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Basic, Elite, Master Skills...


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#1 Scum of the Earth

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 09:14 AM

Greetings MechWarriors,

Ok, I have read about skills under a few posts now but some have misleading information or contradictions... (older posts vs newer posts/developments?). So.... I'm asking for clarification about EXACTLY how it works and use the "me little brain so use little words" definitions.

Ok, I understand you need 3 variants of one mech and master all Basic skills to have access to Elite skills. And, you need to unlock all Elite skills for one mech with 3 variant to have access to the Master skill. This is where I am confused.

1.) Can you sell 2 of the 3 variants before you have completely trained the Master skill and STILL be able to unlock the Master skill when you get enough MXP.

2.) If you are working on the Master skill for the first time in one class (light, medium, heavy, assault), Can you purchase additional mechs in that class and have the shortcut of not needing three variants to unlock the different skill levels or do you need to get the Master skill trained before doing that?

3.) If I open all skill levels on one variant and sell it. Then decide to pick that same variant back up at a later date. Will I have to train all of the skills up again or will they be permanently unlocked for that chassis?

4.) Why do clowns sneak into my room at night and steal my socks?

5.) For Pilot - Weapon skills; say you only have 3/5 unlocked and spend the 3mil for the module. Does it grow as well when you unlock 4/5 and 5/5 or is it better to only buy it once you have the 5/5 completely unlocked?

6.) Is there any way to "turn off" certain skills? I have torso twisting with my mouse and when I get the 2x + 20% Twist Speed on a fast moving light mech, it can make circle turning aiming a little tricky on uneven ground.

Thanks guys for the information.

#2 DEMAX51

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 09:24 AM

View PostScum of the Earth, on 12 January 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors,

Ok, I have read about skills under a few posts now but some have misleading information or contradictions... (older posts vs newer posts/developments?). So.... I'm asking for clarification about EXACTLY how it works and use the "me little brain so use little words" definitions.

Ok, I understand you need 3 variants of one mech and master all Basic skills to have access to Elite skills. And, you need to unlock all Elite skills for one mech with 3 variant to have access to the Master skill. This is where I am confused.

1.) Can you sell 2 of the 3 variants before you have completely trained the Master skill and STILL be able to unlock the Master skill when you get enough MXP.

2.) If you are working on the Master skill for the first time in one class (light, medium, heavy, assault), Can you purchase additional mechs in that class and have the shortcut of not needing three variants to unlock the different skill levels or do you need to get the Master skill trained before doing that?

3.) If I open all skill levels on one variant and sell it. Then decide to pick that same variant back up at a later date. Will I have to train all of the skills up again or will they be permanently unlocked for that chassis?

4.) Why do clowns sneak into my room at night and steal my socks?

5.) For Pilot - Weapon skills; say you only have 3/5 unlocked and spend the 3mil for the module. Does it grow as well when you unlock 4/5 and 5/5 or is it better to only buy it once you have the 5/5 completely unlocked?

6.) Is there any way to "turn off" certain skills? I have torso twisting with my mouse and when I get the 2x + 20% Twist Speed on a fast moving light mech, it can make circle turning aiming a little tricky on uneven ground.

Thanks guys for the information.

Ok. First, the basics:

In order to progress to the Elite tree for any Chassis, you need to unlock all 8 Basic skills for three variants of that chassis. (i.e. in order to start unlocking Elite for any Jenner you need to have three Jenners fully "Basiced")

In order to progress to the Mastery tree for any chassis, you need to have all 4 Elite skills unlocked for three 'Mechs in that Weight Class. (i.e. in order to Master your Jenner, you need to have all 4 Elite skills unlocked for three Light 'Mechs, but they can be any three Lights and don't need to be Jenners).

Now, for the rest of your questions:

When you sell a 'Mech, any skills you've unlocked for that 'Mech will remain unlocked. If you re-buy that 'Mech, it'll still have any skills you unlocked and any XP you had for it that you hadn't used yet will still be there waiting for you.

If you're trying to, say, Master Jenners (and they are the first Light chassis you're mastering), you'll need to get three of them through basics, and then get three of them through Elites (because, in this example, these are your first Light 'Mechs and we'll assume you don't have the Elites unlocked for any others). This alone will unlock the Master tier for all of them. At this point you can sell any of them you don't want, and you'll still be able to work toward Mastering the one you've kept.

Now, lets say you've done all that and you decide you want to start working on Ravens as your next 'Mech. You'll need to unlock all 8 Basics for three of them in order to progress to Elite on any of them. After that, though, since you've already "Elited" three other Light 'Mechs (Jenners in this example), you can simply Elite the Raven variants you intend to keep, and then may move on to Master them. You don't need to take all three Ravens fully through the Elite skills, because you've already got three Lights "Elited."

For weapon skills, yes, if you buy them at Level 3, and then later upgrade them, you ones you've already purchased will automatically be upgraded as well.

You can not "turn off" chassis skills. If you have the option to, you may want to lower your mouse' DPI setting or your mouse sensitivity in game to improve your accuracy.

Finally, clowns are jerks.

TL;DR version:

- You must always unlock all of the Basics for 3 variants of a Chassis before you can progress to Elite on any of them.
- You must always unlock all 4 of the Elites for 3 variants in a Weight Class before you can progress to Master on any 'Mechs in that weight class.
- Once a skill-tier is "unlocked" (i.e. the point where you can start purchasing the individual skills) you can sell any other chassis or variants and you'll still be able to unlock the skills for the one you kept.
- It's usually a good idea to take 3 variants of the first 'Mech you buy in a weight class all the way up through Elites, at minimum. (i.e. your first Light is Jenners, you should Basic and Elite all three of them so that you'll have 3 Light 'Mechs Elited. This makes it faster and easier to Master other Light 'Mechs later).
- Any skills you unlock are unlocked permanently, even if you sell the 'Mech.
- Nomenclature: after you've purchased all 8 Basics for a Variant you can say you have that 'Mech "Basiced." After you purchase all 4 Elite skills for a Variant you can say you've got that 'Mech "Elited." After you've purchased the one Master Module Slot you can say you've got that 'Mech "Mastered."
- Clowns are still Jerks.

Edited by DEMAX51, 12 January 2015 - 10:22 AM.


#3 Viken

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 09:25 AM

View PostScum of the Earth, on 12 January 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Ok, I understand you need 3 variants of one mech and master all Basic skills to have access to Elite skills. And, you need to unlock all Elite skills for one mech with 3 variant to have access to the Master skill. This is where I am confused.


3 of the same CHASSIS ([Centurions] CN9 A, CN9 AH, CN9 YLW for example) to unlock ELITE
3 of the same WEIGHT CLASS (1 elited CN9, 1 elited HBK, 1 elited BJ for example) to unlock MASTER

Quote

1.) Can you sell 2 of the 3 variants before you have completely trained the Master skill and STILL be able to unlock the Master skill when you get enough MXP.


Yes, once the SKILL is unlocked, you can sell the variant and it will still count towards any requirements, regardless if you OWN that variant or not.

Quote

2.) If you are working on the Master skill for the first time in one class (light, medium, heavy, assault), Can you purchase additional mechs in that class and have the shortcut of not needing three variants to unlock the different skill levels or do you need to get the Master skill trained before doing that?


You still need to go up the tree of "Basic 3 of the same Chassis" to unlock Elite. However, once you've unlocked Elite, you can straight Master the mech if you've already ELITED 3 of the same weight class.*

*This could be clarified, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote

3.) If I open all skill levels on one variant and sell it. Then decide to pick that same variant back up at a later date. Will I have to train all of the skills up again or will they be permanently unlocked for that chassis?

They are permanently unlocked. If you have a CN9-A, Master it, and buy it again 6 months later, it will be Mastered when you buy it, since you've already unlocked the Skills.

Quote

4.) Why do clowns sneak into my room at night and steal my socks?

That's scary. I only have to worry about my dog stealing my socks. It doesn't help that he has razor teeth and shreds them if I try to take them back while he's chewing on them. So... I don't leave them out. Have you tried hiding your socks?

Quote

5.) For Pilot - Weapon skills; say you only have 3/5 unlocked and spend the 3mil for the module. Does it grow as well when you unlock 4/5 and 5/5 or is it better to only buy it once you have the 5/5 completely unlocked?

Yes, the Module scales to whatever skill you have unlocked, it is not a module purchase per level.

Quote

6.) Is there any way to "turn off" certain skills? I have torso twisting with my mouse and when I get the 2x + 20% Twist Speed on a fast moving light mech, it can make circle turning aiming a little tricky on uneven ground.

To my extent of knowledge, there is no way to turn off a skill. You might try reducing your mouse sensitivity?

Quote

Thanks guys for the information.

No problem.

Edited by Viken, 12 January 2015 - 09:27 AM.


#4 Redshift2k5

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 09:26 AM

1. Yes, once you have Elite unlocked on 3 mechs in the same weight class, you can sell any of them and still reach Master. Skills unlocked stay unlocked even if you sell.

2. you will always need 3 variants of the same mech in a class because you need 3 variants of the same mech to complete Basic and unlock Elite.

3. all skills unlocks stay unlocked even if you sell. If you buy the same variant again, all the skills are right where you left them.

5. Weapon modules automatically update when you unlock higher tiers, you do not need to re-buy the module.

6. No, you cannot turn off skills. you may want to adjust your mouse sensitivity though.

To recap: if you buy a skill or unlock a tier it will always be bought/unlocked. you always need 3 variants of each chassis with basic complete to reach elite/master. You can complete Elite on any 3 mechs in a weight class to reach Master.

#5 Wintersdark

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 09:27 AM

1. The skills you learn with a mech are not tied to that particular mech, just that variant. Sell it, buy it again or don't, it doesn't matter - you've learned those skills and still have them for all intents and purposes.

2. Yes. You need three variants of one type with full basics to learn Elite skills, but you can learn Mastery so long as you've got all the Elite skills on that mech unlocked and all the Elite skills on any two other mechs in that weight class.

So, for example: Back in the day, I bought a Flame, and two other Dragons. I'd already mastered Catapults at that time. I learned basic skills on all three Dragons, and then sold the other two Dragons. As I has basics in them (even though I didn't own them anymore) I was able to learn Elite skills on my Flame. From there, I could master my Flame because I had all the Elite skills on a couple Catapults as well as the Flame itself.

3. See 1.

4. Because broccoli.

5. The module gets better, you don't need to buy new ones.

6. No.

lol when I started writing that, there were no posts here. I'm too slow :(

#6 Viken

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 09:36 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 12 January 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

lol when I started writing that, there were no posts here. I'm too slow :(


You and me both. :)

#7 Sadistic Savior

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 09:38 AM

View PostScum of the Earth, on 12 January 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors,

Ok, I have read about skills under a few posts now but some have misleading information or contradictions... (older posts vs newer posts/developments?). So.... I'm asking for clarification about EXACTLY how it works and use the "me little brain so use little words" definitions.



For Pilot Skills:

- They are earned in tiers (Basic, Elite, Master), You must complete one full tier for at least 3 variants before the next one will unlock.

- Skills are only PER CHASIS (Hunchback, Locust, ect). They are not per class (light/med/heavy). You will need to do this process on any mech chasis you buy.

- It does not matter what order you fill the tier in. Only whether or not it is complete. You can choose whatever skills in whatever order you want for that tier.

- You can continue to rack up XP for that mech even if you have not unlocked the next tier. When you DO unlock the next tier, you can spend what you have stored up, so it is not wasted. (I have instantly Elited and Mastered in mechs before using stored XP like this...as soon as the tier is unlocked, I was able to buy all skills in it immediately).

- Acquired skills are permanent for that mech, even if you sell it. If you buy it back again, the skills will be there. (So will any XP for that mech).

- If you unlock a tier, yes, you can sell the other variants and it will remain unlocked. Be aware you might still need the variants if there is another tier above that to unlock later. (of course you could always just buy them back again...but it'll cost you CBills).

- Champion and Hero mechs count as variants for the purposes of these skill trees. And you can level them up as well.

- Skills are always active and cannot be turned off once you gain them.




For modules:

- You first have to unlock them in the Skills section. They are unlocked in stages (I think there are 5). I think you can buy modules even if you onlock only stage 1, but I have always unlocked all 5 at once.

- After the skill is unlocked, you will be able to equipe (and buy) the module in the "Configure" screen for that mech. Be aware that they are expensive.

- You can unequip modules and move them to other mechs. Mech-level (not weapon-level) modules can even be used across IS and Clan mechs.


Edited by Sadistic Savior, 12 January 2015 - 09:46 AM.


#8 TercieI

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 10:10 AM

View PostSadistic Savior, on 12 January 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:



For Pilot Skills:

- They are earned in tiers (Basic, Elite, Master), You must complete one full tier for at least 3 variants before the next one will unlock.

- Skills are only PER CHASIS (Hunchback, Locust, ect). They are not per class (light/med/heavy). You will need to do this process on any mech chasis you buy.

- It does not matter what order you fill the tier in. Only whether or not it is complete. You can choose whatever skills in whatever order you want for that tier.

- You can continue to rack up XP for that mech even if you have not unlocked the next tier. When you DO unlock the next tier, you can spend what you have stored up, so it is not wasted. (I have instantly Elited and Mastered in mechs before using stored XP like this...as soon as the tier is unlocked, I was able to buy all skills in it immediately).

- Acquired skills are permanent for that mech, even if you sell it. If you buy it back again, the skills will be there. (So will any XP for that mech).

- If you unlock a tier, yes, you can sell the other variants and it will remain unlocked. Be aware you might still need the variants if there is another tier above that to unlock later. (of course you could always just buy them back again...but it'll cost you CBills).

- Champion and Hero mechs count as variants for the purposes of these skill trees. And you can level them up as well.

- Skills are always active and cannot be turned off once you gain them.





For modules:

- You first have to unlock them in the Skills section. They are unlocked in stages (I think there are 5). I think you can buy modules even if you onlock only stage 1, but I have always unlocked all 5 at once.

- After the skill is unlocked, you will be able to equipe (and buy) the module in the "Configure" screen for that mech. Be aware that they are expensive.

- You can unequip modules and move them to other mechs. Mech-level (not weapon-level) modules can even be used across IS and Clan mechs.





As I corrected you in another thread: Not quite right: Accessing elite skills is by chassis, accessing the master "skill" is by weight class.

#9 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 11:40 AM

Also, someone pls explain to him that the "Mech3" is the same as the "Mech3C" for the purpose of the 3 chasis rule so he doesn't buy a mech that's essentially a duplicate and wont count.

I'm too new to phrase it correctly... and the wifey is making me practice "not speaking with authority on topics I don't understand" or something :)

#10 TercieI

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 11:47 AM

View PostFenrisulvyn, on 12 January 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

Also, someone pls explain to him that the "Mech3" is the same as the "Mech3C" for the purpose of the 3 chasis rule so he doesn't buy a mech that's essentially a duplicate and wont count.

I'm too new to phrase it correctly... and the wifey is making me practice "not speaking with authority on topics I don't understand" or something :)


LOL. You explained it pretty well, actually. A Champion mech is the same mech as its respective basic version. For example a CN9-A and CN9-A(C) are the same mech for skill purposes. The good news is that My JR7-F being mastered allowed me to buy two JR7-F(C)s and have them already mastered. The bad news is that if you want to level Ravens, you can't level the RVN-3L, RVN-3L(C) and Huginn, you have to level either the RVN-2X or RVN-4X. The rule of thumb is that if it has the same hardpoints, it's the same variant. Thus, C, S, F, P, I, G and soon R (I'd assume) variants are the same as the basic version, where named heroes are their own versions. This is also why they all show as Champions in Mechlab. PGI is basing that on the skill parallel, though most players mean "XP bonus" when they say "Champion" (Only C&S are this, the others all have "Hero" style MC bonuses).

#11 Sadistic Savior

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 03:05 PM

View PostTerciel1976, on 12 January 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:


As I corrected you in another thread: Not quite right: Accessing elite skills is by chassis, accessing the master "skill" is by weight class.

I'll take your word for it...I've mastered 3 Assault Chasis so far (Highlander, King Crab, and Battlemaster), and it is not letting me access the Master tier until I complete Elite in 3 mechs of a given Chasis. Maybe I am missing something.

#12 TercieI

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 03:10 PM

View PostSadistic Savior, on 12 January 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

I'll take your word for it...I've mastered 3 Assault Chasis so far (Highlander, King Crab, and Battlemaster), and it is not letting me access the Master tier until I complete Elite in 3 mechs of a given Chasis. Maybe I am missing something.


That's odd. I've done it with lots of mechs. SDR-5D/K mastered, 5V sold after basic, lots of clan mechs, etc. It really is supposed to work that way, if there's one you want to skip, you might want to contact support.

#13 Scum of the Earth

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 03:18 PM

View PostTerciel1976, on 12 January 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:


As I corrected you in another thread: Not quite right: Accessing elite skills is by chassis, accessing the master "skill" is by weight class.


Thanks Terciel, I thought when I read that post, it seemed to be opposite of a few other people's posts. As long as we're all on the same page, that's what I want.

Now... to just make sure I understand the rules here... and I want to beat a dead horse until it sings me Happy Birthday...

Example: I buy 3 different variants of the Shadowhawk. I train all 3 versions all of their 8 basic skills. I then further train all 3 variants their 4 Elite skills. At this point, can I sell two of them and only buy 1 Griffon and then train that Griffon all the way up to Master. OR, do I need to buy 3 Griffons and train all 3 their 8 basic skills in order to get 1 of them to Master?

#14 Sadistic Savior

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 03:30 PM

View PostTerciel1976, on 12 January 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

That's odd. I've done it with lots of mechs. SDR-5D/K mastered, 5V sold after basic, lots of clan mechs, etc. It really is supposed to work that way, if there's one you want to skip, you might want to contact support.

If it comes up again I will. I have mastered all the ones I really wanted already (all assaults). But I am not moving into Clan mechs, and the ones I like are Heavies and Mediums.

#15 Omi_

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 03:55 PM

Quote

OR, do I need to buy 3 Griffons and train all 3 their 8 basic skills in order to get 1 of them to Master?


This is exactly how it works.

#16 RazarG

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 03:58 PM

View PostScum of the Earth, on 12 January 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:


4.) Why do clowns sneak into my room at night and steal my socks?



I wont go into too much detail, but clowns need mismatched socks. Its essential to their look. Now with socks being fairly standard these days and looking too similar, a clown needs a wide array of different socks in order to find 2 mismatching socks that do not look similar.

There is actually a science between pairing mismatched socks, but its a clown trade secret, sorry mate.

#17 TercieI

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 04:32 PM

View PostScum of the Earth, on 12 January 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

Example: I buy 3 different variants of the Shadowhawk. I train all 3 versions all of their 8 basic skills. I then further train all 3 variants their 4 Elite skills. At this point, can I sell two of them and only buy 1 Griffon and then train that Griffon all the way up to Master. OR, do I need to buy 3 Griffons and train all 3 their 8 basic skills in order to get 1 of them to Master?


Hornsby basically answered, but I'll spell it out a bit more: With three mastered SHDs, if you want to get a GRF-3M ready to rock (and you do ;) ), you'll have to buy three GRFs and get them through basic. Once you've done that, you can take that 3M all the way to mastery.

This, as I've stated many times in many threads, is why I strongly suggest your first chassis of each weight class be one with 3+ at-least-good variants, so getting three through elite won't be too painful. For instance, start lights with Firestarters or Jenners, do Spiders later because the only one that's really worth anything is the 5D.

#18 Barber the Clown

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 04:44 PM

I am not a jerk, unless you're on the other team. Then I'll shoot you in the back.

#19 dragnier1

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 03:31 AM

View PostViken, on 12 January 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:


3 of the same CHASSIS ([Centurions] CN9 A, CN9 AH, CN9 YLW for example) to unlock ELITE
3 of the same WEIGHT CLASS (1 elited CN9, 1 elited HBK, 1 elited BJ for example) to unlock MASTER



Best way to explain is to give examples. This gets 5 stars.

#20 Shar Wolf

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 11:26 AM

Skimmed through - but I didn't see much else that needed saying (I think?)
Anything I missed that I ought to patch into this?

wrong aught. :blush:

Edited by Shar Wolf, 14 January 2015 - 11:26 AM.






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