9 replies to this topic

[Sanguiniuss]

Hey all I was just wondering if the AC/5 pilot skill improves the UAC/5 as well. I cant seem to find the improved range pilot skill for UAC/5's other than the clan UAC pilot skills. Thanks!

[Deathlike]

I believe the answer is pretty much no.

[Koniving]

There isn't one for the IS UAC/5. It's a particularly overpowered weapon for the IS.

....it's a god awful weapon for the Clans. (That's to say pretty balanced, but compared to the IS version's OP nature... the Clan version doesn't even stand a chance. 3 shot burst at 1.67 damage each [rounded up so not even that much], the 0.3 second burst time adds that 0.3 seconds to the 'reload' time. The list goes on and on, which pretty boils down to the IS UAC/5 being very overpowered in comparison).

[Ultimax]

Koniving, on 07 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

....it's a god awful weapon for the Clans. (That's to say pretty balanced

Balanced would indicate it is competitive vs. alternative clan options such as the equivalent tonnage of energy+DHS.

They are not.

[Koniving]

Ultimatum X, on 07 September 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Balanced would indicate it is competitive vs. alternative clan options such as the equivalent tonnage of energy+DHS.

They are not.

Balanced would indicate that they are competitive versus alternative Clan and IS options in tonnage, heat generation, firing rate, effective range, while still surviving the paper, rock, scissors, lizard, spock paradox in such a way that it can overpower one and must yield to another. They are not.

This is because the ER LL is still buffed beyond canon values, the Clan pulse lasers are still buffed beyond canon values even after the nerfs, and IS weapons are obscenely overpowered.

Autocannons are meant to overpower in heat efficiency with an inverse of damage to range compared to lasers which in turn have the highest damage to heat efficiency at close range and the least at long range.

In other words, autocannons are cold and heavy, but they have the best damage up close with the worst damage at range. Their tonnage is meant to control boating. The lore intention is that this also comes with a lack of pinpoint due to reasons such as recoil, multi-shot bursts, etc.
Lasers are hot and light and they have the best damage up close with the worst damage at range. The lore intention is that this also comes with pinpoint damage from very quick beams, long delays between firing. Meanwhile their immense heat is meant to control boating beyond the medium-class laser range. Yes, they are supposed to be hotter at longer ranges.

PGI has failed us in making the small and medium classes far hotter than they should be and the large class lasers way too cold with bonus damage and bonus ranges.

On a side note, missiles are meant to be a form of less than reliable, imprecise damage at modest heat and tonnages with a modest firing rate as a go between. Something that can function at lighter tonnages than autocannons and less heat than lasers without ever truly outdoing either. Of the weapon systems, this is kinda screwy too but it is certainly the better balanced of the set.

You, unfortunately, are akin to Paul. You only see 'normalizers' so that everything is 'equal'. You don't see scissors cuts paper, paper covers rock, rock crushes lizard which poisons Spock, Spock smashes scissors yet scissors decapitates the lizard that eats paper that would otherwise disprove Spock on his way to vaporize rock, and as it always has rock crushes scissors.

This is why I'm quite fond of Star Citizen's pentagon equalizer for missiles. It's exclusive to missile variants, but it ensures that no one missile variant can clearly outclass another one. Now if only something can be done about the other gun systems.

A similar method balanced Homeworld and has been an underlying key to non-TT balancing of Battletech that sadly only MW3 ever got close to actually achieving. But then they blew it with a bit of a lack of foresight in the reduction of heat and Pirate Moon's increase in heat threshold.

(In other words you think far too one dimensionally. An equal number of energy weapons + heatsinks would never work unless SL or ER SL, as otherwise you'd never be able to fire enough to outperform 2 UAC/5s in our current firing rates if our heat system was built correctly and without the 20% larger threshold from the skill tree. And even then you lack range.)

(You could try ER ML, but again in our proper heat system at best you could get 5 to fire exactly once and wait 12 seconds to cool. Meanwhile those guys have outdone you by the time you're ready to fire again. Again our heat system is at fault for that not working out as it would otherwise. Yay rising thresholds.)

[Lukoi Banacek]

Koniving, on 07 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

There isn't one for the IS UAC/5. It's a particularly overpowered weapon for the IS.

Could not disagree more that it's "OP" for IS. A different flavor and one of the options that gives IS a balancing factor vs Clans...but not OP in and of itself. Simply better than the Clan flavor of the same. Makes up for some of the Clan advantages, to use IS ballistics.

[Koniving]

Ultimately, all of the issues we have tie back to PGI and liberties taken.

[Koniving]

Lukoi, on 07 September 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

Could not disagree more that it's "OP" for IS. A different flavor and one of the options that gives IS a balancing factor vs Clans...but not OP in and of itself. Simply better than the Clan flavor of the same. Makes up for some of the Clan advantages, to use IS ballistics.

This is true and I can agree with that. Expanding into all weapon systems the Clan autocannons are the scissors. IS autocannons in my opinion should be the lizard, but instead it is the rock. I find them to be far too heavy handed, especially considering that IS bore sizes are smaller than Clan, in other words the IS mechs had at their upper tiers significantly smaller bullets than Clans. (Max 185mm to Clan's max 203mm).

However, hand in hand, an IS AC/5 pretty much outclasses a Clan UAC/5 in pinpoint damage, damage over time (when factoring in jam chances), and pretty much everything except range. And even then the IS AC/5 range is boosted. This is why I say that IS autocannons are overpowered (compared directly to their IS counterparts).

Edited by Koniving, 07 September 2014 - 04:34 PM.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

UAC5 really delivers the damage: with three of them, one can rain them down upon the enemies with ease.
The only problem is that it takes some time for new players to realize how it works in comparison to its standard version (the jam chance and activating it twice with a second click or push); but once they learn it, they get over 800 damage with ease. Boosting its range would be insane.

I have two 'Mechs: Jaggermech with 3xUAC5+1ML and Cataphract with 4xAC5. I would say Jagger is my preference (hands not locked, insane burst damage (hide when jammed), and a laser for extra scratching).

Edited by lunticasylum, 07 September 2014 - 07:18 PM.

[Colonel Fubar]

The UAC5 is juiced enough...No improvement as of yet.