22 replies to this topic

[Sereglach]

Although I think the quirks look amazing overall (currently patching at the moment, so I haven't gotten to play, yet), I'm admittedly saddened that the Firestarter, which is built and meant to carry Flamers, have 0 flamer quirks among their variants. Furthermore, it's mildly disappointing (if not sadly expected) that there are 0 flamer quirks across any mechs.

Even some more generic heat generation quirks across some of the variants would have done a great deal for this. For example, it would have been nice to see heat generation as a quirk for the FS9-K instead of just SL/Energy range.

I know this is a first quirk pass, and we'll be seeing changes in the future, so I'll keep my fingers crossed, mainly due to the fact that it's been apparently said by Russ that Flamers will not be seeing (sadly) their re-engineering until after CW Phase II releases.

Oh well . . . in the meantime I shall continue to push forward, using the under-loved weapon that I cherish so much. Hopefully one day they'll be a formidable piece of support equipment.

[ShinVector]

Quirks where meant to make more IS mech competitive.
Flamers don't make mechs competitive.

[Ghostbear Gurdel]

I agree, at least ONE of the Firestarter Chassis should have Flamer based Quirks....

[Sereglach]

ShinVector, on 04 November 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

Quirks where meant to make more IS mech competitive.
Flamers don't make mechs competitive.

That's one reason why I mention the fact that I am hoping that they'll receive another pass after Flamers are re-engineered. That is slated to happen after CW Phase II is released (which, from the Dev Vlog, is coming along nicely).

On the other hand, that's also why I mention that some more generic heat generation quirks across the board would have helped with this. For example, the Firestarter K (using it since it only has one quirk) only has 15% generic energy range and small laser range, each. If that had been changed to small laser heat gen and generic heat gen, then at least flamers would be a bit more viable on the variant.

It'd at least be some more of a lore based nod at the purpose of the Firestarter chassis.

[ShinVector]

Sereglach, on 04 November 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

It'd at least be some more of a lore based nod at the purpose of the Firestarter chassis.

Why must it be limited to FireStarters ?
Why must Flamers be limited to cause 90% heat and itself have ghost heat ?

Just stating that you might be barking up the wrong tree. Some weapons (especially weak ones) had been over nerfed in a strange way by Mr. P.

Edited by ShinVector, 04 November 2014 - 11:55 PM.

[Sereglach]

ShinVector, on 04 November 2014 - 11:54 PM, said:

Why must it be limited to FireStarters ?
Why must Flamers be limited to cause 90% heat and itself have ghost heat ?

Just stating that you might be barking up the wrong tree. Some weapons (especially weak ones) had been over nerfed in a strange way by Mr. P.

Well, for one, to quote myself:

Quote

Furthermore, it's mildly disappointing (if not sadly expected) that there are 0 flamer quirks across any mechs.

and . . .

Quote

I know this is a first quirk pass, and we'll be seeing changes in the future, so I'll keep my fingers crossed, mainly due to the fact that it's been apparently said by Russ that Flamers will not be seeing (sadly) their re-engineering until after CW Phase II releases.

So, that being said, I never isolated my statements exclusively to Firestarters, although admittedly they are the primary focus. Also, I realize that the Flamer has been horribly mauled by the Nerf Bat way back in the day, and attempts to re-engineer it haven't gone over so well (just read the article in my signature . . . even if it's old, it still very much applies). That's why I explicitly state that I hope we'll see some Flamer quirks show up after the weapon receives the love it deserves by the engineering department.

When that happens, I would LOVE to see flamer quirks across several variants that use Flamers in stock loadouts. The Blackjack 1X is a prime example along with the Thunderbolt 9S, which both use multiple flamers, and there are several others that only use one flamer (but some of those are light mechs, so the minimal payload is not surprising).

[Runenstahl]

Flamers right now are pretty much useless. They are ONLY used by people who like the effect. Like myself

Flamer stats in words:
- extremely short range
- low damage
- some heat for the enemy but it's not possible to force him to overheat
- much more heat for yourself, no matter how many heat sinks you equip
- the flamestream blocking your view makes it impossible to try to hit the head even at the very close range you can use it

To put it another way... introducing flamer quirks to the Firestarter will NOT unbalance anything at all (even if they get +10 % range, and +10% damage and -10 % heat !). So... why not give this mech some quirks that fit it's design ?

[Cyborne Elemental]

I would rather see flamers get a fix in general, instead of only seeing them useful on a single quirked mech.

First make them useful, then figure out what little bonuses to give the FS that have them in stock loadouts.

[imadoctor009]

I agree that the firestarter should get at least some flamer quirks. The way i look at flamers atm is that they are somewhat like the energy version of machineguns. Flamers only do slightly less damage than machineguns and their "optimal range" is also less but similar. Unfortunatly, they don't extend past their optimal range of a mere 90m and it makes them very dangerous to use because you literally have to be in your opponents face to reach them. Also, as everyone knows, flamers are hot to use, and when fired for a long period of time will generate heat exponentially. This wouldnt be too much of a problem except the fact that it also takes a decent amount of time to cool down the flamers back to a point where the heat rate per second is resonable again. Because of this, it makes flamers hard to build around and using flamers as a primary weapon is pretty much suicide. Even trying to build around flamers is difficult due to their heat problems.
I think in order to attempt to balance out flamers and make them a more attractive alternate to your standard med laser or close quarters small pulse laser is PGI might try giving flamers double their range past optimal like most weapons making them not quite so...suicidal. I'm a bit unsure how longer the flames would look graphicly, but im sure everyone would love waving them around ! In addition, rather than lowering the heat generated while firing flamers, I might suggest lowering the amount of time it takes for the flamers themselves to cooldown, this would make managing flamer heat alot easier. Either that or give the player some sort of indicator to let the player know how hot each flamer is so we can make better desicion when to use them. For example, since flamers have no cooldown, use the cooldown bar for flamers on the weapons list in the HUD to show how hot or cool each flamer is.
That is my veiw on flamers at the moment and I hope some change can come to both flamers and the firestarter's quirks to help make flamers a bit more balanced

[El Bandito]

New Firestarter flamer quirks.

1. 100% more range.

2. 0 heat. Z.E.R.O.

3. 200% more blinding effect.

[Weeny Machine]

At least 1 build should have flamer quirks - potent ones. After all the mech was actually designed for it.

ShinVector, on 04 November 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

Quirks where meant to make more IS mech competitive.
Flamers don't make mechs competitive.

True. However, it is also about diversity and fun. Would you like that all is about an ultra Alphas and heat/CD reduction quirks?

[ShinVector]

Bush Hopper, on 29 January 2015 - 12:49 AM, said:

At least 1 build should have flamer quirks - potent ones. After all the mech was actually designed for it.

True. However, it is also about diversity and fun. Would you like that all is about an ultra Alphas and heat/CD reduction quirks?

They should remove ghost heat on flamers. It weak can't make a mech overheat more than 90% but yet still has ghost heat.. Bleah !

I would be happy with them fixing hit registration.

[zortesh]

I still feel the ember, which needed no quirks becuase it was op(apparently, seems weak now that machine guns suck) could do with flamer quirks..... just for lolz.

[Ultimax]

Flamers as a weapon are pure garbage.

Giving mechs quirks for garbage weapons, leads to garbage mechs.


PGI would first need to re-design flamers to not be terrible before they could give any mech quirks based on them.

[imadoctor009]

I don"t think there is any argument that the Firestarter shouldn't get querks. As in lore, the firestarter is a mech designed to use flamers and it deserves querks for them. We have seen PGI give various mechs PPC velocity quirks because of there lore loadouts weilding them, so I don't think that is a problem. The only question to ask about these quirks is "when" we will get them.
The bigger concern that has been dominating this topic has not been "should the firestarter get quirks" but "how can flamers be changed to make them more "balanced" or "viable" as a weapon".
Unless I hear of an upcoming change, I will try to do the best I can to voice a question in the next town hall meeting with Russ. I think this may be the best way for our concerns over flamers and the querks for firestarters to be heard atm. That is...unless they stumble upon this form topic. If any of you here can make it to the next town hall meeting, I invite you to join the meeting too in hopes of getting an answer to our questions regarding the issue.

[Brody319]

It would be easier to just Fix the damn thing. rather than quirk the hell out of the firestarter for a trash weapon.

[SaltBeef]

The Flamer quirks yes! the Flamer Quirks Yes! the Flamer Quirks yes!

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Flamer quirks are pointless until the Flamer gets reworked.

Flamer: 5 damage, 5 heat, 90/180m range, 5s cooldown, 3 heat to the target on hit.

[imadoctor009]

Brody319, on 29 January 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

It would be easier to just Fix the damn thing. rather than quirk the hell out of the firestarter for a trash weapon.

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 29 January 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Flamer quirks are pointless until the Flamer gets reworked.

Why not do both?
Also, slapping on some quirks would probably be the easy part. Just give it at least a 10%-15% range boost and some extra heat generation bonus for flamers and your set. Redesigning and balancing out flamers would most likey take most time to figure out and integrate into the game. Flamers have a very odd mechanic with their exponential heat gain. I agree that the sooner flamers get reworked the better, though im not sure what their ETA on it would be and how much of a priority it is on PGI's todo list. These are questions I hope to get answered in the next town hall meeting and I think I think it might be good to brainstorm a few ideas on how to actually go about changing flamers in a way that will work and stay true to the nature of the weapon

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 29 January 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Flamer: 5 damage, 5 heat, 90/180m range, 5s cooldown, 3 heat to the target on hit.

Also, I don't think giving flamers a cooldown is a good idea. I mean, continually spitting flames onto your screaming foe while laughing maniaclly is half the fun! Like I have stated before, I look at flamers as the energy version of the machinegun. Continueous fire is one of the defining traits of what a flamer is, do you not agree?

[zortesh]

Ultimatum X, on 29 January 2015 - 06:08 AM, said:

Flamers as a weapon are pure garbage.

Giving mechs quirks for garbage weapons, leads to garbage mechs.


PGI would first need to re-design flamers to not be terrible before they could give any mech quirks based on them.

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 29 January 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Flamer quirks are pointless until the Flamer gets reworked.

Flamer: 5 damage, 5 heat, 90/180m range, 5s cooldown, 3 heat to the target on hit.

The fact flamers suck is not a reason to not give already teir one mechs flamer quirks for a joke, certainly its no worse then no quirks, get a sense of humor, give the ember flamer quirks.