451 replies to this topic

[Zibmo]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

Then how does complaining that the TW can't equip 2 like the K2 can keep things 'in perspective'? "I can only equip one on this mech so it is even"? So if, let's say, there was a Hero TW that could equip 2, how would that change 'perspective'? The Gauss Rifle itself would be unchanged, right? That is why I bringing chassis into the discussion doesn't fit. Just like this entire thread is about the Thunderbolt, not ERPPCs.

What? The Thunderbolt is OP? Or the Thunderbolt with 3-4 ER-PPC is OP. Of course the chassis matters.

For the record, I don't believe the 9s to be OP. At 800 yards your target has to practically stand still or you have to be a damned good shot to make 3 of the shots count. Or both.

[ApolloKaras]

I'm not quite sure why everyone wants to nerf this chassis. This is our Timberwolf of the IS without the Jump jets. If you got hit by er ppcs its because the pilot can aim. We would need something to keep up with the point and click adventures the clans are having with 4 ERLL Timby's.

Please note that MS plays both sides, Clan Ghost Bear and IS...

[pwnface]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

Then how does complaining that the TW can't equip 2 like the K2 can keep things 'in perspective'? "I can only equip one on this mech so it is even"? So if, let's say, there was a Hero TW that could equip 2, how would that change 'perspective'? The Gauss Rifle itself would be unchanged, right? That is why I bringing chassis into the discussion doesn't fit. Just like this entire thread is about the Thunderbolt, not ERPPCs.

Are you being dense on purpose? Weapon and chassis balance go hand in hand and should be discussed together. The TDR-9S wouldn't be being discussed if it could only fit one ERPPC.

[Brody319]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

Then how does complaining that the TW can't equip 2 like the K2 can keep things 'in perspective'? "I can only equip one on this mech so it is even"? So if, let's say, there was a Hero TW that could equip 2, how would that change 'perspective'? The Gauss Rifle itself would be unchanged, right? That is why I bringing chassis into the discussion doesn't fit. Just like this entire thread is about the Thunderbolt, not ERPPCs.

K2 has a GIANT CT. easily killed, so giving it a broken quirks like the 9S currently has would just mean its more viable since its easily killed. the 9S is just like the Awesome lost 5 pounds and decided to just go ape ****

[Davers]

pwnface, on 04 January 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

Are you being dense on purpose? Weapon and chassis balance go hand in hand and should be discussed together. The TDR-9S wouldn't be being discussed if it could only fit one ERPPC.

But the 'problem' is the Thud, NOT the ERPPC. I can fit 3 ERPPCs on a Catapult- will there be a thread about how OP it is? Yes, chassis and weapon discussions are related. But not in this case. And I would like to reiterate that this all stemmed from one player saying that Clans and IS used THE SAME GAUSS and me saying that they are NOT THE SAME. Not about how many Gauss Rifles can be equipped to any given mech.

My Thud isn't even Elited for what it's worth. I really don't care what happens to it. And honestly, few units are filled with players that can reliably hit a moving mech at 1200m, which seems to be a concern in this thread. Maybe if people didn't just stand still and trade shots all day there wouldn't be anything to complain about.

[Golden Vulf]

People are purchasing and fielding multiple 9S variants in a single drop.

When instead of a different IS mech, they just buy another copy of one they already have, means the other IS are not as good in comparison.

The Timberwolf and Stormcrow are better than any other clan mechs, but IS calls for a nerf for them.

Well the Thunderbolt 9S is better than any other IS mech, so by IS logic it needs a nerf.

[Davers]

Golden Vulf, on 04 January 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

People are purchasing and fielding multiple 9S variants in a single drop.

When instead of a different IS mech, they just buy another copy of one they already have, means the other IS are not as good in comparison.

The Timberwolf and Stormcrow are better than any other clan mechs, but IS calls for a nerf for them.

Well the Thunderbolt 9S is better than any other IS mech, so by IS logic it needs a nerf.

Maybe all three could be nerfed in the same patch?

[KuroNyra]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 January 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

You do realize that 2x ER-PPC with TWENTY-FOUR (24) DHS runs incredibly cool and can fire at the same rate that a TDR-9S pilot would realistically use at sniping ranges, right? It's also got ECM, so no hope of LRM interference there without TAG or NARC. You also have to keep a mental note of where you are hitting it because you won't have a paper doll to do it for you, adding to the mental workload. Trying to remember such minute details when you've got 11 other people all shooting at you and your allies while also trying to focus an objective can get dicey and can also make the difference between disabling the enemy or getting killed yourself.

Also, if you can't hit a target with a PPC at 800 meters with a projectile moving at 1050 m/s, that extra 150 is not going to help you too much.

Run 12 people with HBRs or TBRs and 2x ERPPC, and you'll be hurting those TDR-9S pretty good. The match will come down to skill. While the TDR-9S could stand to have the heat lowered and the cool-down raised a tad, it's really just the same problem that the Clan units were pointing out to IS solo droppers complaining about how much better Clan tech was: you've got co-ordinated, min-maxing teams demolishing unco-ordinated, hodge-podge teams. It's also not enough to just be co-ordinated when facing the former, you have to also bring your tech set's best equipment.

There are not enough teams bringing said best equipment, co-ordinated or not.

You do realise than to be forced to use TWENTY FOUR DHS to be able to keep with a guy of 65 Ton is completly illogical and ridiculous?

What's next, force the Warhawk to use 30 DHS to be able to compete with the Thunderbolt 9S?

Damn it, you still fail to see that this quirkcs is absolutly stupid and make that thing nothing more man a PPC machine gun who can litteraly almost never stop to shot?

You do realise that the Hellbringer would not have the same velocity advantage like the Thunderbolt has? Making it actually harder to shoot and give more reaction time to the Thunderbolts?
You do realise that PPC and ER PPC desactivate system like the ECM once you hit by it? Not for long, but still making with good aiming possible to be attacked by LRMS? Already done it with guys on skype.


Also, I'm pretty sur Heat Sink don't change the percentage of heat you will get for firing weapons. The only thing it change is the speed that heat goes back to 0%.
When you see that 3 ER PPC for the Thunderbolt rise you at 54% only, there is already something strange. And when you see you actually just have to wait for the 4 second of cooldown of the ERPPC to be able to Alpha strike again. There is definitly something weird.
Let's not talk about the Chain Firing who makes that thing a machine gun of Hight Velocity PPC.




I'm reaaaallllyyy gonna enjoy butthurts tears when that thing will get tuned down like it should. Like the Timber Wolf. Like the Stormcrow.

[Vxheous]

Zibmo, on 04 January 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

What? The Thunderbolt is OP? Or the Thunderbolt with 3-4 ER-PPC is OP. Of course the chassis matters.

For the record, I don't believe the 9s to be OP. At 800 yards your target has to practically stand still or you have to be a damned good shot to make 3 of the shots count. Or both.

At 800 yards, you lead your target to hit with ERPPCs. Normally you would have to be a good shot to make 3 ERPPC shots all hit because the risk/reward of a ERPPC is high FLPPD when you hit, but punishes you for missing by having a high amount of heat. When you take away the heat penalty of the ERPPC (50% reduction), missing a shot does not hurt you in the risk/reward category so much because you can just keep firing.

In terms of the Stormcrow and Timberwolf QQ, the stormcrow hitboxes are rather skinny, so the best way to take them down is to shoot them in the groin (no joke). You will hit either the CT, or you will get a leg. Leg a stormcrow and they become easy to take down. Timberwolf needs an adjustment to the HSR issues revolving around JJ tapping, which will fix alot of the issues of the Timberwolf tanking much more damage that it is supposed to (much like lagshield IS lights).

Edited by Vxheous, 04 January 2015 - 11:31 PM.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

So what I'm getting from all this is that if the TBR got nerfed and the HBR had the exact same quirks as the Thunderbolt, that'd be perfectly okay?

Be careful what you wish for.

[Anjian]

No matter what the walls of text being argued, the red flag of nerf comes when one type is being excessively played over another. (e.g. PPCs over lasers for example). That line appear to have been crossed by the 9S. If we didn't have a lot of competitive people playing the 9S almost exclusively, it may not have come to this point. In fact I believe if we didn't have CW, the 9S may even escape notice.

Nerfs are done in relation, using the yardstick of the same faction's devices, not the opposing one. Talking about it in relation to the Timberwolf or the Stormcrow is irrelevant. If the Timberwolf and the Stormcrow needs to be nerfed, that will be a separate matter and requires a separate study on its own (not saying it will or won't happen).

I am going to try and play my 9S in the pug queue as much as I can before the nerf happens. When it does, I hope its not done excessively (PGI has a bad habit of this) but put the quirks more in line with the Awesome 8Q.

Edited by Anjian, 05 January 2015 - 01:14 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

K2 has a GIANT CT. easily killed, so giving it a broken quirks like the 9S currently has would just mean its more viable since its easily killed. the 9S is just like the Awesome lost 5 pounds and decided to just go ape ****

The K2 isn't AS easy to kill as you make it sound, but it isn't as tanky as a Thunderbolt (and many other heavies). The K2 is a fire support mech and should get the 9S's ERPPC quirks because it does fit its role. Heck, the K2 was designed specifically for that role.

The PPC quirks on the K2 are good, but the mech is a bit vulnerable at close range because of it (especially with its squishier CT).

Either give the K2 the Thud's ERPPC quirks, or give the K2 a PPC quirk eliminating its minimum range. The Vindicators 40% velocity buff to PPCs might be nice too, but that may be asking too much.

[kapusta11]

The best way would be to scale K2 down, however +20 CT structure, +10 RT/LT structure and +20 Arm structure might do the trick.

[MeiSooHaityu]

kapusta11, on 05 January 2015 - 04:43 AM, said:

The best way would be to scale K2 down, however +20 CT structure, +10 RT/LT structure and +20 Arm structure might do the trick.

Its actually not that bad structure wise right now. I have been playing the K2 post 2nd quirk pass quite a bit and it's survivability is good*. I just feel it needs a bit more aggressive PPC quirks.

*Good survivability for the skirmisher/fire support it is. I wouldn't tank/brawl with it.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

the problem isn't that you have 1-2 9S, the problem is you can get a team of +6 and just destroy everything.

1v1 is NOT a good comparison for a TEAM BASED GAME!

oh god you again with your 9s mania. You are in every of the perhaps 10 9s QQ threads.


You can have and i very often see 12 timber pushes. Deal with that first. Then tell me how "op" the multiple 9 s ´s on the enemy team are.

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 05 January 2015 - 05:21 AM.

[MechWarrior9376871]

Cry more. OMFG its not like TDR9s dominates ANY matches. I have never seen one perform crazy numbers like I see all the time out of Timbers, Direwhales, Crows, Embers, Hellbringers, ....

[Widowmaker1981]

Shredhead, on 04 January 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

No, that is the comp build. All other builds are inefficient.

Id argue that point.

TDR-9S

2.5kph slower (i.e. nothing), 1 more heatsink - its not worse for sure, id argue that its better. Main reason everyone uses the 300 is that they don't want to buy a 290, imo.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 05 January 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

the problem isn't that you have 1-2 9S, the problem is you can get a team of +6 and just destroy everything.

1v1 is NOT a good comparison for a TEAM BASED GAME!

There are plenty of 6+ of a Mech that can rule the field. Its called concentrated fire. Ant that is supposed to work that way. In fact any 6+ Mechs firing coordinated are hel to fight. its a TEAM BASED GAME!!!

[WarHippy]

All I know is I loved my 9S before the quirks and you people called it trash, and now it has quirks that are based off of you people calling it trash but still you complain. Did it get over buffed? Maybe, but that is only because you all insisted it was complete crap for so long when it never really was. I say you reap what you sow and need to learn to live with the consequences for awhile.

[MechWarrior9376871]

One nerf I would vote for is limiting CW drops to 4 separate variants of all mechs. That way you cannot have 3 TDR9s. And since this has no effect on clans the sad whining babies on this forum wouldn't feel they had to cry their little eyes out over it.

Actually lets make it so you can't have more than one of each chassis. That would end the OP 3 Stormcrow 1 Timber that every meta clan drops. And would give Summoners some play time, and force Clams to bring lights would would lead to more balanced battles.

Edited by 911 Inside Job, 05 January 2015 - 07:18 AM.