414 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

pwnface, on 10 January 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

Pugs should be glad they can participate in CW at all. As a self proclaimed tryhard playing in a unit active in CW, nothing is more fun than doing against another tough 12man. I love that CW eliminates the matchmaker, you never know if you are going to drop against an elite unit or a mediocre one.

For the people complaining about bad pugs in CW, unless you are pulling over 2000 damage every match you don't really have much right yo complain. Want to fight easy opponents? Stay out of CW please.

Even on my team I don't pull 2000 damage and I agree with this. When I have a bad game I look in the mirror and address the problem. I don't blame anything else.

[Monkey Lover]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

But CW was sold as a Teamcentric portion of the game where PUGs and Lone Wolves fill the gaps. Sometimes, those gaps are going to be pretty big!

I Think out of all the solo drops i have done i only dropped with a 11-10 man twice. I would say for the solo player best you can hope for is a 4 man team.

You know if we were able to chat other than seeing "waiting for orders" this would give solo people time to change up drop decks and setup a plan.

We just need to give solo players some tools to help them, Its still going to be very hard but at least they will have a shot. When they do win it's going to be a great game.


Its still a beta game lets hope this fix this asap.

[Joseph Mallan]

Monkey Lover, on 10 January 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

I Think out of all the solo drops i have done i only dropped with a 11-10 man twice. I would say for the solo player best you can hope for is a 4 man team.

You know if we were able to chat other than seeing "waiting for orders" this would give solo people time to change up drop decks and setup a plan.

We just need to give solo players some tools to help them, Its still going to be very hard but at least they will have a shot. When they do win it's going to be a great game.


Its still a beta game lets hope this fix this asap.

I have dropped in a few CW matches as a PUG, I had no change in the quality of opponent being PUG. So far I have only won a single match and that was one without a opponent. CW is tough. Its suppose to be Hard or Nightmare mode. Except for the lack of diversity CW is delivering exactly what PGI promised.

[meteorol]

CW is git gud or git rekt. Much hardcore. It's for the big units.
Just like the old 12 man queue. Huge success. You remember all those countless 12mans slugging it out in the 12 man queue? How it was bursting from the load of countless big units?

[Davers]

Only in CW threads does the Matchmaker get any respect. In every other part of the forum it is considered horrible and people demand it be removed.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 10 January 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

Only in CW threads does the Matchmaker get any respect. In every other part of the forum it is considered horrible and people demand it be removed.

Only in CW is the MM free of Elo. It just grabs 24 players per side and sets them loose. What NOT to like?

[MikeBend]

pwnface, on 10 January 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

Pugs should be glad they can participate in CW at all. As a self proclaimed tryhard playing in a unit active in CW, nothing is more fun than doing against another tough 12man. I love that CW eliminates the matchmaker, you never know if you are going to drop against an elite unit or a mediocre one.

For the people complaining about bad pugs in CW, unless you are pulling over 2000 damage every match you don't really have much right yo complain. Want to fight easy opponents? Stay out of CW please.

How the separate queue for PUGs is ruining your fun by playing against good 12 man team? I thought it would do just the opposite. You can then have all the fun you want. No boring PUG stomps, everybody wins. Or what?

Edited by MikeBend, 10 January 2015 - 06:03 AM.

[Davers]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

Only in CW is the MM free of Elo. It just grabs 24 players per side and sets them loose. What NOT to like?

Well, that was my point.

Where we have match making, people complain about it. Where we don't have matchmaking, people complain about not having it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 10 January 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

Well, that was my point.

Where we have match making, people complain about it. Where we don't have matchmaking, people complain about not having it.

The Doors sang it best.

People are Strange!

[Mott]

MikeBend, on 10 January 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

How the separate queue for PUGs is ruining your fun by playing against good 12 man team? I thought it would do just the opposite. You can then have all the fun you want. No boring PUG stomps, everybody wins. Or what?

Except that useless, uncoordinated PUGS would still have an impact on the campaign map and in many cases ruin the efforts of the groups.

If their queue also meant an entirely different CW universe that they can go bungle around in... Cool.

[Mott]

Weztside, on 09 January 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

I'm just glad there is an actual discussion going on here. On the other hand, no one has answered my question without bias. Has everyone forgotten this is a free to play game and that the filthy casual PUGs dropping solo are the people keeping the servers running by a vast majority? It doesn't make sense to me that people who truly love this game cannot give a single **** about those that pay PGI's bills and that PGI can't give a **** either. Furthermore, all of the counter arguments basically sum up to,"It is indeed ridiculous that this game should be fair in every way possible. If you don't agree then you are wrong and goodbye".

Two things to address there.

1 - I believe PGI has not addressed how ppl are dropping (group vs solo) since early 2014. The stats then were based on a time when PGI had done everything possible to discourage group play, and of course, results would show a low number preferred to group.

Since then the group queues were expanded to allow 2-10 man & 12 man groups, unit tags were implemented, gameplay has been improved and CW beta was launched.

I'd be willing to bet MC that now the number of players that belong to a unit/drop in a group has increased exponentially.

2 - Any member supported organization gets 75%-90% of its funding from 10%-15% of its member base.
Again, I'd be willing to bet MC that the vast majority of PGI's 10%ers come from group players. Group players NEED to buy best mechs, premium time, camos and colors. Group players also have the most fun and enjoyment because they get the comraderie that take MWO to the next level... So they likely have an easier time justifying the repeated cost over time.

This myth that somehow a bunch of pugs that are playing for free, or dropping a bit of cash here and there for a color or a mech bay are the ones carrying PGIs lease... Is laughable.
I'm sure there are a few big fish puggers out there, but they're the exception, not the norm.

[oldradagast]

pwnface, on 10 January 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

Pugs should be glad they can participate in CW at all. As a self proclaimed tryhard playing in a unit active in CW, nothing is more fun than doing against another tough 12man. I love that CW eliminates the matchmaker, you never know if you are going to drop against an elite unit or a mediocre one.

For the people complaining about bad pugs in CW, unless you are pulling over 2000 damage every match you don't really have much right yo complain. Want to fight easy opponents? Stay out of CW please.

I still don't see what's so "great" about not having a match-maker that tries to take skill into account.

What, exactly, is "fun" about finding your little 4-man surrounded by random PUG's up against a 12-man (on defense, of course!) and knowing full well that you've just wasted a half-hour or more of your life in an utterly pointless drop that you have about zero chance of winning?

On the flip-side, what exactly is "fun" about being part of an organized unit with experience and being pitted against random PUG's who have no voice com, no plan, and a few of which are blundering around in trial mechs? Yeah, sure you'll win that match - big whoop - but you've also basically wasted a half-hour of your life.

Does anyone out there really LIKE rolls? And why is it in everywhere else on this forum we have people complaining about laughably imbalanced matches, but here, in the supposedly "elite" world of CW, they are perfectly fine?

No tournament system in the world works that. There's no chess league that pulls names out of a hat and puts barely expert players against grand-masters... there's no football league that pits the local high school team against an NFL team... so why is it suddenly not only acceptable but "fun" here? It doesn't make any sense, and it should come as no surprise to anyone who actually THINKS about it why people are disgusted with this aspect of CW.

Edited by oldradagast, 10 January 2015 - 06:52 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Weztside, on 09 January 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is it possible for a group of random pugs not on comms to be put up against a ten or twelve man team on comms? I mean, all is fair in love and war, I get that. THIS IS A GAME. The goal is for everyone to have fun. How are totally uneven matches fun for anyone?

Because when giving feedback, 12 mans never think about anyone but themselves so the break things.

[oldradagast]

Wildstreak, on 10 January 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Because when giving feedback, 12 mans never think about anyone but themselves so the break things.

Indeed.

Because CW is "hardcore mode and only for elites" - and those same "elites" are completely opposed to any form of match-making that would actually put them in "hardcore mode" and only up against worthy foes instead of hapless targets.

No, we're to believe that "real warriors" like to slaughter random PUG's while in a 12-man and then whine about how bad PUG's are and how they won't join a unit that's bashing them... right...

[Roadbeer]

Wildstreak, on 10 January 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Because when giving feedback, 12 mans never think about anyone but themselves so the break things.

Didn't think I was ever going to get to use this again after large groups were put back in. Thanks!

[Monkey Lover]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

I have dropped in a few CW matches as a PUG, I had no change in the quality of opponent being PUG. So far I have only won a single match and that was one without a opponent. CW is tough. Its suppose to be Hard or Nightmare mode. Except for the lack of diversity CW is delivering exactly what PGI promised.

I'm seeing both sides of this. I drop with Roadbeer in command we killed and been killed by a lot of 12 mans. There is no one I wouldn't try taking on. I am just a solo player with some good mechs who can take commands. I drop solo anywhere else I get maybe 6-8guys who try and few new people and maybe 1 Rambo. We end up getting shut down this is the only nightware mode I have seen. Right now I'm very thankful for the marik community

Edited by Monkey Lover, 10 January 2015 - 09:07 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Monkey Lover, on 10 January 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

I'm seeing both sides of this. I drop with Roadbeer in command we killed and been killed by a lot of 12 mans. There is no one I wouldn't try taking on. I am just a solo player with some good mechs who can take commands. I drop solo anywhere else I get maybe 6-8guys who try and few new people and maybe 1 Rambo. We end up getting shut down this is the only nightware mode I have seen. Right now I'm very thankful for the marik community

This is the truth of it.

Prior to Monkey Lover getting on the Marik TS server, he was a Wild Card. Not to say he didn't have skills, or the ability to follow commands, it was a matter of being able to relay the plan to him quickly in the chat windows and that the instructions wouldn't be lost in the chat scroll. Now that he's on TS, he is an absolute asset.

The way Marik drops right now, we're just a collection of Tier 2 PUGs (using the definition of PUG in the classic sense of Pick Up Group). After 3 years of decimation due to the previous state of MWO, many of the Loyalist Units are unable to consistently field 12 players, or much less, ever field 12, and the majority of our population carries the FWLM tag on our TS, that means that they have not joined any of the Loyalist Units (of the 1300 active members at House-Marik.com, 600 have the FWLM tag, with the rest divided among 13 Loyalist Units and 4 Affiliated Merc Units)

We've overcome this by organizing our CW drops in the way that Stingray (and later Firebahl) ran Marik Monday Madness. We form up in a staging area, press launch simultaneously (sync drop / chaos drop) then those that the Match Maker puts together, move to a different channel. We may get 5, we may get 12. But it's what we have to do to get groups together until Faction Grouping is put in. After the match, we return to the Staging Area and do it again. On the next drop, you may have some people you had in your previous drop, or none. It's a crap shoot.

Our success directly correlates to organization and great drop leaders, that's it. Few members "train" together, many of us rarely, if ever, drop together. Each night, I'll have someone in one of my groups that I've never spoken with before, so in every sense, House Marik is just a collection of PUGs. But ask anyone who drops against us, we have our **** together.

I know that House Marik isn't alone in this, many of the Factions do the same thing in one way or another. So, having said all that, the reason you're dropping solo is because you CHOOSE to do so, all you need to do is download a FREE VoIP and join one of the Faction servers. If you're unwilling to do that, then the difficulty you're facing in CW is entirely your fault, I have no sympathy for you.

Edited by Roadbeer, 10 January 2015 - 09:36 AM.

[Darth Mech]

oldradagast, on 10 January 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

. There's no chess league that pulls names out of a hat and puts barely expert players against grand-masters...

Au contraire, one can play in the Open section of many chess tournaments if one so chooses, including the US Open and World Open, and be a pure beginner matched against a GM. At least in the first round, and maybe even in the second or later rounds. Probably not the last rounds though.

I'm just a B player, and I've been matched up against Life Masters several times in an open section. Many years ago when I was a C player, I was matched against an IM in the first round of the Lone Star Open.

So think of CW as an open section right now. Not saying that is how it should be, just that it is for now.

Edited by Darth Mech, 10 January 2015 - 10:03 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbeer, on 10 January 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

Didn't think I was ever going to get to use this again after large groups were put back in. Thanks!

raise ya!

[Koniving]

Weztside, on 09 January 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Why is it possible for a group of random pugs not on comms to be put up against a ten or twelve man team on comms? I mean, all is fair in love and war, I get that. THIS IS A GAME. The goal is for everyone to have fun. How are totally uneven matches fun for anyone?

Truth be told there'd be no one to shoot if it is not done way.

On a side note, this was 12 Liao pugs with little more than 2 man groups, against an 11 or 12 man Davion.