123 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

We should at least have war-games. Pick a world and fight over it. Pugging on the Clan border is robbing me of my will to play. There are some great pug games - sometimes you'll get a group of pugs who stick to the plan, push when the push is called and play as a group and it's amazing.

Mostly though you get people walking into walls, trying to snipe/countersnipe Clanners using ERLLs at 700m while they've got regular large lasers, refusing to push out, not shooting legs when defending, etc.

I miss you guys. We should work something out. Not actual taking worlds, just trading 1 world back and forth. Consider it training exercises while we wait for the Clanners to finish up FRR and get down into Party Town.

Then we can race to Strana Mechty

[Podex]

MischiefSC, on 30 December 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

Mostly though you get people walking into walls

I never got the memo. When did this become frowned upon?

...and all this time I thought I was cool

[Dauphni]

What I've seen during Kurita defense is a lot of people who are individually good players, but play CW as if they were PUGing. They may rack up high scores and think they're doing well, but they lose anyway because they're too focused on the mechs, not the objectives.

At least Marik and Davion players know how to play to win

[TripleEhBeef]

Uite Dauphni, on 30 December 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

What I've seen during Kurita defense is a lot of people who are individually good players, but play CW as if they were PUGing. They may rack up high scores and think they're doing well, but they lose anyway because they're too focused on the mechs, not the objectives.

At least Marik and Davion players know how to play to win

Yeah, I've been seeing a bit of that in my games at the Kurita front. On a push where we finished the 3 Omega gens, 4 of our team basically just stopped advancing and tried to get some kills. They could have damaged the gun enough for our next push to finish it, but instead we lost with about 20% health left on the gun.

Even the Kurita 5 man wanted to chill at the gates and poke for a bit, they made the call at the start. A lot of game time was lost and so was the initiative. Lost something like 9 mechs before the first push.

Edited by TripleEhBeef, 30 December 2014 - 06:49 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

TripleEhBeef, on 30 December 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Lost something like 9 mechs before the first push.

You mean you lost the match before the first push. 9 mechs before the first push is the equivalent to a forfeit. I'm honestly sorry you went through that.

[TripleEhBeef]

IraqiWalker, on 30 December 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

You mean you lost the match before the first push. 9 mechs before the first push is the equivalent to a forfeit. I'm honestly sorry you went through that.

Essentially. Considering that we took the gun down to 20%, that would have given us enough tonnage and time to make another push.

[AaronWolf]

Uite Dauphni, on 30 December 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

What I've seen during Kurita defense is a lot of people who are individually good players, but play CW as if they were PUGing. They may rack up high scores and think they're doing well, but they lose anyway because they're too focused on the mechs, not the objectives.

At least Marik and Davion players know how to play to win

TripleEhBeef, on 30 December 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Yeah, I've been seeing a bit of that in my games at the Kurita front. On a push where we finished the 3 Omega gens, 4 of our team basically just stopped advancing and tried to get some kills. They could have damaged the gun enough for our next push to finish it, but instead we lost with about 20% health left on the gun.

Even the Kurita 5 man wanted to chill at the gates and poke for a bit, they made the call at the start. A lot of game time was lost and so was the initiative. Lost something like 9 mechs before the first push.

I think its hard for some to get out of the whole "PUG"/"Arena" style of play, since that was all this game really had for the most part. Even Conquest is a poor excuse for a objective based game. So a lot of players I think are still getting used to the whole: "Go for the objectives" playstyle.

[StillRadioactive]

AaronWolf, on 31 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

I think its hard for some to get out of the whole "PUG"/"Arena" style of play, since that was all this game really had for the most part. Even Conquest is a poor excuse for a objective based game. So a lot of players I think are still getting used to the whole: "Go for the objectives" playstyle.

The problem is that the drop caller has to decide whether to win by attrition (killing the 'mechs), by objective (zerging the gens) or by sleight of hand (pretending to do one of the other two while sneaking a force in unnoticed).

The entire team has to work toward the goal that the drop caller has set out. Anyone who's trying to do either of the other two is a detriment to his/her team.

So if the DC calls attrition, you stand and fight. If the DC calls zerg, you get your legs blasted to **** running for the generator. If the DC calls split push you either make as much noise as possible in the heavy force, or you keep your ******* head down in the backstab force.
It all comes down to discipline. You stick with the call.

[Podex]

Attrition on attack is not a wise plan. All the defender needs to do is wait you out.

It really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, considering the status of the other non-cw maps. Most of the time they descend into death matches. Making cw pug friendly is going to do the same thing. Our best option? Wait it out. CW will lose its pug appeal in a few weeks after pugs realize that they need to either join a group or go back to the 3 other games with more maps than cw has.

Edited by Podex, 01 January 2015 - 08:11 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Podex, on 01 January 2015 - 03:28 AM, said:

Attrition on attack is not a wise plan. All the defender needs to do is wait you out.

It really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, considering the status of the other non-cw maps. Most of the time they descend into death matches. Making cw pug friendly is going to do the same thing. Our best option? Wait it out. CW will lose its pug appeal in a few weeks after pugs realize that they need to either join a group or go back to the 3 other games with more maps than cw has.

I've had a few great drops doing attrition on attack, even with pugs. The key is knowing the spots on each map where it works. Defenders often don't know how to deal with it, trotting in by 2s and 3s thinking they're going to leg people who are fleeing and instead get focused down.

Several Clan units do it very effectively; they stay at 700+m or so and poke with ERLLs at really, really stupid people who stand in the open getting poked or who shoot back with regular large lasers or the like. How about sniping with Gauss at 700m against 3 or 4 mechs with ERLLs, taking 4x the damage he's doing.

It works by good coordination and because a lot of people are bad.

[Joe Decker]

Have to agree - playing by attrition can absolutely work if the individual Skill of Blues is higher than that of Reds. There is plenty of Time for nice Sniper Games. For the Split Game you need an Enemy Commander who does not think of that. The Rush is the better Tactic for Teams whose Skill is lower than the Enemie's. I wouldn't blame any Commander doing a Zerg Rush in that Situation. Yet from HoL for Example i would expect something different.

[Khanesh Loral]

I would like to give props to TMC from Davion as well though. TTK is 3-0 against the same 12 man this morning on TsingHai, but DAMN you guys fight hard. Good drops let's keep this coming!

[StillRadioactive]

MischiefSC, on 01 January 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

I've had a few great drops doing attrition on attack, even with pugs. The key is knowing the spots on each map where it works. Defenders often don't know how to deal with it, trotting in by 2s and 3s thinking they're going to leg people who are fleeing and instead get focused down.

Several Clan units do it very effectively; they stay at 700+m or so and poke with ERLLs at really, really stupid people who stand in the open getting poked or who shoot back with regular large lasers or the like. How about sniping with Gauss at 700m against 3 or 4 mechs with ERLLs, taking 4x the damage he's doing.

It works by good coordination and because a lot of people are bad.

The key to an attrition win is you have to fight in a position where your presence is an existential threat to the defending team.

If the defense doesn't feel pressured, they can just wait and poke all day and WHOOPS! It's been a half an hour, GG fellas. Sorry 'bout your luck.

If you pick your combat area correctly, you'll be able to force them into charging at you because failure to do so will lose them the game. Then you feast on the chaos and they lose the game anyway.

[Molossian Dog]

The Dave is polite.

When did that happen?

I see I should be more active on the boards.

[Kjudoon]

i see you are joining us from Steiner?

[Molossian Dog]

?

BoS is active in House Marik since day one. We had a short stint at the Kurita/Clan border for about 5 days.

Most of us consider ourselves Regulans. If you consider Regulus a part of House Marik (opinions on that vary), then we are from House Marik.

To associate us with the Elsies is an insult.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 12 January 2015 - 12:54 AM.

[Kjudoon]

my bad...

for some reason I hallucinated you had a fistie next to your name last week.

[Molossian Dog]

Kjudoon, on 12 January 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

...
for some reason I hallucinated you had a fistie next to your name last week.

Not while I still breath.

I´d rather drown the whole Inner Sphere in nuclear fire before I work for the blue devil.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 12 January 2015 - 02:16 AM.

[BigZach]

MischiefSC, on 30 December 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

We should at least have war-games. Pick a world and fight over it.

Push into Steiner, get to Solaris, which we took from them and is near their border, and we can have your wargames :-)

Edited by BigZach, 12 January 2015 - 01:46 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

BigZach, on 12 January 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

Push into Steiner, get to Solaris, which we took from them and is near their border, and we can have your wargames :-)

I was honestly thinking of that a while back, but Steiner is our ally. So I don't think it's gonna happen.