meters with my CLBX/20 and C-ERSL 'Mechs, and I don't want to give that up. If we have to bend the construction rules to avoid being build-locked the way the Spheroids are...well, so be it, I suppose. Just bend the right way, instead of the wrong way.

And yeah. I've never once run a jetless Victor, and I never will. Some things just should not be.

[Wintersdark]

F4T 4L, on 22 December 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

Maybe the answer is to strip endo from tbr and scr, to level the clan playing field somewhat, prior to the clan quirk pass?

I wouldn't object, if:

1) People STFU about lighter Clan equipment. If no clan mechs had ES/FF, then you may as well make their AC's PPFLD as well, because they'd eat comparatively equal tonnage.

2) Nobody cared about stock loadouts actually working.

But that's not going to happen, because maintaining stock loadouts is important to many people (for perfectly valid reasons).

Basically, it's not possible to remove ES/FF from mechs currently having it.

[F4T 4L]

Wintersdark, on 22 December 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

I wouldn't object, if:

1) People STFU about lighter Clan equipment. If no clan mechs had ES/FF, then you may as well make their AC's PPFLD as well, because they'd eat comparatively equal tonnage.

2) Nobody cared about stock loadouts actually working.

But that's not going to happen, because maintaining stock loadouts is important to many people (for perfectly valid reasons).

Basically, it's not possible to remove ES/FF from mechs currently having it.

I'm really just pointing out that only 2 clan mechs are OP. Nerfing them with quirks or whatever, then rebalancing IS is just as valid as positively quirking the whole IS, then doing the same to all clanners but two.

It won't happen of course.. the whine would be audible in space

Also, leave my dwf's alone!

Edited by F4T 4L, 22 December 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[0bsidion]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

it would help, but the stock 14 DHS on Summoner labor under 4 Clan Medium lasers with any backup weapons. I honestly would like to see the mech able to use the builds it was designed to run, but that MWO doubled armor have all but negated (which, for example is what the HBK-4G quirk to the ac20 effectively did...let it actually fulfill it's TT role, finally)

True, it wouldn't completely fix it, and it would still require some heat management on some maps. I've give a lot of thought to what it might take to get this mech out of the mire, and that omnipod is the least dramatic. Combine it with quirks and the Summoner might start to seem more viable. Maybe a -25% Heat from Energy quirk. And/or a -25% laser burn time quirk.

[Bishop Steiner]

F4T 4L, on 22 December 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:

Maybe the answer is to strip endo from tbr and scr, to level the clan playing field somewhat, prior to the clan quirk pass?

Yes. Because breaking the stock builds that are the basis of the game, makes a lot more sense. Bad troll 4L, try harder!

[1453 R]

I don't even want Clan autocannons to fire PPFLD shots. I just want a C-UAC/20 burst to not take a week and a half to fire.

Things I've done while waiting for the C-UAC/20 to finish spitting AC/4 shots:

-finish tracking down where all my g'damned IS 300XLs went to this time
-posted repeatedly on the forums
-made a sandwich
-eaten a sandwich
-made a sandwich AND eaten it as well
-used the bathroom
-renovated the bathroom
-finally traveled to Japan to see my other homeland. #unrepentantotaku.
-run for office (like a boss!)
-composed a rock cover for Wagner's Ring Cycle.
-engineered a working fusion reactor for my real-life Stormcrow
-met a girl, got married, had kids, sent them to college, and retired.

[F4T 4L]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Yes. Because breaking the stock builds that are the basis of the game, makes a lot more sense. Bad troll 4L, try harder!

No I wasn't trolling, just a little joke. But see my clarification.

[Wintersdark]

0bsidion, on 22 December 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

True, it wouldn't completely fix it, and it would still require some heat management on some maps. I've give a lot of thought to what it might take to get this mech out of the mire, and that omnipod is the least dramatic. Combine it with quirks and the Summoner might start to seem more viable. Maybe a -25% Heat from Energy quirk. And/or a -25% laser burn time quirk.

Ewww.

See, this is why I don't like quirks for Clan mechs overall - some, yes, but not major IS style quirking.

This suggestion you make? Sure, it'd make the Summoner much better.

It would also make it a laser vomit machine as well. Hurray. More laser vomit. And if you DON'T run laser vomit, it would remain crappy. Blah.

Edited by Wintersdark, 22 December 2014 - 10:35 AM.