769 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

I want the urbie quite a lot. But sadly no payment options for me to get it.

Gonna go see if I can get the urbie in a competition for it some other thread has for it. If that fails I got a friend that could get me the 20 dollar package, even though I would love the 40 dollar pack.

[Donnerkeil666]

What the lag shield is to the common light mech, is the "cute shield" for the urbie. Comments of "ahh, look how cute he is" will be met with instant death.

[Johnny Reb]

Rakshasa, on 20 January 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

Heh this! If the Urbie is viable thats a plus! I just wanted it, now lets have 12 v 12 Urbie matches.

[Wolfpack75]

Payday is here, so add one Collector's edition to the count.

[Rhaythe]

Donnerkeil666, on 23 January 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

What the lag shield is to the common light mech, is the "cute shield" for the urbie. Comments of "ahh, look how cute he is" will be met with instant death.

Only haters will shoot urbies. I like it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 23 January 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

That was ages upon ages ago, pretty sure whatever notebook I drew it up in is long gone. We just gotta wait for Bishop to dig up his.

if I could find a vehicle generator as easy as a mech one, online, I'd need about 30 seconds, lol

[Rakshasa]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 January 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:

just remember...one hallmark of the Urbie? Aside from really dumb things like the LAM? Cheap. Anyone can go and toss XL engines and endo to make it "better", but relaistically, no commander ever would

Reminds me of my design for a "deluxe Urbanmech" AKA the Thorbie:

Engine: 90 Light (54km)
Internal Structure: Standard
Jump Jets: 3 (90m)
Heat Sinks: 10 Double
Enhancements: Triple-Strength Myomer

Armour: 7.0 Tons Standard (105 points - overarmoured, natch)
Loadout: ER PPC, Medium Laser, Small Pulse Laser, Beagle Active Probe, ECM Suite
Max Heat: 23
Heat Dissipation: 20

Positive Quirks: Narrow/Low Profile, Reinforced Legs
Negative Quirks: No/Minimal Arms

Cost: 3,401,840 C-Bills
BV: 942

Description: Intended for deployment around important installations and metropolitan areas, the Thorbie gets its nickname from the ER PPC which replaces the classic AC10 - same firepower, better range, no ammo problems. Backing up the PPC is a medium laser for close range poking, a small pulse laser for anti-infantry work, and a BAP and ECM to make it the tiny master of its city maze. Sadly it's over twice the cost of the base UrbanMech, but even Urbie needs to feel pretty now and then, right?

As for the TSM...I couldn't resist the idea of a city filled with lightning-spewing, DFA'ing battle-eggs, preventing invaders from entering their city with the humiliating threat of being kicked to death by trashcans

Clan Warrior: "I'm approaching City Hall now, no sign of defenders."
Control: "Aff. Keep an eye out for hostiles, we've been receiving sporadic report of losses-"
Urbie: *waddle waddle waddle*
Clan Warrior: "I have eyes on hostile! It's...wait, it's an UrbanMech. No worry control, it's disarmed. I can see the smoke from here."
Control: "Be careful, UrbanMech sightings have coincided with disappearances-"
Urbie: *waddle waddle waddle*
Clan Warrior: "Neg control, it's unarmed and...kinda cute. It's approaching. I'm going to offer the pilot amnesty for brav-"
Urbie: *waddle waddle waddlewaddlewaddle*
Clan Warrior: "Uh...control, it's...it's speeding up. It's-"
Control: "Say again?"
Urbie: *waddlewaddlewaddlewaddleKICK!*
Clan Warrior: "MY KNEES OH GOD"
Control: "Say again? I can't...is someone stamping repeatedly on a tin can on your end? Hello? Hello??"

Edited by Rakshasa, 23 January 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Aerik Lornes]

Wintersdark, on 23 January 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:

...

Consider, there's basically 3 groups of players relevant to this discussion:
Group A, the Purists: They want a Tabletop limited Urbanmech, moving at speeds too low to be a viable(and I use that word intentionally) battlefield mech in MWO. This is a small group, relative to:
Group B, the Normal Folk: They want an Urbanmech, want it to resemble an Urbanmech as much as possible, but be at least viable - that is, usable in normal play, even if not a top-tier mech. The vast, vast majority of players will fall here.
Group C, the Comp Crowd: They want an Urbanmech balance with other top tier mechs (basically, on par with the Firestarts, Jenners, and whatnot. Another small group, but present. Ultimately, the likelyhood that an Urbanmech can compete with those mechs and not move at their speed is extremely slim, and they know it, thus this group is tiny.
...

I'm not convinced the majority wanting an Urbanmech can be anything but your Group A. You have no actual data to support the relative sizes of those groups relative to wanting or not wanting an Urbanmech. It's entirely possible that most of the people buying the Urbanmech are your Group A. It's really likely that even wanting an Urbanmech takes you right out of any potential "normal" category.

As for in game performance, a slow light isn't any more a viable mech for most tabletop players that it is for most MWO players. They are used poorly more often than not and that's not going to change in MWO just because it's a video game. It's a niche design that requires either great skill and/or the correct environment to shine (mostly lots of cover and crappy terrain that slows fast mechs down and/or one where c-bills matter).

I won't argue that the current meta in MWO does favor speed, because they only doubled defense while roughly tripling to quadrupling offense, so not being there to be hit is really important, but if you don't want to play the slow ugly duckling, then you probably shouldn't get an Urbanmech anyway. There will almost always be a "more viable" choice than the slowest light mech anyway, so ramping it's speed up to absurd levels for the design isn't helping it, it's just hurting it's flavor while still keeping it at the bottom of the so-called "viable" list.

PGI must believe that the spirit or flavor of mech designs matters, else they could have just given us cool-looking chassis and let us go to town without engine or hardpoint limits. If you want to label going against the spirit and flavor of the game as it's been presented as "hurting fun" then feel free, but I'm not the one who set things up that way, so I'm not the one calling your fun hurting or wrong, the game itself is.

That all said, if they are never going to address the relative scaling of offense to defense and speed will always be the only counter, then sure, ramp up the Urbanmech's speed, but then they might as well open up the design system for all mechs, because it's preserving something the actual play is contradicting. I want to feel like I'm piloting an Urbanmech in the Battletech universe, not something alien to that.

[Roadkill]

Aerik Lornes, on 23 January 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

I'm not convinced the majority wanting an Urbanmech can be anything but your Group A.

I'm Group B. All of my friends are also Group B, though we vary (slightly) in our definition of "viable" in the pug queues. For the most part, we fit right in with what Russ has already said he's leaning toward - an engine cap of 180-215.

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 23 January 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

That was ages upon ages ago, pretty sure whatever notebook I drew it up in is long gone. We just gotta wait for Bishop to dig up his.

had to brain fudge it. Mind you, these are all 1st gen, and 2nd gen rules, they were built (and probably fudged,) under. Definitely "illegal" by todays "perfect .5 ton for everything" rules (*rolls eyes* I miss my .1 ton, .25 ton items). Not even sure if 1 ton vehicles are a thing anymore in newest rule,s or how one would "make it happen". (apparently no hovercycle and such, unless they weighed at least 1 ton, in the future?)

"Blitz" High speed scout:
1 ton
Cockpit/Controls: .05 tons
Internal Structure: .1 ton
Lift Equipment: .1 ton
Lift Factor: 40
Engine: 45 XL .25 tons
Shielding .13 tons
Armor: .25 tons (no turret, 1 pt to front, back and each side)
Sensors: .12 tons

Movement:
Cruise Speed: 85
Flank Speed: 128

128 translates to 1382.4 kph (or 858.47) MPH. Speed of sound, at terran Sea Level: 1236 kph (768 mph)

Designed for scouting enemy lines, it carries no weapons, and just enough armor to deflect small arms fire. It's only real defense is it's speed. Under most operations, it cruises WELL under it limits, and in fact, you have to flip an override to open the governors for full burn. But in any area with enough space, it can, for short periods, outrun anything in common use besides aerospace fighters.

The biggest design flaws being the vehicle is incredibly high maintenance, due to the stresses put on the frame, the heat of it's speed actually warps the armor after a short time, the stupendously expensive XL engine and any collisions at high speed are universally fatal. Thus the top speed is generally meant to be reserved for life and death usage. There is also a rumor that due to the pilot sitting directly on the reactor, that prolonged usage will render the pilot sterile.

Of course, none of this has stopped them from being used as the basis of several racing circuits throughout the IS and Periphery.

Rumors of several bandit caste Clan Aerojocks using modified version with EI control tattoos have also surfaced.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 January 2015 - 11:11 AM.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

had to brain fudge it. Mind you, these are all 1st gen, and 2nd gen rules, they were built (and probably fudged,) under. Definitely "illegal" by todays "perfect .5 ton for everything" rules (*rolls eyes* I miss my .1 ton, .25 ton items). Not even sure if 1 ton vehicles are a thing anymore in newest rule,s or how one would "make it happen". (apparently no hovercycle and such, unless they weighed at least 1 ton, in the future?)

"Blitz" High speed scout:
1 ton
Cockpit/Controls: .05 tons
Internal Structure: .1 ton
Lift Equipment: .1 ton
Lift Factor: 40
Engine: 45 XL .25 tons
Shielding .13 tons
Armor: .25 tons (no turret, 1 pt to front, back and each side)
Sensors: .12 tons

Movement:
Cruise Speed: 85
Flank Speed: 128

Well that's not something you are going to hit, ever.

[Bishop Steiner]

Aerik Lornes, on 23 January 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

I'm not convinced the majority wanting an Urbanmech can be anything but your Group A. You have no actual data to support the relative sizes of those groups relative to wanting or not wanting an Urbanmech. It's entirely possible that most of the people buying the Urbanmech are your Group A. It's really likely that even wanting an Urbanmech takes you right out of any potential "normal" category.

As for in game performance, a slow light isn't any more a viable mech for most tabletop players that it is for most MWO players. They are used poorly more often than not and that's not going to change in MWO just because it's a video game. It's a niche design that requires either great skill and/or the correct environment to shine (mostly lots of cover and crappy terrain that slows fast mechs down and/or one where c-bills matter).

I won't argue that the current meta in MWO does favor speed, because they only doubled defense while roughly tripling to quadrupling offense, so not being there to be hit is really important, but if you don't want to play the slow ugly duckling, then you probably shouldn't get an Urbanmech anyway. There will almost always be a "more viable" choice than the slowest light mech anyway, so ramping it's speed up to absurd levels for the design isn't helping it, it's just hurting it's flavor while still keeping it at the bottom of the so-called "viable" list.

PGI must believe that the spirit or flavor of mech designs matters, else they could have just given us cool-looking chassis and let us go to town without engine or hardpoint limits. If you want to label going against the spirit and flavor of the game as it's been presented as "hurting fun" then feel free, but I'm not the one who set things up that way, so I'm not the one calling your fun hurting or wrong, the game itself is.

That all said, if they are never going to address the relative scaling of offense to defense and speed will always be the only counter, then sure, ramp up the Urbanmech's speed, but then they might as well open up the design system for all mechs, because it's preserving something the actual play is contradicting. I want to feel like I'm piloting an Urbanmech in the Battletech universe, not something alien to that.

and you have any data to support your supposition that it's mostly "Group A"?

The only data I can find on that is the very incomplete picture from forum posts, where there are substantially more people wanting speed urbies and or, moderate spee dones, than the ones howling to go 32 kph.

So basically, until you find data to back your own claims, you are just trolling, with this line of reasoning.

Metus regem, on 23 January 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

Well that's not something you are going to hit, ever.

well it can cover 4 maps segments in 1 turn, lol.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

well it can cover 4 maps segments in 1 turn, lol.

I think they only way you could would for be for it to come to a stop in the hex or surronding hexes the turn an Arrow IV lands...

[Johnny Reb]

Rakshasa, on 23 January 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Reminds me of my design for a "deluxe Urbanmech" AKA the Thorbie:

Engine: 90 Light (54km)
Internal Structure: Standard
Jump Jets: 3 (90m)
Heat Sinks: 10 Double
Enhancements: Triple-Strength Myomer

Armour: 7.0 Tons Standard (105 points - overarmoured, natch)
Loadout: ER PPC, Medium Laser, Small Pulse Laser, Beagle Active Probe, ECM Suite
Max Heat: 23
Heat Dissipation: 20

Positive Quirks: Narrow/Low Profile, Reinforced Legs
Negative Quirks: No/Minimal Arms

Cost: 3,401,840 C-Bills
BV: 942

Description: Intended for deployment around important installations and metropolitan areas, the Thorbie gets its nickname from the ER PPC which replaces the classic AC10 - same firepower, better range, no ammo problems. Backing up the PPC is a medium laser for close range poking, a small pulse laser for anti-infantry work, and a BAP and ECM to make it the tiny master of its city maze. Sadly it's over twice the cost of the base UrbanMech, but even Urbie needs to feel pretty now and then, right?

As for the TSM...I couldn't resist the idea of a city filled with lightning-spewing, DFA'ing battle-eggs, preventing invaders from entering their city with the humiliating threat of being kicked to death by trashcans

Clan Warrior: "I'm approaching City Hall now, no sign of defenders."
Control: "Aff. Keep an eye out for hostiles, we've been receiving sporadic report of losses-"
Urbie: *waddle waddle waddle*
Clan Warrior: "I have eyes on hostile! It's...wait, it's an UrbanMech. No worry control, it's disarmed. I can see the smoke from here."
Control: "Be careful, UrbanMech sightings have coincided with disappearances-"
Urbie: *waddle waddle waddle*
Clan Warrior: "Neg control, it's unarmed and...kinda cute. It's approaching. I'm going to offer the pilot amnesty for brav-"
Urbie: *waddle waddle waddlewaddlewaddle*
Clan Warrior: "Uh...control, it's...it's speeding up. It's-"
Control: "Say again?"
Urbie: *waddlewaddlewaddlewaddleKICK!*
Clan Warrior: "MY KNEES OH GOD"
Control: "Say again? I can't...is someone stamping repeatedly on a tin can on your end? Hello? Hello??"

Deputy Dawg right there!

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

AND bought. collectors edition. Hey bishop what is the percentage now. I don't do the facebook thing.

[IraqiWalker]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 23 January 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

AND bought. collectors edition. Hey bishop what is the percentage now. I don't do the facebook thing.

Last I checked on Russ' tweets, is that it is REALLY close to being done.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 23 January 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

AND bought. collectors edition. Hey bishop what is the percentage now. I don't do the facebook thing.

been over 24 hours without a sitrep. Asked Russ a bit ago, he may or may not get back to me. My expectation is that by Saturday Noon, we will have hit goal. If we haven't I actually would worry that we will. This, was always going to be a very front loaded sale, IMO.

And while I am excited it looks like it will be a reality, I bet it would have sold twice as many back in 1012, early 2013, before 3PVGate, etc. A lot of the CB and missing Founders were the target audience for Urbie.

And reality is, unless it somehow comes out the "meta" Mech, it is not a mech that will have a huge amount of residual sales. Most "Battletech Diehards" already know the game, and either play it, or have left. Most non die hards, will simply never "get" it. So I fully understand Russ outlook on the presale, because let's face it, it might as well be a limited run, and then stop production. I don't foresee heavy volume past the intro.

Only time I really expect to see them move again would be a possible Hero mech.

[Cementi]

Officially picked up mine, decided to go for the gusto and get the collectors. Hoping the mech has the trash talk that is featured in the concept art painted on it for the hero mech.

[Brody319]

IraqiWalker, on 23 January 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

Last I checked on Russ' tweets, is that it is REALLY close to being done.

I imagine once the give away happens we will reach the goal, because some people are waiting to see if they get one for free before they buy it.

[Cementi]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

been over 24 hours without a sitrep. Asked Russ a bit ago, he may or may not get back to me. My expectation is that by Saturday Noon, we will have hit goal. If we haven't I actually would worry that we will. This, was always going to be a very front loaded sale, IMO.

And while I am excited it looks like it will be a reality, I bet it would have sold twice as many back in 1012, early 2013, before 3PVGate, etc. A lot of the CB and missing Founders were the target audience for Urbie.

And reality is, unless it somehow comes out the "meta" Mech, it is not a mech that will have a huge amount of residual sales. Most "Battletech Diehards" already know the game, and either play it, or have left. Most non die hards, will simply never "get" it. So I fully understand Russ outlook on the presale, because let's face it, it might as well be a limited run, and then stop production. I don't foresee heavy volume past the intro.

Only time I really expect to see them move again would be a possible Hero mech.

I can see your points however there is no reason they cannot make the mech competitive. It does not have to be meta to be used.