54 replies to this topic

[Bubblewhip]

So I recently bought a Stalker 4N for the purpose of laser boating this thing. And I got an effective build with 4 LLasers and 2 Streaks (For light mech purposes) and cramming as many heat sinks with a STD engine as I possibly could.

This build worked out well, I can vomit out lasers almost all day so long as I don't alpha them, but I found that I was getting damage up to the 500s and sometimes not even netting a single kill.

Is this good? I'm used to builds like my Dual AC10 Katapault and my Dual SRM 6 Raven 3l netting me kills in proportion to the amount of damage i deal out, but with this 4N it seems like I do massive damage with no kills in most rounds.

Edited by Bubblewhip, 24 February 2015 - 11:30 PM.

[Kotzi]

Because lasers need their time to do the full damage. Ballistics do their full damage upon hit same as missiles. Lasers have a duration while shooting thus you likely spread your damage in this period.

[Frytrixa]

since lasers are no point damage weapons an unskilled pilot will do less kills.
The key is timing and sometimes accuracy, if you have a target were multiple teammates shoot on, take your time and watch the target info to be sure to take the last blow or if you have a one torso clan mech go for the other dietorso.

[PirLanTota]

Killing blows are not that important anyway (outside of challenges). I rather have a Stalker on my team that does 500 damage and makes no kills than a stalker with 100 damage and 3 kills.

You deal the damage, if someone else finishes the job, excellent team work, move on to the next target!

[Saryonarve]

Well, four Large Lasers don't really do an excessive amount of damage all at once, even if you manage to stay in the same section for the full duration(there are mechs out there with lower tonnage than you that have higher alpha strikes, and mostly pinpoint to boot). You have to keep up your fire, which gives your teammates time to show up and finish the enemy off. As the guy above me mentioned, so long as the enemy is dead it doesn't really matter who finished him off. Unless, as also mentioned, you're trying to achieve kills for a challenge. And, admittedly, I felt pretty frustrated in my 4x ErLL Stalker many times during the last challenge.

If you want kills, you're going to have to do your best to focus all of your damage to either the CT or one of the ST's(depends on whether you think they have an XL engine). The kills will come as your accuracy with the LL's improves. Although there's still no guarantee. I've had matches where I've done over 900 damage, but never quite managed to get that killing blow.

As a side note, do your Streaks actually do any real good? I haven't really used'em, but wouldn't you basically be shooting 4 Srm's to random places on the enemy mech? Which can make it hard to do any effective damage to the lights(i.e., the damage can go anywhere but their legs/damaged torso). If you can acquire and maintain a lock on a light I'd assume you can figure out how to lead with regular Srm's, which would allow you to more effectively place where your damage is going. Although, I suppose if it causes most of the squirrels you encounter to scatter it's probably effective enough...

[SethAbercromby]

Saryonarve, on 25 February 2015 - 01:11 AM, said:

As a side note, do your Streaks actually do any real good? I haven't really used'em, but wouldn't you basically be shooting 4 Srm's to random places on the enemy mech? Which can make it hard to do any effective damage to the lights(i.e., the damage can go anywhere but their legs/damaged torso). If you can acquire and maintain a lock on a light I'd assume you can figure out how to lead with regular Srm's, which would allow you to more effectively place where your damage is going. Although, I suppose if it causes most of the squirrels you encounter to scatter it's probably effective enough...

The trick is that ou can keep your lasers on target AND hit with the Streaks at any range thanks to the lock-on. In that case, they are pretty much additive damage to what you can do with your lasers, rather than having to lead your shots, which will throw off your lasers.

[SnagaDance]

I wonder about those Streaks as well. I'd simply chain fire those blue beams at the Lights. I can tell you that when I'm in a Light and the blue candy starts spraying, that's the time I start praying (and getting the hell out of there). Use that tonnage for even more heatsinks or maybe upgrade 2 of your LL to LPL's, they will help in getting the kills.

[Pat Kell]

With laser builds if you are unable to maintain a steady stream on a single component, you will likely get high damage and low kills as direct fire weapons will tend to swoop in and core out badly damaged mechs while you will tend to spread your damage around to multiple components. It's not a bad build as it's great for picking off components but it will be tough to get kills unless you're able to hold the beam on a specific area.

[NovaFury]

Try six large lasers. Trust me.

[Kmieciu]

NovaFury, on 25 February 2015 - 02:16 AM, said:

Try six large lasers. Trust me.

+1
Fire 3. Then after 0.5 seconds fire the other 3.
You'll get kills.

[Koniving]

Using the 3 + 3 method of large lasers, for firing 3 at a time you will deal:

(Checks quirks to see if there's any duration changes for the 4N)
LARGE LASER RANGE: 10.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 10.00 % LARGE LASER COOLDOWN: 10.00 % ENERGY COOLDOWN: 10.00 % LARGE LASER HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -10.00 % MISSILE COOLDOWN: 12.50 %

There are none.

Continuing.

3 large lasers at 9 damage per 1 second of beam time with 1 second of beam time (where ER LLs are 1.25 seconds)...
9 damage per 0.33 (repeating) seconds. 27 damage total per firing of 3 LLs.

With 0.5 seconds in between firings to fire a total of 6 LLs...
You'll deal a total of 54 damage in 1.5 seconds.
This is usually enough to strip the armor off the side torso of almost any mech. One more well-placed volley of 3 LL will destroy said side torso.

Note to make lasers of any sort more effective, you need to concentrate them on a specific body part, preferably on the very same spot (to avoid the risk of spreading it).

Under normal circumstances this would be at 7*3 heat (21 heat) per volley of 3.
With the accumulative energy heat reduction and large laser heat reduction, you are generating a total of 20% less for 16.8 heat per volley of 3.

If you were to fire 4 at once, you'd generate 7*4+3.43 (31.43 heat) due to ghost heat (instead of 28). With a 20% reduction, which does not apply to ghost heat, that is 7*4-20%+3.43 = 25.83 per volley of 4 for the Stalker 4N.

Just food for thought.

Spoiler

Standard LL cooldown is 1 second beam time + 3.25 second recharge. (4.25 seconds from fire start to fire start).
For just any elited mech, that is 5% reduced. (3.25 - 5% = 3.0875) (3.0875 + 1 second beam time = 4.0875 seconds from fire start to fire start).

For a standard 4N quirked: cooldown is 1 second beam time + (3.25 second recharge - 20% accumulative reduction = 2.6). (3.6 seconds from fire start to fire start).
For an elited 4N quirked: cooldown is 1 second beam time + (3.25 second recharge - 25% accumulative reduction = 2.4375). (3.4375 seconds from fire start to fire start).

Just for those wondering how fast it fires.

Edited by Koniving, 25 February 2015 - 05:26 AM.

[TercieI]

As others have said, alter your build to 6LL and fire them 3&3 (left&right). I was using a 2/2/2 firing pattern for awhile and when I switched to 3/3 the mech became significantly more lethal (and that was before the GH limit raise)

[Honk the Wondergoose]

Definitely go for the 6LL. You mentioned you had streaks for taking care of light Mechs, but if a light sees that you are packin, they wont get close. IF they do, you have enough lasers to leg them easily.

[That Dawg]

A stalker against the 6LL build

wait...that didn't sound right...as a person who runs the 4N
IF you have cool down modules, and range modules (you got those during the sale, yes?)
then the 4 LL build deals damage faster, even tho less alpha.
The cool down quirks are actually fast enough to generate MORE heat in a battle- cause they respool faster
I suggest this simply in the excitement of battle, I've killed sooo many 6 laser stalkers..because they shutdown from heat, and that includes the 3/3, the 2/2/2 and the nutter who alphas after alpha
2/2 really lays out the damage ESPECIALLY on all the HOT maps you are going to see!
left mouse 2 LL, right mouse 2LL, mouse #3 chain fire all four
its a GREAT mech, real bread winner

and yes, lose the streaks, this is a laser monster

[JC Daxion]

Often it just has to do with timing. Holding off a shot for a moment to hit the weak point in armor when a mech is turning can really be helpful. Personally i think people are way to into kills, verse the team aspect. I have mechs that i can pull 500-700 damage in, rack up 6-10 assists, yet, the kills are rare. (even one of my best mechs, my jester, i can get high damage but go matches with out kills and i even have pulse lasers on it, which are pretty darn helpful with kills)



Id switch to this... http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0cca352e4d14f79

it runs the same alpha as the 6 LL version, but has much better cooling, and nearly 1.5 more DPS, and you would need to drop to a std275 so a slow mech, even slower.. Not to say it is wrong, clearly for some it is a good build, just not my cup of tea.


To me the above is really superior over this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0f34a0a50908267

Edited by JC Daxion, 25 February 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[RedEagle86]

If you're against using 6 LL's, for whatever reason, this is what I run on mine (pre- and post-quirk): 4LL, 2MPL, STD 300.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...93bec448833044a

[Bubblewhip]

Well the streaks are there mainly because I was finding that I was running more out of crit slots than weight even with just standard armor and structure. So to make it efficient I wanted a low heat weapon that would also deter the light mech. The streaks are there so if I run super hot like in the 75-80% territory in a bad brawl, I still have a weapon that can deal out some damage while i cool down. Because of the poor torso twist and slow speed, streaks seem to be the answer over unguided SRMS.

[Vlad Striker]

If you want kills you must use fast shooting weaponry or streaming large DPS weaponry (more 17-18). Thats why Firestarters have plenty kills. Such example for STK is LRM boating,

[JC Daxion]

are you running 3 or 2?

Stalkers do take some getting used to, but every stalker i run i have at least 2 Racks of SRM's.. Use the lasers to sweep the legs of lights, everything else you should be able to twist and turn to hit. Often, you need to reverse your rotation to get a good shot, or slow it, and let um circle faster, as most people just keep going and will come back into range. Another option is to back up to something so they can't get behind you. SRM's take some getting used too, but once you do you will be doing much much better.

I only use streaks on mechs that don't have energy slots, or if you really wanna play a light hunter, but these days the only thing i still have streaks on is my C4 Cat.. You also need BAP and or tag for um, so really SRM's are the way to go for weight, and damage on the 4N.. you don't need aretmis with SRM 4's, so not much harm in trying um, besides, 4's can be used on a ton of mechs, so not really a waste of cash to give it a shot. Drop 30-40 times with um before you give up on um..

[TercieI]

Vlad Striker, on 25 February 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

If you want kills you must use fast shooting weaponry or streaming large DPS weaponry (more 17-18). Thats why Firestarters have plenty kills. Such example for STK is LRM boating,

Lol. No. LRMs are the worst way to get kills. Always. SRMs, lasers, PPCs...all deadlier on Stalkers. Want big empty damage numbers? Go LRMs.