233 replies to this topic

[IMTatsu]

There's been considerable activity in other forums, so I thought I'd bring it here.

From the beginning of time, in as much as it relates to us here, we have followed the Honor Code of mech combat, primarily defined as:
1. No Heading
2. No Legging
3. No Unnecessary Beatdown of an Incapacitated Foe.

With the potential massive influx of the new 'Pepsi Generation', they're understanding is 'Play to Win'. Every rule of warfare they've ever been subjected to up to this point is 'By Any Means Necessary'

Battletech purists would argue that the most effective method of mech combat completely contradicts the Honor Code we have traditionally clung to. If the game employs salvage rules, this is going to be an even more important topic.

Here it is gang. What do you think?

[Landeraxe]

I think that in warfare, with your life on line, you fight to win by any means allowable in game (no hacks, cheats, or even in-game glitches, because there is a difference between fighting "honorably", and cheating).

For one-on-one combat, if both sides agree to fight honorably, then that is different.

[Amberlance]

War is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. War is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one faction overthrows another.

[Rorusbass]

Let's just keep it at: there's a reason it's a japanese word.

[Fyad]

Any army which does not train to use all the weapons, all the means and methods of warfare that the enemy possesses, or may possess, is behaving in an unwise or even criminal manner. This applies to politics even more than it does to the art of war.

[Adridos]

You're talking of it as a basic principle of battle you either follow or don't.

But it's not like that. There are many types of battles and for each one, different approach is required.

For instance, if I play a friendly match and we agree on not doing it, I won't do it, because we agreed on it.
But then there's other way. The battle plays out and someone on my side is getting attacked. If only way to do so is to leg the opponent, I won't hesitate. If I want to show Clans who is the boss around here, I will follow their rules and so on...

One can't simply tell: "I will/won't fight by the code", and then do so just like that.

[Vandal]

Adridos, on 29 June 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

One can't simply tell: "I will/won't fight by the code", and then do so just like that.

Actually, It's really simple, Small Comrade Adridos! Just say 'AahahahaahahahahaahahaAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Naw not doing that. Haha.' and then leg everybody!

Easy as pie.

Edited by Vandal, 29 June 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[AceTimberwolf]

If you are going to Role Play leave the "Bushido" Code of Honor to the Kuritans and the Combine. House Liao and the rest of the Capellans have no honor. By being of House Liao You are allowed to use every underhanded Tactic in the book

[Slapshot]

AceTimberwolf, on 29 June 2012 - 07:55 AM, said:

If you are going to Role Play leave the "Bushido" Code of Honor to the Kuritans and the Combine. House Liao and the rest of the Capellans have no honor. By being of House Liao You are allowed to use every underhanded Tactic in the book

Yeah I was going to say, since when do Capellan's care about honor?

[Chemosh]

Honestly: Bushido isn´t really applicable to Mech fights... I mean I can get behind "don´t kick him when he´s down", but the first two are just not realistic.

What's a light Mech to do in a fight against a heavy Mech? aim its pea-shooters at the thickest part of the wall of steel in front of it and hope the enemy is so visually impaired he won´t hit a single shot?

The only feasible chance it has is to aim at the weakpoints, which are legs, arms and head and you wanna forbid it from using most of its potential?

[NWHHarrier]

The question reminds me of an episode of HBO's adaptation of game of thrones, where Tyrion's lannister's bodyguard Bronn fights another champion on his behalf. Bronn refused to fight on the knight's terms, dodging blows, striking back rarely, before a final struggle in which he throws the knight to his death down a hole in the floor. Bronn is then told by the territory's ruler that he fights with no honor. Bronn replies, glancing at the hole saying, "no...he did."

Be like Bronn! Nerdiest post ever?

[BOLO COMBAT UNIT NIGHTSTALKER]

I HOPE EVERYONE FOLLOWS THIS HONOR THING,I WILL BE THE ONLY ONE LEFT WITH LEGS


TADA!

[Amberlance]

BOLO COMBAT UNIT NIGHTSTALKER, on 29 June 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

LEG THEM ALL,LET GOD SORT THEM OUT

Edited by Amberlance, 29 June 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[Adridos]

Vandal, on 29 June 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

Actually, It's really simple, Small Comrade Adridos! Just say 'AahahahaahahahahaahahaAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Naw not doing that. Haha.' and then leg everybody!

Easy as pie.

I wonder if you did the same if some of your friends asked you for a duel without that... you know, leg him, over heat him with flamers and then practice some dirty things while he can't do anything, since it's his only mech, for example.

[Wind Tempest]

Back in MW4 Mercs I used flamers to shut down mechs so I can slap a few artillery beacons on them and watch them panic and try to escape certain death.

Is this honorable? I don't know lets ask the guys 10 kilometers away who fired the shot.

[Two Beans]

I follow the code of Australian-rules Bushido. *kicks a bowing person in the grunies*

[wanderer]

IMTatsu, on 29 June 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

Here it is gang. What do you think?

We need a "headshot kill" icon. It's going to happen, lots and lots considering LRM's seem to rain down from a near vertical angle- and...well, the head happens to be up there, with it's light armor and all that. Likewise, the easiest way to deal with light 'Mechs is probably going to be legging them while they zip over the field at 100+kph, from the look of the Frozen City video.

Shooting up a downed target, though- that's just kicking someone while they're out of the match entirely. Only reason to do it is if you hate their guts to begin with.

Edited by wanderer, 29 June 2012 - 09:41 AM.

[IMTatsu]

By the responses, it's become apparent how many played Solaris. But, then again, that was Solaris the game-world. Please, nobody take that as an insult or a personal slight, I assure I don't mean it in that context. It's been 10 years, and there are ALOT of new faces now, and a new landscape.

Are us old-timers just antiquated in the thinking that this is how it should or could be done now?

The conversation is good. There's alot more of you out there to be heard from.

On a side note, I find it amusing that the snake-lovers have to meander their way here to be heard. They don't allow freedom of speech over there? The FWL'er I understand. There's nobody to talk to over there. . .

>:{

[Camembert]

IMTatsu, on 29 June 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

From the beginning of time, in as much as it relates to us here, we have followed the Honor Code of mech combat, primarily defined as:
1. No Heading
2. No Legging
3. No Unnecessary Beatdown of an Incapacitated Foe.

All this dates back to the old Mechwarrior days when legging/heading was strong enough to be the only viable strategy if you had the aim to pull it off. Stats were usually based off of the board game without taking aim into account. Some objected because that didn't fit with the Battletech feel (since weapons can't be aimed that accurately in the board game). Some objected because they were (and are) whiny scrubs with poor aim who refuse to believe that their EPIC SKILLS can be beaten without CHEATING. Neither option is valid today. Designers are accounting for the former, and the latter was never valid to begin with.

In other words, any such honor code is profoundly laughable.

Oh, and calling it Bushido or space-Bushido is also laughable from a historical perspective. The Japanese came up with iaijutsu for a reason; the western concept of "fair fight" didn't exist for them.

Edited by Camembert, 29 June 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[Balls of Steele]

“This isn’t dueling pistols at dawn, this is war. You never wanna fight fair. You wanna sneak up behind your enemy and club him over the head.”

- Kara "Starbuck" Thrace

We're fighting within a civilisation that had no qualms about glassing entire planets, I doubt anyone will call foul for legging or heading.