451 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 06 January 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

A 1/1/1/1 setup simply isn't going to work for CW. It won't alter gameplay for competitive groups much because they'll simply do an attrition battle to make you lose your assaults and heavies and mop up with their mediums. PUGs will be so outclassed, they'll quit playing CW entirely.

How would it be any different? If you had a team of 12 for example,, and instead of having a weight limit for your drop deck, You got to choose lights, mediums, heavies, or assaults.. which ever you pick, you need to pick 4 of the same wieght, perhaps being limited to 2 of each mech..

there are tons of things you could do to work with the way drop decks work... and i certainly hope they do, because the way CW is now, it really blows....


[color=#959595]My god what part of[/color] "Fast like AC/5 shell" [color=#959595]don't you get?[/color]


Umm nothing... Just like you can twist and spread damage from an AC-5, maybe one hits.. but if you get hit in the same spot by a second, you are doing something wrong


Yes you can be hit in the same place twice... BUT NOT TWO ALPHA's like i responding too, read the question before you jump to wild acquisitions.. Where is the NERF gauss, or nerf AC-20 threads?? you can be hit by 40+ by many weapon alphas.. . Heck just a couple days ago i was facing a 9S at range.. i got blasted, and twisted as soon as the first hit landed.. got some spread around,, and by the time i made it to cover i was hit a few times all over.. I said screw this, and used cover, moved up and brawled him into oblivion. I was in a mech with LL's and MPL's..

the guy ended the match with like 3-4 kills, and 600-700 damage.. so he must have been fairly decent.. Yet tactics killed him, and our side won..

These boards are so filled with people crying nerf constantly.. But instead of nerf.. why not some simple game play mechanics.. I for one think ghost heat is a good thing.. But flawed in that it only works on certain weapon groups.. add ghost heat to all weapons... fire more than a couple weapons and heat goes up incrementally.. instead of getting ton fire 2-3 alpha's you only get one if you do it all at once, before you are at 100%.. make people fire weapons a bit slower,, more mech like so to speak.. and get ride of this alpha crap,.. and get back to piloting and game play.

don't like hit convergence, Fine,, How about slow down arm movement? so the arms lag behind,, or ahead depending on which way you are going.. No more, alpha all hitting the same spot.. unless the mech was stopped

Make it so weapons from two different sides of the torso have to be spread out a certain degree or distance..

But i see none of that in these threads... just a bunch of so called competitive experts crying for a nerf on one mech, in something called CW beta. Maybe the mech needs a minor PPC heat adjustment.. But come on.. this is boarding on the LRM complain threads which are just laughable these days

Edited by JC Daxion, 06 January 2015 - 03:16 PM.

[operatorZ]

TKSax, on 06 January 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

Actually he is right, I generally Run a HellBringer which has 4 CERLL on one side, fire and move, and torso twist if I think they are going to hit me. The 9S can be countered by a bunch of mechs running CERLL, and even better they are still better brawlers than the 9s.

Actually you are wrong...not only will the 9S out damage your build at range but its a better brawler than your build....for obvious reasons...

I'll name a few:

9S 3 ERPPC build has pin point front loaded damage vs. your 1.5 second laser spray n pray, this means it wins at range and has way more time to spread damage through torso twist vs. your lasers.

9S 3 ERPPC build will not overheat before you with its heat quirks, it will outbrawl you

player skill being equal 9S wins....

its really pretty simple

Edited by operatorZ, 06 January 2015 - 03:40 PM.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

operatorZ, on 06 January 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Actually you are wrong...not only will the 9S out damage your build at range but its a better brawler than your build....for obvious reasons...

I'll name a few:

9S 3 ERPPC build has pin point front loaded damage vs. your 1.5 second laser spray n pray, this means it wins at range and has way more time to spread damage through torso twist vs. your lasers.

9S 3 ERPPC build will not overheat before you with its heat quirks, it will outbrawl you

player skill being equal 9S wins....

its really pretty simple

Forgot to mention you can't play peekaboo either. Due to the lower mounted cockpit, your torso will be visible before you even get LOS. An experienced player is going have pegged your LT before you even can line up weapons on him and about the time you do, he's hit your LT a second time and you're a non factor at that point.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

JC Daxion, on 06 January 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

How would it be any different? If you had a team of 12 for example,, and instead of having a weight limit for your drop deck, You got to choose lights, mediums, heavies, or assaults.. which ever you pick, you need to pick 4 of the same wieght, perhaps being limited to 2 of each mech..

there are tons of things you could do to work with the way drop decks work... and i certainly hope they do, because the way CW is now, it really blows....

A lot of players like playing a specific tonnage range and don't want to be pigeon-holed into having to play mechs they neither like, or are really proficient with... especially in a 30 minute match that they've waited 10-30 minutes to get into.

I don't have a single assault in my deck and don't want one. It's wasted space for me. I know some who don't want anything but lights and mediums. Forcing people to play stuff they do not like is a sure way to lose interest quickly.

[TKSax]

operatorZ, on 06 January 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Actually you are wrong...not only will the 9S out damage your build at range but its a better brawler than your build....for obvious reasons...

I'll name a few:

9S 3 ERPPC build has pin point front loaded damage vs. your 1.5 second laser spray n pray, this means it wins at range and has way more time to spread damage through torso twist vs. your lasers.

9S 3 ERPPC build will not overheat before you with its heat quirks, it will outbrawl you

player skill being equal 9S wins....

its really pretty simple

Your assumption is the 9s hits every shot, which it does not when at the range I trade with it, and it will not in a brawl, I have made them over heat in brawls plenty of times, it also is still the size of a barn down and is easy to keep laser on the side torso to take out 2 of the 3 ppc's.

The 9s is not some super mech, it is great at range, but the rate of fire it during a brawl will cause it to over heat, they are the only mech that the IS has that can compete with the TW, but it is still the second or third best heavy in the the game.

Edited by TKSax, 06 January 2015 - 06:43 PM.

[Ultimax]

HARDKOR, on 06 January 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

Don't let people bring two mechs of the same variant and you won't have a problem.

The problem with this, is that it only penalizes the IS.

You can run 3x SCRs with the exact same build - and yet none of them need to be the same variant.

[Navid A1]

TKSax, on 06 January 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

Actually he is right, I generally Run a HellBringer which has 4 CERLL on one side, fire and move, and torso twist if I think they are going to hit me. The 9S can be countered by a bunch of mechs running CERLL, and even better they are still better brawlers than the 9s.

um... i don't think so. If you are countering something with C-ERLL then there is a 1.5 sec time window where there is bright blue line between you and your target. Which one of its ends is your position. I'm gonna bet that the TDR-9S pilot will blow off a good chunk of your mech while you paint his paper-doll yellow all over the place.

Ultimatum X, on 06 January 2015 - 07:23 PM, said:

The problem with this, is that it only penalizes the IS.

You can run 3x SCRs with the exact same build - and yet none of them need to be the same variant.

That is true. Clans have the advantage of omni mechs if something like variant limit is implemented.

Thats why there is a need for component specific quirks not mech specific quirks

[Symbaalic]

I hear dead people... and they are all QQing.

[Weeny Machine]

MarineTech, on 03 January 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

Show us on the armor display where the bad Thunderbolt touched you.

I hazard a guess...very low at the center torso!

Was it bad?

Ya, sir, he critted 3 times...all over me!

Edited by Bush Hopper, 24 January 2015 - 02:23 PM.

[L3mming2]

Gyrok, on 03 January 2015 - 01:11 AM, said:

I never said all my pilots were better. In fact, I clearly stated (in my second post on this page) I expected to lose with the group we had because they were mostly new players...

I am saying that I even had issues trading against the ERPPC spam from that mech. That sends up a red flag to me. I knew you would win. Hence my comments at the end of the match. However, I also know that I have never dropped against another mech in CW or pugs that trades better than the 9S that most of your unit was running.

Clear as mud now?

1 thing first a macro to fire 2+1 ERPPC's ? try putting them in 2 groops and use chainfire ....
and if u lose exange fire ad long range and lose that trade vs a 9S... then dont do that, its got a 30 alpha fight it from closer, just as 95% from the IS mechs have to do versus any clan mech they face..

[Ultimax]

L3mming2, on 24 January 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

1 thing first a macro to fire 2+1 ERPPC's ? try putting them in 2 groops and use chainfire ....
and if u lose exange fire ad long range and lose that trade vs a 9S... then dont do that, its got a 30 alpha fight it from closer, just as 95% from the IS mechs have to do versus any clan mech they face..

1) You don't need a macro to control 2+1 ER PPCs. Few loadouts could be so simple.
2) Gyrok's claim that he lost exchanges is weak. 800+m exchanges favor hitscan weapons, like CERLLAS. You can move, the target can move and you are almost guaranteed to get damage on target while dodging return fire from the ER PPCs.


If you cannot dodge ERPPCs at 800+m in a mech like a Stormcrow, Hellbringer or Timber Wolf - then this is a pilot skill issue, not a Thunderbolt issue.*


*I did this last night facing a Kurita 9man squad full of TDR-9S, I don't think I was hit with a single ER PPC at 800m on Boreal while I juked back and forth in my Stormcrow while keeping CERLLAS on target.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 24 January 2015 - 03:16 PM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Ultimatum X, on 24 January 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

*I did this last night facing a Kurita 9man squad full of TDR-9S, I don't think I was hit with a single ER PPC at 800m on Boreal while I juked back and forth in my Stormcrow while keeping CERLLAS on target.

Thats just because people in Kurita dont know how to aim

[LordKnightFandragon]

Nope, not OP at all.......its just the only mech you see on the IS side in CW...but its not OP.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 24 January 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

Thats just because people in Kurita dont know how to aim

Oi! I have 83% hit rate with my AC5s!

[spottiedogman]

How about we quit nerfing anything and complain as much about them getting the HR, HSR, and game mechanics fixed then we would not have all these issues of one particular mech being OP, this alone would more than likely balance things better than any of the fixes being done at the moment. Knee jerk band **** never work well with anything and down the road as we have witnessed causes more trouble.

How about a negotiation, you get the TDR-9S nerfed Clanners and we get the TBR & SCR nerfed and everyone can sing Kumbaya?

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Ultimatum X, on 24 January 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

1) You don't need a macro to control 2+1 ER PPCs. Few loadouts could be so simple.
2) Gyrok's claim that he lost exchanges is weak. 800+m exchanges favor hitscan weapons, like CERLLAS. You can move, the target can move and you are almost guaranteed to get damage on target while dodging return fire from the ER PPCs.


If you cannot dodge ERPPCs at 800+m in a mech like a Stormcrow, Hellbringer or Timber Wolf - then this is a pilot skill issue, not a Thunderbolt issue.*


*I did this last night facing a Kurita 9man squad full of TDR-9S, I don't think I was hit with a single ER PPC at 800m on Boreal while I juked back and forth in my Stormcrow while keeping CERLLAS on target.

Agreed on all points. If your trading with CERLL at 800+ meters, you can dodge shots and keep your lasers on track.

I have been trading with TDR-9S's since CW came out, and you want to know what completely counters it? Gauss + CERLL. Heck my Warhawk with 2 ERLL 2ERPPC with TC5 blows a TDR-9S out of the water if im at around 1000+ meters on Boreal. People seriously need to L2P.

Wanna completely counter TDR-9S spam on Boreal? Take 4 Mad Dog C's with 20% cooldown Gauss rifles +2ERLL, can fit 55 Gauss rounds with a TC1 on the build. GG NO RE.

Edited by Alwrath, 24 January 2015 - 04:30 PM.

[Davers]

KuroNyra, on 04 January 2015 - 09:57 PM, said:

You do realise than to be forced to use TWENTY FOUR DHS to be able to keep with a guy of 65 Ton is completly illogical and ridiculous?

What's next, force the Warhawk to use 30 DHS to be able to compete with the Thunderbolt 9S?

Damn it, you still fail to see that this quirkcs is absolutly stupid and make that thing nothing more man a PPC machine gun who can litteraly almost never stop to shot?

You do realise that the Hellbringer would not have the same velocity advantage like the Thunderbolt has? Making it actually harder to shoot and give more reaction time to the Thunderbolts?
You do realise that PPC and ER PPC desactivate system like the ECM once you hit by it? Not for long, but still making with good aiming possible to be attacked by LRMS? Already done it with guys on skype.


Also, I'm pretty sur Heat Sink don't change the percentage of heat you will get for firing weapons. The only thing it change is the speed that heat goes back to 0%.
When you see that 3 ER PPC for the Thunderbolt rise you at 54% only, there is already something strange. And when you see you actually just have to wait for the 4 second of cooldown of the ERPPC to be able to Alpha strike again. There is definitly something weird.
Let's not talk about the Chain Firing who makes that thing a machine gun of Hight Velocity PPC.




I'm reaaaallllyyy gonna enjoy butthurts tears when that thing will get tuned down like it should. Like the Timber Wolf. Like the Stormcrow.

So much Salt. I think we are going to have to remove that White Knight tag you gave yourself....

Alwrath, on 24 January 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Agreed on all points. If your trading with CERLL at 800+ meters, you can dodge shots and keep your lasers on track.

I have been trading with TDR-9S's since CW came out, and you want to know what completely counters it? Gauss + CERLL. Heck my Warhawk with 2 ERLL 2ERPPC with TC5 blows a TDR-9S out of the water if im at around 1000+ meters on Boreal. People seriously need to L2P.

Wanna completely counter TDR-9S spam on Boreal? Take 4 Mad Dog C's with 20% cooldown Gauss riles +2ERLL, can fit 55 Gauss rounds on the build. GG NO RE.

That all the competitive teams have claimed they cannot just trade shots at range with the Clans even in 9Ss has already been stated, and happily ignored, by Clanners.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Alwrath, on 24 January 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Agreed on all points. If your trading with CERLL at 800+ meters, you can dodge shots and keep your lasers on track.

I have been trading with TDR-9S's since CW came out, and you want to know what completely counters it? Gauss + CERLL. Heck my Warhawk with 2 ERLL 2ERPPC with TC5 blows a TDR-9S out of the water if im at around 1000+ meters on Boreal. People seriously need to L2P.

Wanna completely counter TDR-9S spam on Boreal? Take 4 Mad Dog C's with 20% cooldown Gauss rifles +2ERLL, can fit 55 Gauss rounds with a TC1 on the build. GG NO RE.

I dont even get how people are complaining about Clan range anyway. At 700m or w/e, you cant even really hold the beam on target long enough for the damage to even matter.

Clan range is no advantage. Sure, you have psychological effect of dealing damage sooner then your enemy, but seriously.....so you plink 1 dmg on 3 different sections of the enemy.

The game matters once you get into 500 and less range, there, that is where the Clans start to suck. Longer beam times, higher heat, more spread......

IS have all their awesome quirks, they just start to tear the Clans up with significantly more DPS. Clans have more DHS, but the IS deal way less heat, so they dont need the more DHS. Clan have more and NEEd more DHS.

Wonder, what is the Clan WR now? Where is that at Russ?

[Ultimax]

Davers, on 24 January 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

That all the competitive teams have claimed they cannot just trade shots at range with the Clans even in 9Ss has already been stated, and happily ignored, by Clanners.

This is my favorite part, watching many players from the the best units in our competitive community continually state this, state they feel the 9S is fine.

All units that switch back and forth between IS and Clan and have no emotional attachment to either (unlike some of the very, very salty "lore only" units...).


Hell, Gman doesn't even rank it T1 on his personal tier chart anymore for long range builds.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 24 January 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Zoid]

LordKnightFandragon, on 24 January 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

Nope, not OP at all.......its just the only mech you see on the IS side in CW...but its not OP.

And the only reason you don't see people taking more than 2 Timberwolves is because there's no 15 ton clan 'mech to fill out the dropship.

Clans have their god-mode 'mech, so does IS. It just happens that the IS god-mode beats clan god-mode.