437 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Sure,. except when facing lighter faster foes, it's often about when you have to reposition yourself. Should make nibbling on DWs with my Hunchy all the more lovely.

Well, even on Skirmish on River City, I've learned to just get going and stop thinking about being lost. Otherwise, the poor initiative tends to get me killed.

Sometimes the first step in a Dire can be one's complete misstep when they start a match. Not moving early in the match costs you.

You can thank/blame NASCAR for reinforcing that (but it's also true for non-NASCAR matches).

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Personally, I'd only give access to Speed Tweak to a choice few Clan mechs to begin with.
We dont need Timberwolves going 89 and Stormcrows going 106.

Id rather see that happen over them doing whats being proposed

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 16 March 2015 - 11:13 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

i would like to see how IS players feel when they get their LFE(LightFusionEngines),
and they also get all these penalties, and Scream that its Unfair and Russ is Nerfing IS,
Edit- spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 16 March 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 16 March 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Personally, I'd only give access to Speed Tweak to a choice few Clan mechs to begin with.
We dont need Timberwolves going 89 and Stormcrows going 106.

Id rather see that happen over them doing whats being proposed

Never thought about this, but kind of like it. Have to think about the ramifications, but that might be just the type of "light nerf" that would work for those two.

For the Direwolf? Just disable the Armlock Crutch, lol.

Andi Nagasia, on 16 March 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

i would like to see how IS players feel when they get their LFE(LightFusionEngines),
and they also get all these penalties, and Scream that its Unfair and Russ it just Nerfing IS,

I'm fine with it, because they are SUPPOSED TO HAVE IT.

Thus, if someone is getting their knickers in a twist, oh well. It's still a huge advantage in most cases. Being able to do over 90 in my HBK-4G and then be slower and hotter after losing a torso? It's a tradeoff from being a ZOmbie, but one that could be very worthwhile.

Also, IMO,. these are the type of balance tweaks needed to be able to better justify unlocking things like Endo.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 16 March 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

heh calibrating engine.. basically a 10 second window to hit override and try to suicide.. your dead anyway

[Steve Pryde]

Remove the rule of dead IS mechs with XL Engines cause auf destroyed side torsos. But not such a bullshit. Reduced speed? Why not more heat? But ok, nerf clan mechs and in the future maybe we get the choise to add endo and/or ferro.

[Corbenik]

Rhent, on 16 March 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

ROFLMO on the complaints for Clan Light mechs.

Lets put this in perspective:
-IS Light mechs almost exclusively run XL's and when they lose a torso they explode.
-Clan Light mechs that lose a torso lose 20% of heat sinks & speed.

Gee, I wonder what faction would rather trade XL engine losses?

but still what is the highest speed IS lights go compared to Clan lights with XL? and hit box and size wise?

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 16 March 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

Actually, the IS light mech would usually avoid the side torso loss in the first place because of way higher top speed and often more humanoid hitboxes that are better for damage spreading.

For lights of any faction, legs are way more important than side torsos.

Legs are obviously more important, but I actually kill a fair number of ravens through their STs.

Clan streakboats can often just brute force a ST kill if there is already damage there (luck based, or unlucky based as it were)

Edited by Ultimatum X, 16 March 2015 - 11:37 AM.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 16 March 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Legs are obviously more important, but I actually kill a fair number of ravens through their STs.

Clan streakboats can often just brute force a ST kill if there is already damage their (luck based, or unlucky based as it were)

Barring something like getting one-shotted by a Gigaspike Whale or something, IS lights usually lose a side only after there's been plenty of damage to the rest of their body or even losing one of their legs...

For lights, the benefits of Warp Speed probably outweigh the ability to survive a dual Gauss or AC/40 to the side.

[CutterWolf]

So where is my "opt out option?" Just like the IS I want my opt out option, where is my Clan standard engine??

[Heffay]

Corbenik, on 16 March 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:

but still what is the highest speed IS lights go compared to Clan lights with XL? and hit box and size wise?

Clan lights will be getting quirks tomorrow. The net change between quirks and Clan XL engine changes might still be a buff for them.

[Corbenik]

Heffay, on 16 March 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Clan lights will be getting quirks tomorrow. The net change between quirks and Clan XL engine changes might still be a buff for them.

ah thought only the adder was :X but i guess we will see how it goes.

[Apnu]

DarthRevis, on 16 March 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Actually when it comes to light mechs Speed=Life so they are in fact DEAD once they loose the ST. So i might as well be dead and honestly would rather be.


They need to just make it the same across the board...why make me suffer and get shot to **** for 3 seconds? To pad some stats? Just kill me and my OP Clan XL Mech.

Just make it vanilla and both sides die on ST loose so we cant stop this already.

While true, clan light mechs aren't that fast. If you just lost your toso, a 10% speed loss isn't the biggest thing on your worry list.

I agree however. This is one point where MWO can borrow from the TT ruleset and it would work. In the TT, every engine has three HP. Each time you take a crit to the engine, you lose a HP. That's why, with IS XLs if you lose all the internal structure, the torso falls off taking all equipment with it, auto critting the engine for each slot there. 3 for IS, so the engine is dead.

Clans, since they have 2 crit slots, can survive it. They have to eat some nasty heat penalties. I don't mind if PGI would just up the heat penalty when a clan mech loses a torso. I'll still shed no tears for them, but I would consider it a fair perk for using clan tech.

CutterWolf, on 16 March 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

So where is my "opt out option?" Just like the IS I want my opt out option, where is my Clan standard engine??

Clans only field XL engines. You run that tech you get everything, warts and all.

[WarHippy]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Never thought about this, but kind of like it. Have to think about the ramifications, but that might be just the type of "light nerf" that would work for those two.

Seems like the better solution to me than silly blanket nerfs across the board.

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Thus, if someone is getting their knickers in a twist, oh well. It's still a huge advantage in most cases. Being able to do over 90 in my HBK-4G and then be slower and hotter after losing a torso? It's a tradeoff from being a ZOmbie, but one that could be very worthwhile.

That is indeed a tradeoff worth considering, however Clans don't have the option of choosing which style they prefer so it seems to be rather silly in my opinion to do these changes without some quality of life adjustments.

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Also, IMO,. these are the type of balance tweaks needed to be able to better justify unlocking things like Endo.

That would be great, but I'm not seeing any indication from the powers that be that we might see changes like that. Personally, unlocking things like Endo, or allowing Clans to have limited changes to engines for instance +/- 25 engine rating as well as engine heatsinks seems rather fair given these proposed changes. Maybe they should also look at reversing the heat increase on ERMLAS as well?

I have been playing my IS mechs for months and only started playing some of my Clan mechs again this weekend, and for me personally the Clan mechs mostly feel terrible in comparison to the IS mechs. Further nerfing really has me concerned with my purchase of wave 3; not that I am looking for a refund but I fear that my enjoyment of those mechs is going to be rather tarnished as is my enthusiasm for any future Clan additions.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 16 March 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

For lights, the benefits of Warp Speed probably outweigh the ability to survive a dual Gauss or AC/40 to the side.

if it didn't, you see more any standard engine lights.

Still, moving 20% slower after a Badder loses its ST is still better than dying entirely. Hopefully the upcoming quirks will help it out. The badder does get a hell of a lot of pod space in return for its (comparatively ) slow speed. Its not a really fair trade, but that's what the translation to FPS/Sim does to things.


I said it earlier, and I will again. If this change can lead to other clan wide fixes such as unlocking ES and fixing the garbage clan autocannons, I'm all for it.

[wanderer]

If damaging engines actually did what it did in TT, we wouldn't have an issue.

Of course, that would mean IS XLs (or standards!) could go boom before internals do, and Clan 'Mechs could simply go internal in two torso locations and drop dead. The big problem has always been that massive chunks of the internal damage model and heat scaling simply don't exist. Engine damage prior to section destroyed. Gyro damage. Heat causing a 'Mech to slow down and become less responsive. Actuator damage reducing arm motion or speed.
Kludgy minimum effort fixes like this? Meh.

[cSand]

Andi Nagasia, on 16 March 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

i would like to see how IS players feel when they get their LFE(LightFusionEngines),
and they also get all these penalties, and Scream that its Unfair and Russ is Nerfing IS,
Edit- spelling

This is fair that LFE would experience the same drawbacks as Clan XL.

Since the logic is that the penalties are brought on by losing part of the engine it makes sense!


IMO though

I don't see why we need to nerf clan mechs any more than they are

I really don't believe they are OP except to bads but for those guys everything is OP

Even the trinity's OPness is massively exaggerated

Edited by cSand, 16 March 2015 - 11:54 AM.

[RedDevil]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

as opposed to the IS mechs that just die in the same situation?

Yes, but you can take a standard engine and not suffer any penalties for losing a side torso in exchange for less speed. Clans have no choice. They must take an XL engine. Creating an entire faction that dies to losing a side torso no matter what would be silly.

[Mcgral18]

Apnu, on 16 March 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Clans only field XL engines. You run that tech you get everything, warts and all.

False, MWO simply hasn't implemented a STD engine Clan mech yet.

KingFisher and Stooping Hawk are both available...but are avoided for obvious reasons.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Heffay, on 16 March 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Clan lights will be getting quirks tomorrow.

Only the Adder is getting quirks tomorrow unless Russ tweeted something more recent.