121 replies to this topic

[Agent 0 Fortune]

FupDup, on 26 January 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Again, if you see two enemy mechs, a Vindicator and a Dire Wolf, which one will be prioritized most of the time?

I target the most damaged, if I don't have that information I go for the easiest kill, the Vindicator, where my shots do the most damage.
On the rare occasion I am on a group drop, I target the primary when not free firing.

FupDup, on 26 January 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

The loadouts that have good DPS are going to be SPL ones the vast majority of the time, which again restricts them by range.

Range is relative. To a direwolf 600m may as well be a mile, to a 170kph firestarter with jump jets and cover, it is approximately 20 heat points of cooling before a 64 damage strafing run, and on to another 20 cooling and more terrain.

FupDup, on 26 January 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Depends on who's in the light and what the circumstances are. They're not posting the best numbers every match, unless they just so happen to be super duper good at their job.

By the way, do you want to do that private match challenge of mine where I get to drive my Warhawk and you get to choose any light of your choice?

Sorry not interested, I am not a twitch-player, and actually get nauseous when speculating light mechs. I tend to run medium mechs, slow medium mechs so I am pretty reliant on teamwork to get anywhere.
Which is why it bugs me when we (as a lance) drop a direwolf in 6 seconds, while a single firestarter can survive twice as long while being focused.

[Zordicron]

Artgathan, on 26 January 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

Are you trying to suggest that people don't play light mechs because they (light mechs) are too powerful? Because we had a case study in that when the Raven was released. It was brokenly OP at the time and everyone played one. People generally don't avoid things because the thing is 'too good'. Yes, there will always be a few special snowflakes who insist on going against the grain, but there's a reason why the automobile came to dominate over the horse as a form of transportation.

I did not buy a Raven until about 5 months before the Huggin was released. Your argument is flawed logic at best, and largely based on pure speculation.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Nah, you just missed or forgot the period during the Beta when a large portion of the playerbase ran Raven 3Ls because Streaks were great and ECM was completely broken.

Long, long ago when the Raven first appeared, it so happened that like Artgathan said that the "average" or "common" light pilot switched to using the Raven 3L because it was for a time a rather broken/OP mech.

That's not to say people don't still use Ravens or that no one has bought them later, but during the aforementioned period of time you saw a massive shift of the playerbase towards using Ravens.

Another great example would be the Streakcat, doubtlessly people still buy and/or use Catapults, but if you examine when the greatest number of Streak carrying catapults were on the field, you would find it was when the Streakcat was in its prime.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 26 January 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Eboli]

Artgathan, on 26 January 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

Are you trying to suggest that people don't play light mechs because they (light mechs) are too powerful? Because we had a case study in that when the Raven was released. It was brokenly OP at the time and everyone played one. People generally don't avoid things because the thing is 'too good'. Yes, there will always be a few special snowflakes who insist on going against the grain, but there's a reason why the automobile came to dominate over the horse as a form of transportation.

I must be a special snowflake as I absolutely refuse to play a Firestarter for the very reason that there IS something wrong with them. I have done thousands of drops in lights (Jenner in particular) and I am sure I could do quite well in them.

Firestarters can be taken out fairly quickly if you aim for their legs but if pilots don't then FS's seriously take much longer to kill by focus fire than a mech really should. People who deny this are just kidding themselves.

Cheers!
Eboli

[FupDup]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 26 January 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

I target the most damaged, if I don't have that information I go for the easiest kill, the Vindicator, where my shots do the most damage.
On the rare occasion I am on a group drop, I target the primary when not free firing.

I've seen many a gunboats eat up my teammates when left unchecked, so I'll just have to disagree with that. If you let something like a 2 ERPPC + 2 Gauss or 6 UAC/5 Whale do its thing, it's gonna devour people on your team real fast.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 26 January 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

Range is relative. To a direwolf 600m may as well be a mile, to a 170kph firestarter with jump jets and cover, it is approximately 20 heat points of cooling before a 64 damage strafing run, and on to another 20 cooling and more terrain.

Firestarters don't go 170 brah. They top out at 150.2.

Fast robots have an easier time managing short-ranged guns than slower robots, but short range is still short range. In this case, the IS SPL has an optimal range of 110 meters without module. If they're in range of the enemy, the enemy is in range of them as well.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 26 January 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

Sorry not interested, I am not a twitch-player, and actually get nauseous when speculating light mechs. I tend to run medium mechs, slow medium mechs so I am pretty reliant on teamwork to get anywhere.
Which is why it bugs me when we (as a lance) drop a direwolf in 6 seconds, while a single firestarter can survive twice as long while being focused.

That's a bit of a cop-out. If you're so confident that lights are magically OP, you should be able to mount up in one and prove it consistently. I try to hold myself to the standard that I need to personally be able to wreck people's faces with relatively low effort for me to consider it OP. If I can't fulfill that requirement, I don't believe I have the "right" to call it OP. I hold my fellow Forumwarriors™ to the same standard.

[Grimmjow]

Well who wants to play a light when they cost more to build all things considered then a ******* awesome bruiser heavy. hell even clan mechs aren't that bad compared to buying a light an xl engine all the upgrades and etc.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

FupDup, on 26 January 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

That's a bit of a cop-out. If you're so confident that lights are magically OP, you should be able to mount up in one and prove it consistently. I try to hold myself to the standard that I need to personally be able to wreck people's faces with relatively low effort for me to consider it OP. If I can't fulfill that requirement, I don't believe I have the "right" to call it OP. I hold my fellow Forumwarriors™ to the same standard.

Maybe you are right, I am certainly not as good with lights as other weight classes, but if I am correct, then I should wreck-house in my light Elo bracket. I think I will spec out a firestarter, and put some proof in the puddin.
And if it pans out I'll revisit your offer.

[FupDup]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 26 January 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

Maybe you are right, I am certainly not as good with lights as other weight classes, but if I am correct, then I should wreck-house in my light Elo bracket. I think I will spec out a firestarter, and put some proof in the puddin.
And if it pans out I'll revisit your offer.

Also note that the results need to be "consistent," so posting a few end of match scoreboards doesn't qualify. You have to count both the good and the bad matches to avoid confirmation bias. Get them grinded to at least master (more matches reduces deviation and stabilizes the stats) and see how your W/L K/D etc. are, and compare those to your other mechs to see how they stack up.

[Ultimax]

Eboli, on 26 January 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

Firestarters can be taken out fairly quickly if you aim for their legs but if pilots don't then FS's seriously take much longer to kill by focus fire than a mech really should. People who deny this are just kidding themselves.

Translation: Derps gonna derp.


Don't be a derp, sweep the legs.

FupDup, on 26 January 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

I try to hold myself to the standard that I need to personally be able to wreck people's faces with relatively low effort for me to consider it OP. If I can't fulfill that requirement, I don't believe I have the "right" to call it OP. I hold my fellow Forumwarriors™ to the same standard.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 26 January 2015 - 10:16 PM.

[Kilo 40]

I would love for some lights only matches. or maybe mediums and lights only.

[Taemien]

The True Space Pope, on 26 January 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

Nah, if they were "broken and overpowered" more people would play them, not less.

The "average" player in MWO has always gravitated towards whatever mech or build he or she believes to be the most "broken or overpowered" this week, month or year.

Claiming anything else is frankly dishonest.

The average player in MW2, MW3, and MW4 did this too.

In MW2 and MW3 it was all ER Small Laser boats and ER Medium Laser boats. You hardly saw much else. MW3 did slightly better with AC20 boats and the occasional Flamer boat. But rarely did you see any mixed weapon builds.

MW4 was a little more interesting due to the hardpoint system. But you did see an incredible amount of 6 ER Large Laser Madcats. It wasn't so much as an effective mech and loadout as the MC was so wide that it could be cored easily from a side critical. But because of the 3rd person hill exploit.

Most of your competitive players back then exploited this. I tried hard to get all of the leagues I played in to suspend 3rd person view because of it, but the swarm of rabid protesters showed just how much they relied on such ability to stay competitive.

I've got some good memories of MechWarrior in the past. But also alot of bad ones from some really crappy players... many of which have come to MWO as well. Thankfully many of the exploits are minimal here and come with swift punishment from PGI if caught. On NetMech, Mplayer, and MS Zone we weren't so fortunate.

But yeah.. for the last two decades.. MW players have always gravitated to the most percieved broken/overpowered thing they can get their hands on. I think the only reason Firestarters aren't used so much is because of either the legs are easily taken out, or those players realize those hit boxes are on the chopping block. Mech itself seems fine.. but nailing it Center Mass with lasers with only a scratch to show for it seems sketchy at best (even had two spectating teammates confirm the shots fully hit CT but did nothing).

[waterfowl]

you must be new here. The last few months were a fluke, with their high light percentages.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I bought and FS9-H to learn the ropes, not having any skill unlocks is definitely noticeable vs. other lights so I have to be careful about duels, but I did have manage to overheat and shutdown between an Atlas, Hunchback, and Timberwolf, and survive (lost and arm along with half my firepower, but came back and got the atlas).
Biggest challenge right now is practicing aim, and keeping arm and torso weapons on target at 130+ kph.

[ibex230]

Lights require another skill set and many mediocre players will shy away from it's gameplay.

[STEF_]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 January 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

Got up to 13% while I was grinding my Commandos. I will go on record that the Light Mech invulnerability appears to be a Myth to my experience.

JENNER-D(Archive) 31 9 22 0.41 2 24 0.08 3,169 14,168 02:04:01
JENNER JR7-D 13 4 9 0.44 1 13 0.08 403 4,143 00:33:11
COMMANDO-2D 5 2 3 0.67 0 4 0.00 496 2,310 00:28:55
COMMANDO-3A 3 1 2 0.50 0 3 0.00 89 1,025 00:16:18
COMMANDO-1D 32 11 19 0.58 0 27 0.00 1,023 11,740 02:52:59
RAVEN 3L(Archive) 13 4 9 0.44 4 11 0.36 3,051 5,528 00:52:32
SPIDER-5D(Archive) 1 1 0 1.00 0 0 0.00 22 311 00:06:39
SPIDER -5K(Archive) 4 2 2 1.00 1 4 0.25 152 1,293 00:10:53

Combined
Matches;102
Wins: 33
Losses; 66
ERA: 0.323
Kills;8
Deaths: 86

By right My record in lights should have me in the, How is that said, "Underhive Steering Wheel" league when PUGging. I'm not.

Joseph, stats are very important to understand what's wrong.
For istance, first thing I thought was: "Joe, are you firing?"

[Mawai]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 26 January 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

It sounds like you are attempting to attribute the fact that light mechs are almost always the last man standing with the highest damage and score to "being ignored"?

That is a ridiculous assumption. Most of the time they are priority targets because they have such a high DPS and Alpha, and will wreck you backfiled if ignored, plus they have thin armor when they don't don't completely ignore weapons fire.

If you tell me that lights aren't posting the best numbers in matches, I'll just call it an Elo isolated phenomenon and move on.

In the hands of equally skilled pilots ... looking at a heavy or medium vs light match up ... the light will usually lose.

Also, in the games I play (my Elo bracket), although a good light performance is common ... they are typically not at the top of the scoreboard (except for games where we lose and a sniper Raven-3L has been hiding while spreading damage around and finishing off targets).

In most of the games I play ... light mechs are priority targets of opportunity but not the target of a squirrel hunt. When folks run off to chase a light someone usually reminds them of how stupid it is to have a lance of our mechs chasing one of theirs ... as long as that chase persists the side doing the chasing is at a tactical disadvantage everywhere else on the field.

Finally, lights that too often skirmish against multiple opponents will die since someone will have a decent angle for a shot and they will lose a leg or torso (everyone should realize by now that legs are priority aim points on light mechs).

[TexAce]

Techorse, on 26 January 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

- Streaktaro with pilot on red bull

Haha thats me. I'm like a batshit crazy gorilla on a caffeine shock when playing my Kints

Edited by TexAss, 27 January 2015 - 05:37 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Stefka Kerensky, on 26 January 2015 - 11:53 PM, said:

Joseph, stats are very important to understand what's wrong.
For istance, first thing I thought was: "Joe, are you firing?"

Once I find enemies yes. They are just firing harder than MY 1-2 Mediums do.

[Xetelian]

KodiakGW, on 26 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

. When MM puts me on the "winning" team, teammates notice what I'm doing and move in to kill the ones I draw. When I've been put on the "losing" team, they like sitting still and let themselves get surrounded and pounded.

This is exactly what happens every game. Winning team drop we out position and roll the enemy team, loser drop and I'll be one of the last to die but not for lack of trying.

[Linkin]

Techorse, on 26 January 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Simply put, lights are a high risk, high reward Choose Your Own Adventure, where one bad choice means death, typically for a pants-on-head stupid reason.

List of reasons:
- Game lags out
- Twin Gauss
- Boomjager
- Doomjager (Also Twingauss)
- AVG AntiLight 2015 (Streakcrow)
- Streaktaro with pilot on red bull
- PPC Spam
- That One Guy Who Always Spots Your UAV And Kills It Instantly Making You Want To Punch Him In The Dong

However, if you DO make good choices, and if your enemies DO get distracted by your friends, you can:

- Backstab like crazy
- Scratch away at armor and components indefinitely with ER Larges
- Fling PPC's at people (ECM Spider)
- Give everyone a free NARC (and a puppy)
- TAG things for more C-Bills
- Get a large amount of XP from a good UAV drop

For a lot of people in games, high-risk, high-reward just isn't worth it. But right now, if you drop in a hero light, you will find matches quickly and rake in the c-bills.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I love piloting my lights, but I do so knowing if I get sloppy, that mistake won't so easily be forgiven.

Also- AVG antilight 2015 and streaktaro pilot on redbull almost made me spit out my drink from laughing, well played.