451 replies to this topic

[Aiden Skye]

R Razor, on 04 January 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

It's no more of a problem than seeing almost nothing but Timberwolf and Stormcrow mechs on the field in every single match played.

When I play I see a mix of all the clan mechs though the timby and storm crew are popular no doubt. If you're only seeing 2-3 chassis won't it make sense for PGI to make the others more attractive? Lets face it, a lot of those other clan mechs have a lot of issues that I don't care to get into. Heck the only reason I run my nova for example is cuz I'm a fan of the chassis design artwise, and I like it's low profile. I run it for aesthetics not for it's amazing performance. I sold my Kitfox becuase it was a waste of space with all the IS lights I have.

PGI buffed / quirked all these dead unused IS chassis and look at all the mechs we see in use now.
But I've been looking at your posts for a while. You seem heavily biased against any clan buff....even if it leads to a field of stormcrows and timberwolves. But thats not the point of this thread. The 9s is unbalanced in the scope of long range combat. For both clan and even more so for other IS chassis that are going to be facing it.

Edited by W A R K H A N, 04 January 2015 - 03:48 PM.

[Davers]

Golden Vulf, on 04 January 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

They already had the same Gauss rifles we do.

By same, you mean 3 tons and one critical slot less?

Also I am pretty sure it takes more damage to cut through 2 side torsos than the CT to kill a mech.

Edited by Davers, 04 January 2015 - 04:04 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

By same, you mean 3 tons and one critical slot less?

And despite the fact that it weighs less and takes up less space, I cannot put 2 Gauss rifles on my 75 ton Timberwolf and still expect to run around with armor and ammo. But I can do that on my 65 ton Catapult k2. Please try to keep things in perspective.

[Davers]

W A R K H A N, on 04 January 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:

And despite the fact that it weighs less and takes up less space, I cannot put 2 Gauss rifles on my 75 ton Timberwolf and still expect to run around with armor and ammo. But I can do that on my 65 ton Catapult k2. Please try to keep things in perspective.

We were talking about Gauss Rifles, not on chassis that can use them. So try to keep perspective yourself and not try to make points in an argument no one is having. The person I quoted complained that the IS had 'the same Gauss Rifles' as Clans. I showed him he was wrong. This is the discussion we were having. If you care to add some viewpoint that shows the IS actually does have the same Gauss Rifle as the Clans, feel free to add to it.

Or has this become 'The K2 can carry weapons the Mad Cat can't so it is OP' thread?

[Serpieri]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

Why don't we just ask PGI to buff the Awesome to be better instead of nerving the Thud?

Agreed, why is a 65 tonner better then an 80 tonner mech that was built on utilizing 3 PPC's/ERPPC's where in the case of the thunderbolt it wasn't? Also, in all fairness it shouldn't stop there - the Warhawk should receive equal treatment as well, and these aren't the only stock mechs being punished in MWO and custom builds reign supreme.

Edited by Serpieri, 04 January 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

I don't get why people keep making this a Clan vs IS argument, when the 9S is even more imbalanced when it's facing IS mechs.

It's a problem for everyone, that's bigger than CW.

[Aiden Skye]

Kevjack, on 04 January 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

I don't get why people keep making this a Clan vs IS argument, when the 9S is even more imbalanced when it's facing IS mechs.

It's a problem for everyone, that's bigger than CW.

This x100. I've been saying this the whole time.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Kevjack, on 04 January 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

It's a problem for everyone, that's bigger than CW.

No, the main problem IS CW. Yes the 9s heat quirk should be reduced, but the MAIN issue is brought about by the setup of CW and the maps.

9S is not an issue in the main mode.

[pwnface]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

We were talking about Gauss Rifles, not on chassis that can use them. So try to keep perspective yourself and not try to make points in an argument no one is having. The person I quoted complained that the IS had 'the same Gauss Rifles' as Clans. I showed him he was wrong. This is the discussion we were having. If you care to add some viewpoint that shows the IS actually does have the same Gauss Rifle as the Clans, feel free to add to it.

Or has this become 'The K2 can carry weapons the Mad Cat can't so it is OP' thread?

I'm pretty sure he is just adding some perspective to the discussion and I think it is a valid point. Weapons don't exist in a vacuum, they require chassis to carry them. Clan mechs don't have a lot of viable options for dual gauss while IS has a plethora of them.

[Ultimax]

pwnface, on 04 January 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure he is just adding some perspective to the discussion and I think it is a valid point. Weapons don't exist in a vacuum, they require chassis to carry them. Clan mechs don't have a lot of viable options for dual gauss while IS has a plethora of them.

Outside of the assault range, IS has a small handful of Dual Gauss capable mechs.

Jagers, Catapults and Cataphracts.


All three of them end up as glass cannons to get there, by taking an XL, or they can try and take a standard engine and be slow in the extreme.


All things considered, I'd rather play Dual Gauss on a Sub-optimal Warhawk and waste 10 tons of extra DHS than play any one of those mechs with Dual Gauss and a STD engine.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 January 2015 - 05:17 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

We were talking about Gauss Rifles, not on chassis that can use them. So try to keep perspective yourself and not try to make points in an argument no one is having. The person I quoted complained that the IS had 'the same Gauss Rifles' as Clans. I showed him he was wrong. This is the discussion we were having. If you care to add some viewpoint that shows the IS actually does have the same Gauss Rifle as the Clans, feel free to add to it.



Or has this become 'The K2 can carry weapons the Mad Cat can't so it is OP' thread?

OK guess I have to simplify. Clan gauss may be lighter and take up less slots, but that advantage is often nullified by the lack of slots / usable weight thanks to things like locked JJ, heatsinks and large engines. An IS Gauss may weigh more, but an IS chassis has several ways of gaining more usable weight that the clan chassis does not. This is why a Clan Gauss and IS Gauss can be considered balanced and the same. Hense why my 65 ton K2 can take 2 guass rifles with sufficient ammo and armor. While on my 75 ton timberwolf cannot take much more than a mech that is 10 tons lighter. Just because the Clan Gauss rifle is lighter and takes up less space does not mean you can do more with it.

[pwnface]

XL engines are much less vulnerable when you can outrange enemy mechs. The clans don't have any heavy mechs that dual gauss well.

Putting dual gauss on a warhawk is beyond sub optimal, not to mention it is 85t mech compared to a 65t heavy.

[Davers]

pwnface, on 04 January 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure he is just adding some perspective to the discussion and I think it is a valid point. Weapons don't exist in a vacuum, they require chassis to carry them. Clan mechs don't have a lot of viable options for dual gauss while IS has a plethora of them.

No, that is a separate topic from "Is and Clan have the same Gauss Rifles". He was trying to infer that Clan Gauss rifles are inferior to IS because he can't put 2 on a Mad Cat. But that is a discussion of Chassis, not Weapons.

[Aiden Skye]

Now where did I say they were inferior? I said they were balanced with each other Davers.

Quote

An IS Gauss may weigh more, but an IS chassis has several ways of gaining more usable weight that the clan chassis does not. This is why a Clan Gauss and IS Gauss can be considered balanced and the same

Edited by W A R K H A N, 04 January 2015 - 05:28 PM.

[Davers]

W A R K H A N, on 04 January 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

OK guess I have to simplify. Clan gauss may be lighter and take up less slots, but that advantage is often nullified by the lack of slots / usable weight thanks to things like locked JJ, heatsinks and large engines. An IS Gauss may weigh more, but an IS chassis has several ways of gaining more usable weight that the clan chassis does not. This is why a Clan Gauss and IS Gauss can be considered balanced and the same. Hense why my 65 ton K2 can take 2 guass rifles with sufficient ammo and armor. While on my 75 ton timberwolf cannot take much more than a mech that is 10 tons lighter. Just because the Clan Gauss rifle is lighter and takes up less space does not mean you can do more with it.

This is a comparison of chassis, not weapons. I, and the person I responded to, was not talking about hard point options. He made a statement that the IS and the Clan had the SAME Gauss Rifle.

And on a one for one basis, you can do far more with a Clan Gauss Rifle than an IS one, such as adding 3 more tons of ammo.

Eventually the Clans will have 40+ Chassis like the IS, and if they get a 75 ton mech that can carry dual gauss, that doesn't mean that Clan Gauss 'got better' or that you can 'do more with it'.

[pwnface]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

This is a comparison of chassis, not weapons. I, and the person I responded to, was not talking about hard point options. He made a statement that the IS and the Clan had the SAME Gauss Rifle.

And on a one for one basis, you can do far more with a Clan Gauss Rifle than an IS one, such as adding 3 more tons of ammo.

Eventually the Clans will have 40+ Chassis like the IS, and if they get a 75 ton mech that can carry dual gauss, that doesn't mean that Clan Gauss 'got better' or that you can 'do more with it'.

I think ur missing the point. He was making a second point that was related to the discussion and not disputing your claim that clan and IS gauss are not the same. It's pretty obvious the tonnage and crit slot difference makes them different.

Edited by pwnface, 04 January 2015 - 05:42 PM.

[Zibmo]

W A R K H A N, on 04 January 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

Funny thing Thunderbolts are way over-quirked VS IS chassis. Get into another IS sniper, and try out-sniping a 9S that shoots further, runs cooler and has a shorter cool-down. What other mech does the IS have that can do that? That right there is a problem if you want to be battling IS vs IS or in regular non CW play. The thunderbolt received the Trifecta of ERPPC buffs. 3 ERPPC's generating almost as little heat as 2 standard PPC's + with a faster cool-down + more range? Too much.

Last thing I like seeing when I'm running around in my Jester or other IS long range mechs is an over-quirked 9S. Cuz it that role it just outdoes everything. And THAT is a problem.

Specious argument. What mech does EITHER team have that is equivalent to a TBR? Seems to me, based on your argument, that it's due for a nerf.

You are upset because your Jester, which I have as well and is pretty close to useless, can't stand toe to toe with a 9s?

What mech DOES the Jester stand toe to toe with? Besides a Trenchbucket, I mean.

[Brody319]

the problem isn't that you have 1-2 9S, the problem is you can get a team of +6 and just destroy everything.

1v1 is NOT a good comparison for a TEAM BASED GAME!

[Davers]

pwnface, on 04 January 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

I think ur missing the point. He was making a second point that was related to the discussion and not disputing your claim that clan and IS gauss are not the same. It's pretty obvious the tonnage and crit slot difference makes them different.

Then how does complaining that the TW can't equip 2 like the K2 can keep things 'in perspective'? "I can only equip one on this mech so it is even"? So if, let's say, there was a Hero TW that could equip 2, how would that change 'perspective'? The Gauss Rifle itself would be unchanged, right? That is why I bringing chassis into the discussion doesn't fit. Just like this entire thread is about the Thunderbolt, not ERPPCs.

[R Razor]

KuroNyra, on 04 January 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Was another guy and since you two act with the same stupid way. Kinda counfond both of you.

As I said, and as you continue to prove........no real intellectual argument so continue with the personal attacks.

Much as you were mistaken (so you claim) about my Summoner statements, so too are you sadly mistaken about most everything else you have posted in this (and every other) "nerf the Thud" thread.