67 replies to this topic

[HARDKOR]

TheArisen, on 13 February 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

If only it would of been that simple. He was trying to kill the whole team. No one said anything to him. I suppose I could have just let him shoot me and everyone else on the team.

Does no one have a better idea?

Yeah, tell the other team you are dealing with a TK, strip him, report him, move on with your life. He should be easy to strip because it's probably a stock nova, as those guys tend to drive trial mechs as they know they will be banned on monday.

[Kodyn]

If they ever do anything about TKing in this game, there will be no Dire Fail pilots..

There's a weekend event involving kills, assists, points, or a win? "Ok, lemme just shoot through my team as if they aren't there.."

Just a regular day, regular match? "Oh look, I'm at the back of my team, and they're being engaged by the enemy up front, I better shoot through the entire friendly team just to make sure some rounds go near the opponent..."

I don't even bother to report anymore, I just see Dire Fails and assume the pilot either sucks or just doesn't give a **** about anything, so I avoid them..and still usually get back-shot anyway, because they're Dire Fail pilots, and FF is their default mode.

[krash27]

Smith Gibson, on 14 February 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

I'm looking for the short term banning or whatever penalty to be an automatic process handled by the server. Then I want a list of names of those that have been perma banned. That way the troll gets punished even if nobody cared enough to report him. Sure the ****** can just make a new account, but that is not the real objective here. the real objective is to convince the player base that something is actually being done about it. I have never heard of anyone actually being banned. I've only heard stories of a dozen people reporting someone for TKing multiple times, and the TKer is still playing weeks later.

As it is now, I don't care to report TKers because I don't believe PGI will actually do anything about it.

Name and shame is against the policy to start with and they have stated that it is final. I am not sure I have heard of any game that would actually stoop to naming and shaming.
IF they set a precedence of naming and shaming for TKers it will escalate from there into other aspects.
Do you really think a TKer that is out to grief would really care about a short term ban and their name being posted?
They would look at it as success and a badge of honor.
I wouldn't be surprised if you saw people make alt accounts to try and be the best TKer/griefer out there.

You would be back here in a few weeks raging that it didn't work.
Not to mention all the people that accidentally alpha striked someone getting hunted.
Good luck convincing PGI to go against their own EULA by naming and shaming.

Edited by krash27, 14 February 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[Variant1]

The current system we have is fine. Simply report the team killer and the rest will be done. What does need to be changed is adding a blue reticle flash when shooting teammates that way you'll know if you hit a teammate by accident. Also a team damage counter at the end of the game similar to the damage done score board would be nice. Pretty sure this thread has been answered with a majority vote for no.

Also world of tanks is a different game then Mechwarrior, it has its own way of dealing with tkers. But in my opinion i didn't like world of tanks.

[LordNothing]

the obvious solution is to cripple the tker. dont kill him. shoot off his arms and a leg and anything else that wont kill him, then leave him to the enemy. killing them would be a point penalty, and most players accept this and take em out. but i think it even more fitting just to leave em for dead.

you could come up with an algorithm to detect intentional tking. accidental tks are very rare, i think i have done 2 since i started playing. so someone who gets two tks in a match is either very stupid or a blatant troll. someone who tks every day is an obvious troll. then you have other information, such as reports of tking filed by other players. so the game has plenty of information about how trollish a player is. then the weight of punishment could then be proportional to how bad the tker is.

how to punish a team killer: fines. take away their cbills. if they dont have any, put them in cbill debt. they cant buy any new stuff till they make their stash positive. lock down mc purchases while they are in cbill debt so that it doesnt become pay to troll.

fines start small, say 10k cbills for the first offense, then go up exponentially with each repeated offense. 10k is nothing, so if you mess up once, no biggie, you get a warning and a fine. fine level is persistent so if you get a tk in one game, then tk in another, you end up paying 30k total (10k+20k), do it again and that goes up to 70k total(10k+20k+40k). every week or so you forgive an offense, to drop the tk counter by one. repeat offenders end up in debt a million cbills and have to play nice to buy anything. an accidental or a retaliatory killer gets fined once, and because they are good players their fines are forgiven very quickly and their counter goes back to 0 after about a week.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

So fight fire with fire?
I'm gonna say no. Accidents happen and those who "accidentally" TK'd will get punished. Maybe if they TK more than once or if they TK with no enemies in sight/radar

[MoonUnitBeta]

TheArisen, on 13 February 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Simply, if someone TKs they should count as an enemy to all, similar to WoT. I killed a TK'er and was penalized for it as if I was the problem.

That sounds correct.
The game kinda goes like this: You kill your teammate, you get penalized for it.
It's a pretty simply rule.
There's another simple rule that exists as well though. It goes something like this:
Take a screenshot, and send it to support@mwomercs.com

In most cases, we rely on the human aspect to take care of those issues. A game will not know the difference between killing a teammate, and avenging a team kill. Computer games on based on rules. So before you spout off asking for rewards to killing teammates, think about the set of rules that needs to be in place in order to distinguish an avenging kill from a grieving kill.

If you're doing it right, you will have to make a completely new thread with about 60 bullet points of if's and but's. Time limits, damage dealt, and tags. You literally have to tell the computer what makes a team-kill "OK".

And you know, buy the time you tell the computer what makes it OK, you have to now tell the entire player based under what circumstances make it OK.
And then you will need to solve allllllll the problems that WILL come when you get a bunch of angry people screaming at you saying that they killed a team mate for grieving, but they still were penalized. So.. yeah. have fun trying to sort that out.

The easiest way, is to penalize team damage dealt after a certain amount of damage, and implement an in-game report button that's usable after a team kill.

Never let players sort out issues on their own in-game, with the game. Because I bet you, you accidently rake a teammate who'se CT is a cherry, and kill him by accident, you can bet that your entire team will turn around and seek out that reward. Even moreso if you wrap it in an achievement, "Avenge 50 team kills and get the Captain America title."

[LordNothing]

this is pretty much the same thing i posted above but with math. it occured to me you dont really need to differentiate between accidental and intentional. you can but thats just a system to exploit. instead punish the frequent offenders while forgiving infrequent accidental occurrences.

i lack the vocab to put it in words, but i know math. here are some variables:

tkP or team kill points. the number of currently unforgiven team kills. this is persistent per player.
iT or interval of time. we forgive one tk at this interval. constant. for example 1 week.
fM of minimum fine. this is an arbitrary number of cbill you pay for your first offense. constant. for example 10000.

each time you get a tk, you pay fine cbills and tkP goes up:

fine = fM * 2^tkP
tkP = tkP + 1


every iT you decrease tkP until it reaches zero:

if tkP > 0 then tkP = tkP - 1 endif


so what happens if you accidently get a team kill, you punish a team killer, you are a first offender? you pay a small fine of fM. this fine is small and likely less than your winnings from the match. if you dont do this again before iT, then you are forgiven this offense, and if you do it again you pay the same small fine next time. if you tk before iT is up, you pay a slightly larger fine.

so what happens if you kill your lance on purpose? you pay 3 fines, each time increasing tkP. with each kill your fine doubles from the previous one. you pay fM*1 + fM*2 + fM*4. afterword it will take 3*iT for tkP to reach zero. your fine is more significant, and because it keeps going up you are encouraged to stop. (it also teaches really bad players to work on their aim)

so what if you do that a lot? penalties are exponential, so if you do 10 team kills between forgiveness intervals, and fM = 10k, then you pay 10,240,000 cbills! it will also take you 10 iTs to return tkP to 0, if iTs are weeks, then that is 2 and a half months of being good to go back to normal.

what happens if you dont have that many cbills? you go negative, your mechs and equipment are mothballed until you pay your debt (which you have to do with trial mechs, possibly with a skin that puts the phrase "i am a team killer" across your torso). you are also not allowed to make any any in-game purchases, so no buying cbills with mc to get out of it. you would be allowed to buy other things with mc or buy packages, but those would be mothballed until you pony up.

so intentional tkers are dirt poor, and accidental tkers barely notice their fines.