186 replies to this topic

[Bows3r]

Yup, I'm a huge BT canon fan, but one can't go around using stock canon 'mechs in MW:O sadly.

[RG Notch]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

Shhhh, impaired troll, no.

Smart people are talking.

In this thread? Where?

[Krivvan]

oldradagast, on 13 January 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

Better tutorials, mentor-mentee systems, private training matches FOR FREE, and so forth, could all help that. Integrated voice coms (your team only) would help, but only if it has a mute button or maybe an option where it only works with the people in your group that dropped in... There are ways this could work, it just will take some effort and tests.

Sites like metamechs are great for this. I'm planning on fixing up the wiki too which I think should be a major concern. Everyone who streams provides a tool for helping new players learn. There are groups that do training matches too but that only helps people who are willing to get better.

You're doing an awful lot of strawmanning and constructing for yourself your opponent that you blame problems on.

Edited by Krivvan, 13 January 2015 - 07:52 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

What you are seeing is a carry-over from sports behavior that evolved an attitude that trash-talking the opposition was proof one was strong and confident, and better than the other 'team'. This became expected conduct on most sports teams, to the point that children and young adults emulated this as the way one behaved towards any opposition.

The idea that you could admire and compliment an opponent became seen as a sign of weakness, and became ridiculed in popular sports culture. When video games came into mainstream use, this attitude was carried over into them by the gamers who grew up only knowing that way of seeing things.

Players who come into MWO and see it only as a game to be used for their own amusement and as a sports event are primarily the ones you will see doing this kind of behavior. Why? Because respect for the other players on the other side of the screen is both alien to them, and gets in the way of their idea of 'fun'.

However, there are those out there who don't subscribe to that culture of one-upmanship, and see the game as about more than their personal amusement. Further, there are Units that try to encourage their players to be professional in their conduct, though even these can lose sight of their ideals when the beer flows or they are looking to blow off steam.

Ultimately, every person has to choose how they will behave towards others. No one can do that for them, and no dev can moderate that. Those who want to disrespect others because 'it's just a game', or 'because it's fun', or 'I don't care' will continue to do so no matter what anyone says. Those who want to be better than that will try to act honorably towards those they play this simulation with, and treat the game as more than just a tool for fun.

We each decide who we will be, after all.

[RG Notch]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

lol.... I don't know... definitely not Roadbeer though.

I'm pretty sure you don't know, I'm not laughing with you....

[xxREVxx]

Thread's going nowhere...

[Kenyon Burguess]

what was this topic about again? oh yeah behavior....which was then derailed and devolved into name calling. if you cant post and discuss without banning your opfor, you prolly shouldn't post to begin with ppl

[xMEPHISTOx]

Reverend Poison, on 13 January 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

Thread's going nowhere...

[Tarl Cabot]

xMEPHISTOx, on 13 January 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

Is it at the necessary angle to get the most thrust from that?! I would put a belt and some weights on the bottom to stabilize it.

Does game chat get toxic at times? Sure it does. We can be our own worse enemy. Does it help when we react to something said? Not if it is done in a negative way cause you have given up control.

Give us an actual major/minor faction/planetary lobby so more people will be able to group up as well as having the ability to kick someone from said temp group can go a long way to curbing said antics. Add mute/ignore ability/swear filter would allow players more control over what they hear and from whom. Until then what does matter though is how the community overall handles it but in the current environment and lack of controls it can very difficult.

That will not stop those who are simply toxic and refuse to change. All that can be done is hope they cross that line that will get them banned.

On the other side people do get frustrated, expect things to have been done right and complete the first time around, or they want almost instant results when they believe things can be improved on. The forums are currently the only way to give our point of views, unfortunately at times it is done in frustration, other times for complete disregard for others. They are sitting somewhere behind a desk looking at a monitor. There is no accountability, and how can there be when the community as a whole may not be on the same page of the same book without the tools such as a bookmark and a lamp read by? ?

Bah, I am rambling

[Thoman Coston]

Ilithi Dragon, on 13 January 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

<snip>
I've heard stories about many of the matches, particularly in the Clan factions, where PUGs face vitriol and hatred in drops, and are sometimes even TK'd or legged for not taking the "correct" mech, whether or not they had that mech available, or even understood the language they were being instructed in.
<snip>

To come back to the topic. That is exactly what happened to a team mate of mine, which prompted OP to start this thread. The point is about attitude of some rotten apples within some units.

A team mate of mine spent 45 minutes in the CW queue to get a game and when he finally dropped in the game, he did not even get to play because the other CJF unit he was teamed up with decided to shoot at him and leg him. So he has wasted 45 precious minutes of his busy life to play a game he loves, only to get team legged. Instead of playing, he ended up disconnecting from the drop in disgust.

What is needed here is for people to raise their maturity level, especially unit leaders should never tolerate such childish behaviour of their members.

[Jakob Knight]

Thoman Coston, on 13 January 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

To come back to the topic. That is exactly what happened to a team mate of mine, which prompted OP to start this thread. The point is about attitude of some rotten apples within some units.

A team mate of mine spent 45 minutes in the CW queue to get a game and when he finally dropped in the game, he did not even get to play because the other CJF unit he was teamed up with decided to shoot at him and leg him. So he has wasted 45 precious minutes of his busy life to play a game he loves, only to get team legged. Instead of playing, he ended up disconnecting from the drop in disgust.

What is needed here is for people to raise their maturity level, especially unit leaders should never tolerate such childish behaviour of their members.

While I agree such actions as you describe should be (and are, unless I'm mistaken) reportable offenses, the problem is that people can only raise their maturity level if they have that level to raise to. MWO isn't a closed game with a vetting process (aside from the difficulty of learning it), so you find every kind of person running around in a 'mech and on the forums, many of whom had and have no interest in being responsible or respectful. The Unit leaders are, in the end, just like those they lead, with no requirements for them to act or be any more mature than their Unit, beyond those they set to themselves.

About the only things you can do is attempt to show people how they are being immature (by explaining it to them, not by being immature yourself), and if that fails, by finding a group of people to play with who have that maturity level you want. I hate to say it, but that is about the only way to accomplish what I think the OP wants to accomplish with this post, and one of the benefits of being part of a large Unit that has standards of conduct. While players may chafe at being told how to act, it also provides an environment where they can count on others supporting their play who won't sabotage their gameplay or violate their own standards of play.

If people are still acting as you describe, even knowing they may be banned from the game for it, then the only thing you can do is find others to stand at your back who won't.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 14 January 2015 - 03:09 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbeer, on 13 January 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

While I agree that the game itself is somewhat unforgiving to the new player...

The forums are newbie friendly, they're just overly hostile to stupidity.
I've never seen anyone blasted for an honest question, just for bad Unpopular opinions.

Fixed that. Not all the hostility has been aimed at bad opinion. Just saying.

[Roadbeer]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 January 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:

Fixed that. Not all the hostility has been aimed at bad opinion. Just saying.

No, it looks better that way.

TYVM.

[Tywren]

Jakob Knight, on 14 January 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

If people are still acting as you describe, even knowing they may be banned from the game for it, then the only thing you can do is find others to stand at your back who won't.

They act this way because they know that there is actually very little chance of them getting ban, becaus it seems PGI doesn't even bother reading the reports anymore.

[Ax2Grind]

...I am pretty sure PGI does read them and act on them when necessary.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 14 January 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[Revis Volek]

So this thread itself has become a poster child for the exact thing that was named in the title...


Well done everyone.

[Mangonel TwoSix]

Marack Drock, on 13 January 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Oh look king trollolololol is here. Hope you don't end up like your buddy vassago....

Anyways back on topic this community IMO is toxic.

You can't take the actions of a portion of the community and declare the entire community toxic. Its all about how you 'consume' the community. Bottom line it comes down to respect. Have respect for your opponents and have respect for yourself. I play a lot of CW, and you see poor sportsmen from every faction. As was said earlier it is a 'internet' thing as well. Many people routinely say things to someone on the internet they would not dare to say in public.

If you think the community is toxic, join a unit that prohibits it. If having people call you names or degrade you bothers you, turn off the opposing teams <All> chat. Then you will not have to deal with it at all. I'd agree with the OP in that it is sad that it has come to having to take those measures, that some human beings can't show the least modicum of respect for their opponents. Fortunately I don't see that kind of behavior regularly.

I'm glad I belong to a gaming organization where our core values strictly prohibit degrading opponents. I don't have to see that mess unless I choose to turn all chat on.

[SuomiWarder]

The issue of poor sportsmanship in an on line game is pertinent to the long term survivability of a game community. But not something easily changed or "fixed". I am one of the Old Guard - that played the board game, paid to play in the first BattleTech Pod businesses and played Cresent Hawk's Inception and Mecharrior 1. A lot of us wrongly feel we have a vested interest in B Tech and should have more community influence than new players. I feel that way too sometimes even if I intellectually know better.

But just because trash talk is common, and most PvP games have a tradition of belittling opponents does not mean that we all throw up our hands ad say "It is what it is, just deal".

Players take personal responsibility. Remember that if all the opponents go away you don't get to play. Refraining from chat digs and insults is in your own self interest even if you have no interest in the moral position of being a "good sport".

Unit leaders - don't accept poor behavior from your members.

PGI - learn from other games how to set up varying levels and types of gaming so that MWO can be several things to several types of players instead of one thing that caters to only one type of player. This is not the NFL, NBA or Nascar where only top skilled, best equipped are qualified an welcome to play. You cannot directly control the community and probably do not want to be in the position of policing your customers. But you can design for different levels of player strata and to assist new players into the game, and perhaps give registered units perks of some sort that a member would not want to lose so they are more inclined to adhere to unit guidelines on in game behavior.

[Krivvan]

Tywren, on 14 January 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

They act this way because they know that there is actually very little chance of them getting ban, becaus it seems PGI doesn't even bother reading the reports anymore.

Trust me, there are offending players who have gotten perma-banned for behaviour and players who are routinely banned for other shorter periods of time for behaviour.

[Krivvan]

SuomiWarder, on 14 January 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

PGI - learn from other games how to set up varying levels and types of gaming so that MWO can be several things to several types of players instead of one thing that caters to only one type of player. This is not the NFL, NBA or Nascar where only top skilled, best equipped are qualified an welcome to play. You cannot directly control the community and probably do not want to be in the position of policing your customers. But you can design for different levels of player strata and to assist new players into the game, and perhaps give registered units perks of some sort that a member would not want to lose so they are more inclined to adhere to unit guidelines on in game behavior.

A league system that segregates different types of players would be best. The issue is the population size.