65 replies to this topic

[Stormyblade]

Mcchuggernaut, on 20 February 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

Uh, have you been playing in a heavy or assault lately that has no ECM and isn't very fast? Especially on a large, open map like Alpine, Caustic, or parts of Terra Therma? LRMs are an absolute nightmare in these situations. If you have ECM missiles aren't much of a problem, but if you don't you can spend an entire match pinned down or getting spammed with no way to break lock or get to cover. AMS? Don't make me laugh. It's useless. A good missile boat just counters it by completely overwhelming it. You might live an extra two seconds. Even if you have ECM, a light can just decide to pop his head over a rock and TAG you from across the map and your just as screwed as if you hadn't mounted it. The ONLY two truly effective counters for LRMs are tall cover that can't just be shot over between you and the missile boat, or extreme speed in excess of 100kph. Any slower and the splash damage still legs lights pretty fast. If you don't run heavies or assaults, of course you won't think missiles are that good, but if you do you spend a lot of matches doing nothing but trying to avoid them.

Pjwned, on 21 February 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

Nothing has recently changed to make it less of a factor, so that's wrong. Maybe you shouldn't be out in the open with a big, slow mech without any AMS.

Maybe you should read the post - even if you have AMS on a big open map you'll get rained on with LRM, no matter what 'mech you are piloting, but it's even worse for those running assaults. You must not PUG much because that's what I see in at least 75% of the matches I am in.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Pjwned, on 21 February 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

Maybe you shouldn't be out in the open with a big, slow mech without any AMS.

As a 3 year veteran player, I am well aware of how you should handle LRMs. I get extremely tired of the generic "try using cover" response to any post about LRM avoidance. This often comes from people who don't use 100-ton mechs that move at 40-50kph (and in the case of clan mechs you can't just put in a bigger engine). When you are that large and slow, nimbly dodging between bits of tall cover is not so easy. Plus, a lot of cover isn't tall enough to shield you. You are going to run into plenty of situations when you are targeted, there is no tall cover nearby that you are fast enough to get to, and you are just boned. You try your best to avoid those situations, but they are going to happen a lot anyway. You make one little mistake in a mech like that, and your trashed in mere seconds.

[Weeny Machine]

If you re-work ECM, you need to re-work LRMs, too. In a PUG where you have no control about your team's setup, LRMs prove often deadly because it is so easy for 3+ mechs to focus one down from 600-800 away with not even having LoS. Just have a look at the contest currently and watch what happens if the enemy team has the ECM and even more LRM carriers than you do.

As for the "use cover" argument:
It is amusing that people are never engaged with an enemy and can casually stroll into cover whenever they want on every map when the LRM alert comes up

Edited by Bush Hopper, 21 February 2015 - 01:30 AM.

[zagibu]

I still think ECM should only disrupt the sensors of the mech locked with R. This way, you could still disable that LRM Stalker with it, but 1) you'd need LOS and 2) other enemies would be unaffected, apart from not getting radar information of the Stalker dude.

Edited by zagibu, 21 February 2015 - 01:49 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Pretty sure there was a very good very detailed post on how to change ECM for the better.

[KharnZor]

El Bandito, on 21 February 2015 - 12:03 AM, said:

I can reliably count on victory whenever we have ECM superiority. It is a factor.

I don't agree. With the counters that ecm has it doesn't really matter. The only real effect it has is on lrm use.
Otherwise if you can see it you can shoot it.

[El Bandito]

KharnZor, on 21 February 2015 - 03:06 AM, said:

I don't agree. With the counters that ecm has it doesn't really matter. The only real effect it has is on lrm use.
Otherwise if you can see it you can shoot it.

You can shoot but will be less effective due to the fact you cannot see the exact configuration of the mech, or the components that are low on armor. ECM is not just about LRM negation, it is about info denial, which is arguably more important at certain Elo.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 February 2015 - 03:35 AM.

[STEF_]

KharnZor, on 21 February 2015 - 03:06 AM, said:

I don't agree. With the counters that ecm has it doesn't really matter. The only real effect it has is on lrm use.
Otherwise if you can see it you can shoot it.

El Bandito, on 21 February 2015 - 03:35 AM, said:

You can shoot but will be less effective due to the fact you cannot see the exact configuration of the mech, or the components that are low on armor. ECM is not just about LRM negation, it is about info denial, which is arguably more important at certain Elo.

As said in my previous post, R button is a game pillar.
You can see the mech, but without locking you cannot see where it is critical, or its loadout.
For me, above all piloting a light, it's a basilar matter to understand enemy loadout (lrm or srm/streak; er-LL or slp/mpl. it changes everything)

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcchuggernaut, on 20 February 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

Uh, have you been playing in a heavy or assault lately that has no ECM and isn't very fast? Especially on a large, open map like Alpine, Caustic, or parts of Terra Therma? LRMs are an absolute nightmare in these situations. If you have ECM missiles aren't much of a problem, but if you don't you can spend an entire match pinned down or getting spammed with no way to break lock or get to cover. AMS? Don't make me laugh. It's useless. A good missile boat just counters it by completely overwhelming it. You might live an extra two seconds. Even if you have ECM, a light can just decide to pop his head over a rock and TAG you from across the map and your just as screwed as if you hadn't mounted it. The ONLY two truly effective counters for LRMs are tall cover that can't just be shot over between you and the missile boat, or extreme speed in excess of 100kph. Any slower and the splash damage still legs lights pretty fast. If you don't run heavies or assaults, of course you won't think missiles are that good, but if you do you spend a lot of matches doing nothing but trying to avoid them.

Yes I run an Atlas-S. ECM is Over Powered for what Guardian is meant to be. It should be toned down. BUT it is not earth shaking OP.

[Lily from animove]

Stefka Kerensky, on 21 February 2015 - 12:38 AM, said:

R is usefull to track enemy mech, that is: seeing its weaponry (and so you can position/react properly), if it has critical exposed, its armor status.

It's enormously usefull!

edit: I don't use lrm, because of what you already said about them

yes and no, but I doubt we get that much more ecm visible on the field, And OP's concerns were about lrm's
Especially now with VOIP, pressing R is not that important anymore if you can just tell people where those pesky jesusbox robos stand around.

honestly voip was always an ecm breaker, which so far was a premade Voip using group advanatge, now its open to everyone.

[MechWarrior5152251]

A dark day for the Inner Sphere. ECM is far more valuable than 99% of players think it is. Not having the red brackets around your target makes it much much harder to hit at long range. This will force me to play more fast lights which is really the only way IS can compete with clan tech. More likely I will just start piloting my clan mechs and abandon all IS mechs.

[Joseph Mallan]

MechWarrior5152251, on 21 February 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

A dark day for the Inner Sphere. ECM is far more valuable than 99% of players think it is. Not having the red brackets around your target makes it much much harder to hit at long range. This will force me to play more fast lights which is really the only way IS can compete with clan tech. More likely I will just start piloting my clan mechs and abandon all IS mechs.

No it doesn't. At least for me it doesn't.

[Lily from animove]

MechWarrior5152251, on 21 February 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

A dark day for the Inner Sphere. ECM is far more valuable than 99% of players think it is. Not having the red brackets around your target makes it much much harder to hit at long range. This will force me to play more fast lights which is really the only way IS can compete with clan tech. More likely I will just start piloting my clan mechs and abandon all IS mechs.

makes it only hard/impossible on river city night when they are out of night/heat vision

[quan jue]

Not for me I hunt by sight and seismic using wubs and srm.

Ecm doesn't bother me.

[Weeny Machine]

The fast new clan mechs will be a balancing nightmare simply because clan weapons are lighter. Add to that ECM and also, depending how strong it is, MASC and I predict a new level of problems

[KharnZor]

Stefka Kerensky, on 21 February 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

As said in my previous post, R button is a game pillar.
You can see the mech, but without locking you cannot see where it is critical, or its loadout.
For me, above all piloting a light, it's a basilar matter to understand enemy loadout (lrm or srm/streak; er-LL or slp/mpl. it changes everything)

Strange, all i have to do is look at mech to tell where damaged components are and then act accordingly. Considering my play style its remarkably easy. Its that same play style that makes ecm almost totally irrelevant to me.

[TWIAFU]

EvilCow, on 20 February 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

It is possible that ECMed mechs will become so common on the battlefield that LRMs/SSRMs will become even more underwhelming.

In my opinion it would be a good idea so seriously revisit the ECM before the new mechs are introduced. Clearly ECM is an hot topic inside PGI and in the community but it has to be addressed before throwing balance off even more.

Thoughts?

IMO, it would be great if ECM pilots had working J keys on keyboards.

Just about every single ECM pilot I see all have the same problem, broken or missing J key.

[STEF_]

KharnZor, on 21 February 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

Strange, all i have to do is look at mech to tell where damaged components are and then act accordingly. Considering my play style its remarkably easy. Its that same play style that makes ecm almost totally irrelevant to me.

There are two factors.

If I can look and stare at the enemy mechs I can lock and can share information about enemy with the team, because not everybody can have los on that enemy.

And there are many time that its better if someone else can stare at the enemy and can give information for me, because I can avoid to expose myself.

Info is usefull.

[Joseph Mallan]

Stefka Kerensky, on 21 February 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

There are two factors.

If I can look and stare at the enemy mechs I can lock and can share information about enemy with the team, because not everybody can have los on that enemy.

And there are many time that its better if someone else can stare at the enemy and can give information for me, because I can avoid to expose myself.

Info is usefull.Ammunition

FTFY

[Livewyr]

El Bandito, on 20 February 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

#MakeGECMfuctionasGECMnotasAECM&halfStealthArmor

FOTY.

------------------------------------------------

Mmmmm

Shadowcat with ECM.
My special forces mech returns to me.