1236 replies to this topic

[BattleGnome]

I have a few simple fixes for the plight of the Summoner which was somewhat mentioned in this topic, but I would like to expand on it further.

First off, buff clan ballistics. Most of the default Summoner variants relied heavily on large ballistic weapons and were deadly in previous incarnations of Mechwarrior. The only clan ballistic weapon that wouldn't need buffing would be the Gauss really.

Buff specifically the UAC-10 and especially the UAC-20 as there is no reason to field them over a Gauss or LPL+DHSs. They not only shoot too many bullets per burst, but also the UAC-20's burst rate of fire is ridiculously slow. Either remove one (or two?) of the bullets per burst and/or increase the burst rate of fire so that fire control is easier yet still necessary. This has the added bonus of making Clan meta-builds more diverse since I'm sure everyone is tired of seeing laser vomit, laser vomit+Gauss (if Assaults), and the occasional niche build (Dakka Wolf, Splat Dog).

But wouldn't that just mean there would be more Dakka Timberwolves and Stormcrows? Enter the second suggestion: Give the Summoner variants noticably effective ballistic quirks. Ballistic quirks such as faster cooldown rates for UAC20s and Gauss- you know, just like the ridiculous IS mech quirks like on Grid Iron, or the once horrible, now okay Dragons.

But even with all these quirks, why bother get the Summoner over the other mechs aside from a little jump boost? My final suggestion could be harder to implement coding-wise, but I think would be worth it. Someone on this thread a while back mentioned that the Summoner's arms were fairly flexible and could be held upwards around corners or for peaking over hills. I suggest implementing this such that the player could control this in a limited fashion via the game's zoom mechanic. The more zoomed, the higher up the arms are positioned.

Another idea would be to adjust arm arms using the same button that opens/closes weapon doors or the King Crab's claws. It seems doable, and I think would be awesome as well.

So, two birds with a few suggestions: address laser vomit AND make the Summoner viable (and maybe even fun).

[Brody319]

"what plans do you have to help mechs like the summoner be more viable?"
Expected Russ Response: "We will release more ballistic arm omnipods and give it more ballistic cooldown"

[MechWarrior5152251]

Took the summoner out a few hours ago. 700 damage 3 kills on alpine. Nothing wrong with the Summoner its just not as OP as the Timberwolf. Probably easier to pilot because you can't stuff as many lasers on it. I was running 2 LPL and 1 Streak 6, corner peaking at 600m with the LPL took down 2 Direwhales no problem.

[Bishop Steiner]

MechWarrior5152251, on 19 February 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

Took the summoner out a few hours ago. 700 damage 3 kills on alpine. Nothing wrong with the Summoner its just not as OP as the Timberwolf. Probably easier to pilot because you can't stuff as many lasers on it. I was running 2 LPL and 1 Streak 6, corner peaking at 600m with the LPL took down 2 Direwhales no problem.

Yes, I got 700 dmg in a Locust...pre quirks....doesn't make it a good mech. Do that consistently over 100 matches and we may have a talking point.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 February 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Yes, I got 700 dmg in a Locust...pre quirks....doesn't make it a good mech. Do that consistently over 100 matches and we may have a talking point.

I need to make a set of canned responses to posts like the one above, so we don't need to explain why "I do fine in my *whatever* so it must be OK" is a terrible argument. One day.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sigh.

Just took it out for a spin, since on my main account the Elo yoyo decided it was "time to ROFLStomp Bishop" every match, lol.

Well, team still got ROLFstomped, lol. But even running pure stock, kicked out 524 damage with a kill and several assists. A great match? No. But acceptable, considering. So frustrating because the Mech is Soooooooo close. Yet about 3.5 tons away from being great.

[RedDevil]

Stock Prime?

[Bishop Steiner]

reddevil, on 19 February 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

Stock Prime?

yup

[Khobai]

Quote

Why the hell are JJs and AMS this massive advantage in CW, if that was the case you'd see more shadowhawks, summoners etc.

dont know. the whole reason mechs like the victor were tier 1 is because they had JJs in the first place.so penalizing them AGAIN for having jumpjets made no sense.

But thats the way pgi decided to do it for some reason.

[Tahribator]

I posted in the other thread too. Give it:

• Short term: Additional arm armor (NOT structure)
  
• Long term: Nipple lasers

and that'd solve most of the problems with it. Let it be able to boat at least 6 lasers (2 in torso) so that it still can be effective with its little pod space. Arm armor is needed because the arms tank a lot of damage due to their size. Not a good thing when most of your weapons are arm mounted.


So far the most consistently good build on the Summoner for me is a cheesy 4xSSRM6+SSRM4 build. Pop lights instantly and tear off the limbs of heavier opponents. SSRM LOS is no problem because you can just fire while JJ'ing. It's a sad build to use though. I feel dirty using it just like using an LRM boat. Easy kills and damage.

Edited by Tahribator, 20 February 2015 - 05:08 AM.

[Deathlike]

shad0w4life, on 19 February 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

Why the hell are JJs and AMS this massive advantage in CW, if that was the case you'd see more shadowhawks, summoners etc.

Kitfox is a tonnage filler for drop deck.

The Arctic Cheetah meta will end the reign of the IS Lights (or at least compete).

The idea of just carrying 2 CSSRM4s more competently than the Mist Lynx is just the beginning...

Edited by Deathlike, 20 February 2015 - 09:27 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tahribator, on 20 February 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

I posted in the other thread too. Give it:

• Short term: Additional arm armor (NOT structure)
  
• Long term: Nipple lasers

and that'd solve most of the problems with it. Let it be able to boat at least 6 lasers (2 in torso) so that it still can be effective with its little pod space. Arm armor is needed because the arms tank a lot of damage due to their size. Not a good thing when most of your weapons are arm mounted.




So far the most consistently good build on the Summoner for me is a cheesy 4xSSRM6+SSRM4 build. Pop lights instantly and tear off the limbs of heavier opponents. SSRM LOS is no problem because you can just fire while JJ'ing. It's a sad build to use though. I feel dirty using it just like using an LRM boat. Easy kills and damage.

I'd prefer structure, personally. Don't claim to know the mechanics, but with armor, once the armor is breached I always lose the weapon there, immediately. WIth structure, I usually keep them til the limb fall off.

And I'd rather have endo, so that you have the tonnage to build something useful beside laser/srmvomit

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 February 2015 - 09:33 AM.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 20 February 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

The Arctic Cheetah meta will end the reign of the IS Lights (or at least compete).

The idea of just carrying 2 CSSRM4s more competently than the Mist Lynx is just the beginning...

With 8 tons of pod space, I think lazors will be the best bet for the Arctic Cheater. I guess regular SRMs might be weight-efficient enough to work as well.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 20 February 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

With 8 tons of pod space, I think lazors will be the best bet for the Arctic Cheater. I guess regular SRMs might be weight-efficient enough to work as well.

better grouped, too. Does it have the hardpoints for 2x CSRM4, 2 tons ammo and 4 ERSlasers/SPL?

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 February 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

better grouped, too. Does it have the hardpoints for 2x CSRM4, 2 tons ammo and 4 ERSlasers/SPL?

Here is my full speculation for all wave 3 hardpoints:



The Arctic "Cheater" (so-called because of being so optimally constructed) can do that right out of the box on the Prime. It's kind of a sexy beast.

Edited by FupDup, 20 February 2015 - 09:36 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 20 February 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Here is my full speculation for all wave 3 hardpoints:



The Arctic "Cheater" (so-called because of being so optimally constructed) can do that right out of the box on the Prime. It's kind of a sexy beast.


EDIT: Oh crap, I misspelled "Arctic" on the picture above. Gotta change that now...

4x SPL, 2x CSRM4 probably would be my default.... ermalsers too hot, after all....or maybe toss on 1x ERML to have some medium range harassing ability. Then toss on 3 ER Small, and .5 tons more ammo...and a DHS

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 February 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Yes, I got 700 dmg in a Locust...pre quirks....doesn't make it a good mech. Do that consistently over 100 matches and we may have a talking point.

But the Locust is fun... the 1V is nuts with the ERLL quirk... Though it is hard to shoehorn one in...

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 20 February 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

But the Locust is fun... the 1V is nuts with the ERLL quirk... Though it is hard to shoehorn one in...

not really...jsut can't shoehorn much else with it

[Brody319]

They could give it some MASC.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 February 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

not really...jsut can't shoehorn much else with it

It's a Locust... not much room for anythining...including the pilot.

Still I am enjoying this LCT-1V, it has a lot of punch for it's size and is often ignored for the bigger things around