18 replies to this topic

[Bubblewhip]

So in my ,last two games I found that particularly Clan Wolf has been adopting this tactic of rushing the entire Trinary and taking objectives as fast as possible while not caring about kills.

This is an oddly not very clan like tactic but very effective.

The structure seems to be taking extremely fast medium and heavy mechs like the Ryoken(StormCrow) and MadCats(TimberWolfs) only into battle, and disregarding heavier mechs like Daishis(DireWolf).

The first rush is destined to fail which is why this tactic is so dangerous to beginners who think that racking up 12-0 means that you are winning. But usually the first rush will take 1 or 2 generators in addition to opening the door, which leaves one generator and the main objective.

Someone yelled at the team demanding that they stay at the omega objective and counter the rush by holing up there where all the 12 mechs can hope to hold the rush.

This could not be a worse decision.

We did that at Boreal Vault and what ended up happening was that the entire clan team would mostly ignore our mechs and go straight for the defensive cannon. And while we killed 34-12 or something like that it didn't matter because they killed the cannon and won.

the next game i warned everyone that the clanners seem to be adopting this rush tactic and this time it was on Sulfurous Rift. I changed my long range sniping mechs for 2 brawlers (Atlas trial and an SRM Centurion)

Now Sulfurous rift is a much harder map to defend against this rush because of the three gates.

The clanners had ECM and gates alpha and gamma were being attacked but 10 mechs went Alpha and 2 mechs went Gamma. The clanners streamed right through the gates and took 2 generators and lost most of their mechs 12-1.

It was looking like the same scenario all over again....

Instead, after the rush, I persuaded to the entire team we couldn't hole up at the base, if we did there was no way we could DPS down the mechs before they would kill the objective so we HAD to move out.

Luckuly the entire team aggreed and instead of holing up at the generators pushed out at the open alpha gate far from the main objective.

What ended up happening was the clanners were FORCED to engage us or be killed well before they ever got near the objective. Some less organized groups would feel the need to duke it out rather than running past us which may have been the smarter thing to do.

Someone had the brilliant idea on our team is if you were in a slow mech and they ran past, you could simply eject and meet them back at base. Which while counter intuitive to waste a perfectly good atlas is what you NEED to do if you want to win.

After the 2nd wave it seemed like the clanners found out what we were doing and instead regrouped for a surprise rush.

1 Mad cat was trying to cap the Beta gate that was still closed so all of our team holed up there expecting a huge rush at Beta. I ran my centurion to WAY past alpha to check on one my of lance mates that was scouting. Suddenly 12 mechs starting marching right down to Alpha gate, and while I lost my mech, i was able to warn and reposition the entire team to Alpha.

We held off the 3rd wave, but it wasn't over since all 3 gates were open now, and the Omega power generator was exposed for attack and is at 80% health.

The score was 34-20 in our favor and I thought it would be best to rush out to their spawn now splitting in 3 directions of alpha beta gamma, since we had lives that we could eject and get back to base if it was really needed.

Was in the Atlas Trial mech and extended myself out to beta gate, only to find the entire clan team out at Beta gate, warned all of the team and was taking fire from all directions from 10 different mechs.

The thing was that this was good, REALLY GOOD since instead of rushing for the objective, nearly 75% of the team were trying to shoot at this Atlas while the team regrouped to defend the objective at gate beta.

Finally we were able to kill the rest of the clan mechs with the main objective being barely touched.


So after my experience I have a couple of tips for you guys if you see this rush, I think this only works with Clanners since they are the only ones that have mechs that are fast, armored, and armed enough to make this tactic work. IS mechs like most of the Centurions, and Hunchbacks can't go nearly fast enough to make this tactic work.

Tips:

• You are going to win the first engagement, don't get cocky
  
• Realize that they are using this tactic in the first wave,
  
• After the first wave, PUSH PUSH PUSH right out the gate, Make them engage on your terms and not theirs, If you hole up at base YOU WILL LOSE gauranteed
  
• Push at the point where they came from since they most likely will come from that position where the gate opened
  
• Eject if you are out of position (This is fine since you will inevitably have more mechs than them, since they will lose theirs in the process)
  
• Brawler mechs are necessary to defend. Don't get me wrong, Gauss and LRM mechs are good for CW defense but if they are using this tactic you may be fighting close up so bring a mech or two that can fight close
  
• If you are in a fast medium or Light mech, be the ones on the outskirts or defending unlikely positions, You can always reposition yourself quickly to defend the 12 man rush.
  
• Scout after the 2nd wave, most people will find it too predictable to come from the same location a third time.
  
• After the 3rd wave push right out to the spawn splitting up the team. If they are out of position tell them to eject.
  
• Remember that you have the Mech numbers advantage, You can always afford to eject to reposition, it's not about your kill ratio it's about WINNING.

Good luck out there freebirths!

Edited by Bubblewhip, 02 January 2015 - 01:34 AM.

[Mystere]

[Ihasa]

This is not new. We've been using this tactic since mid-way through our FRR contract. Depends on the opponent or our daily objective.

[Bubblewhip]

Mystere, on 02 January 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

Like testtubes would try to analyise IS tactics and try to counter them and acknowledge them as military equals, instead of relying on their superior technology and arrogance.

[Karl Marlow]

I'm not sure if I should point out the flaw in his strategy or just maintain the Marik Borglike reputation.

[StillRadioactive]

ThomasMarik, on 02 January 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

I'm not sure if I should point out the flaw in his strategy or just maintain the Marik Borglike reputation.

This Drone is new. It will adapt.

EDIT: He's still miles ahead of most people. I can't tell you the number of times I've called for a push out of the gates against Clanners and had random pugs outright refuse.

Edited by StillRadioactive, 02 January 2015 - 02:12 AM.

[meteorol]

Depends on the map. On Boreal, beat the first wave then instantly rush out of the gates and spawnrape the goddamn living hell out of the attacking team. There won't be a 2 3 or 4 wave. Just guys getting shot up before they even hit the ground. Don't wait on one side, don't be passive, don't be fair. Get on the huge hill infront of the door, and spawnrape like you never did before.

This horrible map really just asks for doing this.
GG mapdesign.

Edited by meteorol, 02 January 2015 - 03:28 AM.

[ztac]

That is the problem with objectives ...Right now the zerg is the most effective strategy for a lot of people.

[xxREVxx]

Bubblewhip, on 02 January 2015 - 01:32 AM, said:

Tips:

• You are going to win the first engagement, don't get cocky
  
• Realize that they are using this tactic in the first wave,
  
• After the first wave, PUSH PUSH PUSH right out the gate, Make them engage on your terms and not theirs, If you hole up at base YOU WILL LOSE gauranteed
  
• Push at the point where they came from since they most likely will come from that position where the gate opened
  
• Eject if you are out of position (This is fine since you will inevitably have more mechs than them, since they will lose theirs in the process)
  
• Brawler mechs are necessary to defend. Don't get me wrong, Gauss and LRM mechs are good for CW defense but if they are using this tactic you may be fighting close up so bring a mech or two that can fight close
  
• If you are in a fast medium or Light mech, be the ones on the outskirts or defending unlikely positions, You can always reposition yourself quickly to defend the 12 man rush.
  
• Scout after the 2nd wave, most people will find it too predictable to come from the same location a third time.
  
• After the 3rd wave push right out to the spawn splitting up the team. If they are out of position tell them to eject.
  
• Remember that you have the Mech numbers advantage, You can always afford to eject to reposition, it's not about your kill ratio it's about WINNING.

This one knows too much and must be swiftly dealt with.

Seriously though, it is refreshing to see threads in which the IS units develop counter strats instead of the "other" threads.
Good job on your post, OP. You are smart...for a Davion. o7

"Quietly now, hood the freebirth and put him in the transport."

Edited by Reverend Poison, 02 January 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[xxREVxx]

meteorol, on 02 January 2015 - 03:25 AM, said:

Depends on the map. On Boreal, beat the first wave then instantly rush out of the gates and spawnrape the goddamn living hell out of the attacking team. There won't be a 2 3 or 4 wave. Just guys getting shot up before they even hit the ground. Don't wait on one side, don't be passive, don't be fair. Get on the huge hill infront of the door, and spawnrape like you never did before.

This horrible map really just asks for doing this.
GG mapdesign.

I was almost going to call it a flaw in the design of the map but that would not be fair to those who put a lot of work into it. It is more of a situationally dependent, event driven condition that arises due to the enemy's TTP's
Boreal seriously needs some cover added to the map in the attacker DZ (B2, B3, C2, and C3)

[Wildstreak]

I would say the OP is partly right. As StillRadioactive could confirm, we were once on Boreal defending and the two of us disagreed on whether to leave the base or not. Turns out we were both right & wrong.

Still got 2 lances to go with him outside but a few of the Clanners got past them, the lance with me inside were able to intercept them though.

V 2.0
Send your slow brawlers, straight up fighters and most of your force outside, keep a small number of fast strikers inside to catch those that break through.

[MischiefSC]

Shoot them all in the leg.

When defending on Boreal anyone who isn't shooting the enemy in the leg, taking 1 leg and moving on, is flat out doing it wrong.

Clanners manage to finish a rush because there's always a couple of twits who are shooting them in the torso. Due to Clan XLs shooting them in the torsos is largely wasted ammo. It's easier to shoot out 2 legs than 2 side torsos.

Shoot legs. Only legs. All the time. Take 1 leg each target, then clean up.

[Mystere]

Reverend Poison, on 02 January 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

This one knows too much and must be swiftly dealt with.

Hai!

Edited by Mystere, 02 January 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[Bubblewhip]

MischiefSC, on 02 January 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

Shoot them all in the leg.

When defending on Boreal anyone who isn't shooting the enemy in the leg, taking 1 leg and moving on, is flat out doing it wrong.

Clanners manage to finish a rush because there's always a couple of twits who are shooting them in the torso. Due to Clan XLs shooting them in the torsos is largely wasted ammo. It's easier to shoot out 2 legs than 2 side torsos.

Shoot legs. Only legs. All the time. Take 1 leg each target, then clean up.

That only works if your team line up is based around direct firepower and not weapons like LRM's. If your first drop is mostly LRMS this doesn't work and you need to toros DPS them down because the missles can't direct fire the legs.

If you build a direct firepower lineup though and they decide to snipe instead of rush you are screwed.

Edited by Bubblewhip, 02 January 2015 - 07:33 PM.

[TiguriusX]

LRMs are not used for your exact analysis

Leave the nest and warm fuzzy lrm boats behind

Get direct fire and join the big boys in the trenches

[MischiefSC]

Bubblewhip, on 02 January 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

That only works if your team line up is based around direct firepower and not weapons like LRM's. If yoru first drop is mostly LRMS this doesn't work and you need to toros DPS them down because the missles can't direct fire the legs.

If you build a direct firepower lineup though and they decide to snipe instead of rush you are screwed.

If your team is bringing LRMs to fight the Clans then they are going to lose no matter what you do. You'd have more success with harsh language. They'll have a couple Hellbringers every wave and that damage is being applied, when it gets through, in an incredibly ineffective manner.

You can get some use out of LRMs vs IS pugs but not units. Against IS units the 9S has 2x AMS. I've spent most the day rolling Mariks (oh how they love dem LURMS!) nestled in among literally 20 AMS spread among 12 mechs, each with ~2 tons of ammo or more.

Fighting Clanners needs 2 things.

1. A decent sized unit who's showing up to win. They can get away with stacking 9S sniper builds and such. Pugs can't; to deal with Clanners at range you need a PILE of long range gauss/ERPPC/ERLLs or you'll lose the poke-war.

2. AC-heavy brawling builds for popping legs.

If you're pugging on the Clan border you should probably bring ambush-predator short range heavy damage mechs and 2 lights, one with ECM. STAY OUT OF FREAKING SIGHT. Let the Clanners push in, then blow a leg off each one. If you're attacking, alternate zerg and heavy push. Let your heavy pushes focus on legging Clanners so that when you zerg you'll have several enemies out of action as they eject to respawn for 40 seconds or so.

Pugs who take sniper builds and LRMs to fight Clans are why IS teams get rolled all the time.

[pwnface]

If ur bringing an lrm heavy deck you probably gonna have a bad time against anything but pugs.

[TripleEhBeef]

Step 1: Apply AC20 to leg.
Step 2: Repeat Step 1.

Lasers can also be effective if your mech has duration quirks and you have a steady hand. Mechs with shield components and good torso twisting abilities can pretty much waddle through a pile of clanners, blow off a few legs and tank enough damage to loop around and get some more.

[StillRadioactive]

BASS CANNON. APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE ACTUATOR.

BASS CANNON. APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE ACTUATOR.

BASS CANNON. APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE ACTUATOR.