1236 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

I've considered Feature Suggestions like a black hole.

Since I don't visit, it didn't happen.

[Bishop Steiner]

YueFei, on 11 January 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

Yes, I agree that the lack of option for Endo/Ferro on some Clan machines is what holds them back.

That, and hard-wired Jump Jets. Being able to squeeze out even 1 extra ton can make a big difference. It boggles my mind that Inner Sphere mechs can put Jump Jets anywhere except arms and head, but the jump jets in Omnis are just stuck there forever.

Then again, I disagreed with PGI's philosophy of trying to make Clans and Inner Sphere balanced. I would not have minded having Clans retain technological superiority, and I'm a 100% Inner Sphere player. I would've preferred balance to come from other directions, such as having Clans bid amongst themselves (as in the lore), and fight each other for the right to attack the Inner Sphere worlds. That, and logistics, with the Inner Sphere outnumbering the Clans both per-match and in the overall strategic picture. But, given that the game revolves around each player owning their own stable of mechs, that ship has sailed long ago.

I used to play in a MW4 league where a central database kept track of all the mechs each faction had, along with the factories on each planet producing mechs at a certain rate. Once a mech was destroyed in a match, it was gone, until a new mech was built to replace it. Transporting mechs around by drop ship took time, so you could concentrate more mechs against certain planets at the cost of reducing your garrisons elsewhere.

Under that kind of system, each faction has certain economic production capability, and a limited number of mechs. Inner Sphere would outnumber the Clans significantly like that.

But like I said, since MWO has every player owning a stable of mechs that never need to be repaired or replaced.... it's not possible for them to balance the Community Warfare along those lines.



I'd like to see buffs for its LRM15 cooldown and projectile speed as well. Allow it to synergize better with the reduced cooldowns on the LB10-X and ERPPC. That way, you can squeeze out two salvos of LB10-X and ERPPC, and in the same time frame squeeze out two salvos for the LRM15. Missile lock time reduction would also be nice.



Looks good to me, and prevents stacking bonuses in an unforeseen way that leads to problems.

I really feel like the Summoner's style should be to rocket around the map reaching ridiculous places to get firing positions on the enemy, and then dumping firepower onto them from above like there's no tomorrow, before quickly reaching its heat cap and then rocketing away to relocate and cool off and then rinse and repeat. Players should get used to seeing Summoners perched above them throwing thunder and lightning down upon them.

Cooldown and heat buffs will go a long way toward that, but they really also need to buff jump jets.

thought about the missiles, but felt I was at the edge of over quirking it, and that even though each weapon type was only a single specimen, usually you can do a lot more with a single ballistic or energy than Missiles. So they kind of just lost out due to that. But I would not complain if they were quirked, unless it was at the cost of reducing the effectiveness of the other 2 weapon groups. I figured for the devout missileers, they can use the Bravo chassis.

InspectorG, on 11 January 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

Not intending to steal Bishop's thread but i posted this in the Feature Suggestion area.

http://mwomercs.com/...-our-summoners/

Trying to get more visibility to PGI so they can do some of our ideas.

Feel free to post or copy stuff you post here over there so it gets seen?????

I was going to have this moved there maybe later, after it slowed down some. Shame they don't like repeat posts, would love to just copy it over.

[InspectorG]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 January 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

thought about the missiles, but felt I was at the edge of over quirking it, and that even though each weapon type was only a single specimen, usually you can do a lot more with a single ballistic or energy than Missiles. So they kind of just lost out due to that. But I would not complain if they were quirked, unless it was at the cost of reducing the effectiveness of the other 2 weapon groups. I figured for the devout missileers, they can use the Bravo chassis.


I was going to have this moved there maybe later, after it slowed down some. Shame they don't like repeat posts, would love to just copy it over.

What if we were to just copy&paste the 'highlights' of ideas?

[Bulletsponge0]

haven't run my Summoner's in a while..but this thread got me to hop back in them...

forgot how much fun they are!!! (and deadly hehe)

[ArchSight]

Here's a load out that can DPS and unload 30 damage quickly from long ranges before going back into cover. Fire the two C-LBX2's twice or more. The spread is small enough to hit one torso and if not can repeat fire quickly to make up for it. The C-LBX2's will not allow cooling until they're stopped from firing. C-LBX2's chain fire is slower than it's rate of fire when quirked.

Use this load out with C-LBX2 10% cool down module(+10% cool down reduction from Quirked Prime Ballistic arm) and C-ER Large Laser Range Module.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ef5fc6aa75bd1a

I'm interested in seeing how well it works out for you all?

Edited by ArchSight, 11 January 2015 - 04:42 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

ArchSight, on 11 January 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

Here's a load out that can DPS and unload 30 damage quickly from long ranges before going back into cover. Fire the two C-LBX2's twice or more. The spread is small enough to hit one torso and if not can repeat fire quickly to make up for it. The C-LBX2's will not allow cooling until they're stopped from firing. C-LBX2's chain fire is slower than it's rate of fire when quirked.

Use this load out with C-LBX2 10% cool down module(+10% cool down reduction from Quirked Prime Ballistic arm) and C-ER Large Laser Range Module.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ef5fc6aa75bd1a

I'm interested in seeing how well it works out for you all?

honestly, doesn't work for me, but that's likely just playstyle. I generally don't do well with the 2 PPC build either, for similar reasons.

[InspectorG]

The Boz, on 21 December 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

1. "Use at least one, often both." No sane IS mech build in MWO currently uses standard structure; Endo-Steel is a straight upgrade. Since ES is a straight upgrade at 14 slots, it's logical to assume that ES+FF is a straight upgrade at 7+7 slots, too.

IS heavies and Assaults may opt to not use Endo. Dual large weapons + ammo can eat space quickly.
Energyboats trying to get as many DHS as possible will likely lose out to space requirements.

Cant say its 'sane' but a Banshee S with NO UPGRADES can use 2LL, rest ML and 41 SHS to a decent degree.
It works well for being 'inferior' and is very cheap. Fantastic Tuesday has the video for it.

I dont know of any IS mech that uses Ferro unless its a light trying to squeeze in an extra half ton ammo.

[1453 R]

Dragons often run Endo and Ferro both, for the same reason lights do - those suckers need every last spare pound they can muster up. As well, I've seen plenty of STD engine builds across medium and heavy brackets that take Endo and Ferro both because they have six extra slots over an XL build and can find room for Endo and Ferro both to recoup a little bit of the weight they lost with a STD engine. It happens more often than you might think, though at the investment of over half the 'Mech's available critslots by my count, it's not a common thing, no.

[Bishop Steiner]

I just want to be able to be semi effective running my Summoners in the flavor they were meant to be run, instead of having to subscribe to the stupidly boring "meta" builds, like laser vomit or PPC/Gauss

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 January 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

I just want to be able to be semi effective running my Summoners in the flavor they were meant to be run, instead of having to subscribe to the stupidly boring "meta" builds, like laser vomit or PPC/Gauss

So long as we are able to fire 60pt lolphas, mechs like the Summoner, or Cicada, or Vindi will never amount to much more then a target. When there is finally a limit to how much we can fire and accuracy, heat management, movement and other battlefield tactics play a larger part in a game, over just hi.....here, hold this for me....80pt alpha.....we will see the SUmmoner even in it's stock form, be a worthy opponent. Until then, its Laser Vomit to maximize laser damage in the shortest time and GR/PPC stacking for maximum FLD.

When the CERPPC sees itself as a 15/15, the WHK-P and Summoner P will come into their own as the mechs they are designed to be.

Even the Gargoyle I think would improve vastly from a massive change to how much damage we can deal all at once. When perhaps those 2 LBX5s are able to out DPS a hotter laser build and close in with those SRM6s to slam thedoor in a laser vomiter's face.........

The Atlas will improve and become the beast of the battlefield, when you can only truly realistically throw 20dmg at it and not 60......
Until then, poor mechs who cant mount 500 guns.....you will forever be relegated to the junk pile.

[Bishop Steiner]

LordKnightFandragon, on 15 January 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

So long as we are able to fire 60pt lolphas, mechs like the Summoner, or Cicada, or Vindi will never amount to much more then a target. When there is finally a limit to how much we can fire and accuracy, heat management, movement and other battlefield tactics play a larger part in a game, over just hi.....here, hold this for me....80pt alpha.....we will see the SUmmoner even in it's stock form, be a worthy opponent. Until then, its Laser Vomit to maximize laser damage in the shortest time and GR/PPC stacking for maximum FLD.

When the CERPPC sees itself as a 15/15, the WHK-P and Summoner P will come into their own as the mechs they are designed to be.

Even the Gargoyle I think would improve vastly from a massive change to how much damage we can deal all at once. When perhaps those 2 LBX5s are able to out DPS a hotter laser build and close in with those SRM6s to slam thedoor in a laser vomiter's face.........

The Atlas will improve and become the beast of the battlefield, when you can only truly realistically throw 20dmg at it and not 60......
Until then, poor mechs who cant mount 500 guns.....you will forever be relegated to the junk pile.

My Vindi and Summoners both beg to differ. They regularly make far more people into targets than they become.

That said, they are far from ideal, but the 60 pt alpha is only one small part of the issue.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 January 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

My Vindi and Summoners both beg to differ. They regularly make far more people into targets than they become.

That said, they are far from ideal, but the 60 pt alpha is only one small part of the issue.

Yeah, it prolly starts with the horrid grind, so people feel the need to get in games and deal as much damage as quickly as possible to gain as much $$ per hour as they can. Next, the heat scale allows us to support these massive alphas. THen, due to the massive alphas, everyone deathballs, which just amplifies all PPFLD. and im sure im missing alot.

[Scout Derek]

I'd like to have that unused omni pod mentioned for the Summoner's Left CT, 1E and 1M? That'd make the Summoner a Light Wub almost and then some... T-Bolts meet your look-a-like and almost Wubs as much as you >.>

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 January 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

I just want to be able to be semi effective running my Summoners in the flavor they were meant to be run, instead of having to subscribe to the stupidly boring "meta" builds, like laser vomit or PPC/Gauss

Well, given the omnipod rules... particularly the part with the locked engine, it will probably never reach that potential.

If it even remotely used battlemech construction rules, it would have a shot... except the Summoner-Prime (fixing that would probably require more weapon options than currently available).

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 15 January 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Well, given the omnipod rules... particularly the part with the locked engine, it will probably never reach that potential.

If it even remotely used battlemech construction rules, it would have a shot... except the Summoner-Prime (fixing that would probably require more weapon options than currently available).

really? Because with just the D arms available, I can toss on 3 ERPPC which would be a bit hotter (17 dhs instead of 18) and trades off the locations for much better speed and JJs, if they got the PPC quirks for a prime chassis.

So either they will really need to minimize the effectiveness of individual quirks to minimize minmax stacking, or they will need to tie them to pods to keep stupid levels of abuse from happening.

Scout Derek, on 15 January 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

I'd like to have that unused omni pod mentioned for the Summoner's Left CT, 1E and 1M? That'd make the Summoner a Light Wub almost and then some... T-Bolts meet your look-a-like and almost Wubs as much as you >.>

I'm not against that option, but I really really really want to break the cycle of everything clan having to run pew pew or wub wub. It's something that needs to be added, but it doesn't actually FIX any of the inherent issues.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 January 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

really? Because with just the D arms available, I can toss on 3 ERPPC which would be a bit hotter (17 dhs instead of 18) and trades off the locations for much better speed and JJs, if they got the PPC quirks for a prime chassis.

So either they will really need to minimize the effectiveness of individual quirks to minimize minmax stacking, or they will need to tie them to pods to keep stupid levels of abuse from happening.

What? 9s lvls of abuse, or since its IS that is actually deemed as balanced by IS drivers?

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 January 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

really? Because with just the D arms available, I can toss on 3 ERPPC which would be a bit hotter (17 dhs instead of 18) and trades off the locations for much better speed and JJs, if they got the PPC quirks for a prime chassis.

So either they will really need to minimize the effectiveness of individual quirks to minimize minmax stacking, or they will need to tie them to pods to keep stupid levels of abuse from happening.

My idea of having moderate quirks for all pods and super quirks reserved only for pure pod sets fixes this. If somebody wants the maximum LIGHTNING BOLTS quirks for their ERPPCs, they gotta run the full Prime set...so they only get 1 energy hardpoint. If they wanna use the D left arm, then they only get modest quirks.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 15 January 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

My idea of having moderate quirks for all pods and super quirks reserved only for pure pod sets fixes this. If somebody wants the maximum LIGHTNING BOLTS quirks for their ERPPCs, they gotta run the full Prime set...so they only get 1 energy hardpoint. If they wanna use the D left arm, then they only get modest quirks.

think it would be simpler (imo) just to tier the quirks chassis/pod. Not for programming, which I think it's easy to go either way, but just for players building mechs.

Either would likely work, but it definitely needs a tiered system. Both ideas would minimize abuse (Yes a person could swap the erppc pod bonus onto a Summoner D, but he would only get it for that arm, and stacked with whatever base Energy Quirk the chassis had)


And the IS mechs need to follow suit.

[LordKnightFandragon]

FupDup, on 15 January 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

My idea of having moderate quirks for all pods and super quirks reserved only for pure pod sets fixes this. If somebody wants the maximum LIGHTNING BOLTS quirks for their ERPPCs, they gotta run the full Prime set...so they only get 1 energy hardpoint. If they wanna use the D left arm, then they only get modest quirks.

Yes please, super quirks for an 8/8 WHK P. its why I have finally elited it and havent taken it outof it's 8/8 prime config, or even took the guns off it. I am hoping that CERPPC become....fearsome? Right now, I am more scared of my mech then the enemy is.....

They are pure bliss to fire though, I love the sound, and if my PC was up to par, playing with them on high particles is better then secks.....

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 15 January 2015 - 01:59 PM.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 January 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

really? Because with just the D arms available, I can toss on 3 ERPPC which would be a bit hotter (17 dhs instead of 18) and trades off the locations for much better speed and JJs, if they got the PPC quirks for a prime chassis.

So either they will really need to minimize the effectiveness of individual quirks to minimize minmax stacking, or they will need to tie them to pods to keep stupid levels of abuse from happening.

I'm assuming you can't move omnipods around if it were treated as a battlemech. The current real problem with the Summoner has always been put together with a large engine and doesn't have the tonnage for other combinations (either multiple large energy or multiple ballistic weapons that don't involve MGs). It's technically "easier" to do in a Cataphract which used to be the "gold standard" of reference of energy+ballistic for the IS (now technically replaced somewhat by the Thunderbolt).