101 replies to this topic

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Are you trying to turn this game into Hello Kitty Online-2? There are enough tutorials, and rewards are actually excessive, which sometimes turns new players off (as it was in my case).
It is enough to read the controls section and play alone a couple of times to get the grip of the game. Mastering it will take months. Where is the punishment? In hours of fun?!

I would suggest the following:
1. removal of the cadet bonus (it almost made me uninstall the game);
2. removal of daily double experience;
3. removal of some shop items.

Edited by lunticasylum, 27 April 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[Telmasa]

MW:O needs an easily accessible PV:E storymode campaign with full roleplay immersion & plenty tutorials where the players are introduced to each aspect of Mechwarrior combat as they progress through that campaign.

You know, like every other Mechwarrior title to date.

i increased the text size so that Mike/Tina/Russ don't have to squint after all the other walls of text.

[Escef]

Phashe, on 27 April 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

Makes me sad that we cannot help new players.

I've had a few people pop into my livestream and decide they wanted to try the game, and I tried to give them as much info as I could to help them get into the game. We CAN help them, if we want to.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 25 April 2015 - 10:11 PM, said:

I think the word you are looking for is "masochist".

No I like hurting others more than I like being hurt.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pjwned, on 27 April 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

The thing is that things like gold ammo and armor of invulnerability (which obviously don't literally exist here) are stupid in a purely PvP game like this, and crap like that never existed before certain F2P games came along because every other game saw why giving people a competitive advantage simply for paying money or playing longer was dumb.

The only reason to justify such metagame crap is to line the publisher's wallet with money and absolutely nothing to do with it being good for the game, so if you say "well yeah obviously new players should get slaughtered by those who paid money or played longer, duh" then I'm going to say "enjoy playing your dead piece of crap game while I go play something else."

In every Video game I have ever played.

You start with a PoS Weapon and PoS Armor and as you play and grow you get better gear. It is no different here in MW:O. I either start with a PoS Mech and earn a good ride or I can pay cash and have it now!

So hard work and experience

or rich daddy

to own anything good in a game.

[Pjwned]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

In every Video game I have ever played.

You start with a PoS Weapon and PoS Armor and as you play and grow you get better gear. It is no different here in MW:O. I either start with a PoS Mech and earn a good ride or I can pay cash and have it now!

So hard work and experience

or rich daddy

to own anything good in a game.

The third option is not playing and not spending money because the money-grubbing grindfest is taken too far.

[Phashe]

lunticasylum, on 27 April 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

Are you trying to turn this game into Hello Kitty Online-2? There are enough tutorials, and rewards are actually excessive, which sometimes turns new players off (as it was in my case).
It is enough to read the controls section and play alone a couple of times to get the grip of the game. Mastering it will take months. Where is the punishment? In hours of fun?!

I would suggest the following:
1. removal of the cadet bonus (it almost made me uninstall the game);
2. removal of daily double experience;

What? I had to read this twice to make sure I was reading it correctly. I have concluded this is either a troll post or sarcasm. Right? :-\

[Deathlike]

Phashe, on 03 May 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

What? I had to read this twice to make sure I was reading it correctly. I have concluded this is either a troll post or sarcasm. Right? :-\

He's serious.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Pjwned, on 27 April 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

The thing is that things like gold ammo and armor of invulnerability (which obviously don't literally exist here) are stupid in a purely PvP game like this, and crap like that never existed before certain F2P games came along because every other game saw why giving people a competitive advantage simply for paying money or playing longer was dumb.

The only reason to justify such metagame crap is to line the publisher's wallet with money and absolutely nothing to do with it being good for the game, so if you say "well yeah obviously new players should get slaughtered by those who paid money or played longer, duh" then I'm going to say "enjoy playing your dead piece of crap game while I go play something else."



The significant difference with MWO and other MMOs is that MWO is extremely lacking in content, and in particular there's no PvE content whatsoever, so shoving in a crappy artificial grind becomes a lot harder to justify. At least in other MMOs when you're doing quests and exploring and gaining levels (which could be considered "grinding") you're experiencing a variety of content, but here all you experience is getting blown to bits by other players in their mechs that aren't death traps because they grinded more or paid more than you in a purely PvP game.



The problem is that there are plenty of builds that rely on those doubled basics and elites (and possibly even the master module slot) to be decent, in particular brawling builds, because there are so many important bonuses tied to the mech tree that mechs are ultimately balanced around, and until they grind that crap up the mechs are significantly less effective.

I can stand that sort of grinding crap to an extent, despite my immense displeasure for it that regularly reminds me why I don't spend more money than the very small amount I spent in the past, but MWO takes it too far and it ruins the game.

I know another MMO that's purely PvP and you start off pretty much like you do in MWO, a guppy being tossed into the great white shark's feeding frenzy, PlanetSide 2. It seems to be doing well too, seems SOME of us really do like having to go up against players who are not only better than us but also better equipped and more powerful. Which was commonly seen in older MMOs that had PvP in them, like WoW and DAoC and AoC and so on. Quite a few of the Oriental F2P games are built around PvP and anything else is just a side note, they do very well also.

And no, you don't have to get a Mech Elited or Mastered to make it good, YOU do that with your own abilities, skills and knowledge of the game's mechanics. Anyone who thinks otherwise is lacking in those things and is blaming the game for their lack.

The game needs a better NPE, that's a given, but saying it's too hard on newbs really is pushing it. I've played MUCH harsher games, single player and online both, that had huge playerbases. We just have too many participation trophy crowd players whining because they actually do need their OWN personal skills to be any good in MWO, you can't fake it, you can't bot it, and you can't buy your way to the top like so many other MMOs today. Sucks to be them huh.

[Pjwned]

Kristov Kerensky, on 03 May 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

I know another MMO that's purely PvP and you start off pretty much like you do in MWO, a guppy being tossed into the great white shark's feeding frenzy, PlanetSide 2. It seems to be doing well too, seems SOME of us really do like having to go up against players who are not only better than us but also better equipped and more powerful. Which was commonly seen in older MMOs that had PvP in them, like WoW and DAoC and AoC and so on. Quite a few of the Oriental F2P games are built around PvP and anything else is just a side note, they do very well also.

Planetside 2 is the sole exception to both of your points, and it also plays much differently from MWO so even starting off in a similar manner is less punishing. None of those other games throw you into the shark tank to the extent that MWO does, and I struggle to think of a single Asian MMORPG (or any MMORPG really) that has PvP without a very significant amount of PvE content to go along with it.

Quote

And no, you don't have to get a Mech Elited or Mastered to make it good, YOU do that with your own abilities, skills and knowledge of the game's mechanics. Anyone who thinks otherwise is lacking in those things and is blaming the game for their lack.

I wasn't aware that missing a plethora of significant bonuses, all of which you're expected to have if you want a balanced match, don't make a mech good. Obviously player skill is part of making a mech good, but ignoring the bonuses you get from a mastered mech is idiotic and does not take into account people who are decently skilled but are gimped until finishing the asinine grind to fully kit out their mech.

Quote

The game needs a better NPE, that's a given, but saying it's too hard on newbs really is pushing it. I've played MUCH harsher games, single player and online both, that had huge playerbases. We just have too many participation trophy crowd players whining because they actually do need their OWN personal skills to be any good in MWO, you can't fake it, you can't bot it, and you can't buy your way to the top like so many other MMOs today. Sucks to be them huh.

While it's not ideal to get stomped by players that are better because they're more skilled, it's to be expected to an extent really because you're new and they're not and that can only be avoided so much. The problem comes when you get stomped by players who have better mechs than you because they grinded their mech for longer than you, and then on top of that find that the ELO system in this game is dogshit and you regularly get pitted against players significantly better than you anyways; you can even see this happen as an experienced player if you play a weight class that you only rarely (or never) played because you have different ELO values for each weight class.

[Bongo TauKat]

I agree that the number one failing of new player experience in MWO is the lack of training scenarios and instruction. I did see a number of very good vids on basic maneuvering and even shield arm/torso twist damage reduction skills. I firmly believe that a training mission or missions similar to the MW4 or MW3 games would make the transition from civvie to MechWarrior a great deal more accessible than just the deep end experience we have now.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pjwned, on 29 April 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

The third option is not playing and not spending money because the money-grubbing grindfest is taken too far.

And you have a problem with that option? If that is an opinion of some players, why should they stay? Right now there is still no game to be played. Nothing we do improves our position or reduces our opponents. There is no game to be won or lost. in that there is nothing but grind. But then again this game is not complete, and may likely never be. But an actual reason to be fighting one another would be nice.

[Escef]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 May 2015 - 04:53 AM, said:

Right now there is still no game to be played. Nothing we do improves our position or reduces our opponents. There is no game to be won or lost.

As the youngins say, lolwut?

Joseph Mallan, on 04 May 2015 - 04:53 AM, said:

But an actual reason to be fighting one another would be nice.

Because it's fun? Isn't that reason enough?

[Joseph Mallan]

Escef, on 04 May 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

As the youngins say, lolwut?



Because it's fun? Isn't that reason enough?

Nope. I need a reason to wanna fight. Just because, isn't a reason. "Be a part of the Clan Invasion era" is a reason to play.

I've been doing this since the 80s. Gaming in general since the 70s. This is very old.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 May 2015 - 05:22 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Xoco,
My sincere advice to you would be to have a look at the various recruitment threads on each house section of the forums. there are many casual units out there you could run with and learn from. Like any multiplayer game out there, it's always better with friends.
I've run with a few units now, always learning tips and tricks off of other players-it's best way to learn. The solo queue is NOT a good training ground, it teaches very poor habits and promotes very poor gameplay i.e the timid hiding to maximise your own personal score, often at expense of your TEAM.
If you fancy popping on a friendly TS server pm me and I'll give you the link to my units' one. If not, there are many..many units out there for you:)

[Escef]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 May 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

Nope. I need a reason to wanna fight. Just because, isn't a reason. "Be a part of the Clan Invasion era" is a reason to play.

I've been doing this since the 80s. Gaming in general since the 70s. This is very old.

I've been gaming most of my life, from the Atari 2600 when I was in grade school, D&D and Battletech at age 11 in '87, to today. It's a fight and it's in a motif I like. Did the whole "doing it for a cause" for realsies when I was in the Army, it's enough for me these days that I can get the rush of a fight and no one actually gets hurt.

[Almond Brown]

Mister Blastman, on 27 April 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

We had BBSs back when I was a kid and such wonderful diversions like The Pit or Tradewars. We also had MUDs (though, I didn't partake in them).

We also had fantastic multiplayer games (on the same system) like Combat™ or my personal favorite on the Atari 2600, Warlords!



Taken from my old piece of junk television that still works!

How many Online Players did that Atari system let you have?

[Almond Brown]

Kristov Kerensky, on 27 April 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

^^ Very much this.

Newbie que for people with less than 50 drops maybe? Give Cadets not only the cbill bonus but also give them a Mech for free when they complete their Cadet drops, have them select a Faction(Clan, IS or Lone Wolf) and give them a choice of 1 Mech of any Class for their Faction, IS if they go Lone Wolf as there is no such thing as a Lone Wolf in the Clans(push a little RP at em, fits the lore). If they are IS, the Mech selections should all include DHS, they can upgrade to ES/FF on their own, we're trying to help them out, not do the entire science project for them after all

This way a new player can do their 25 drops, get some cbills and a brand new NOT obsolete Mech of their choice but they will still be kept in the Newbie que for at least another 25 drops, which should let them build up enough cbills and xp to get that Mech leveled up a bit and afford some toys for it.

And how pray tell do you keep the scumbag Smurfs out of this "New Player" playground? Sounds more like a Grievers "wet dream" come true.

[Almond Brown]

And I would bet C-Bills, if the Training Ground had Mechs that shot back, we would see a thousand threads Whining about how the Test Bots are OP. Even Live turrets would surely be OP as hell too ffs.

Not much to be done really. Give all new players, Elited Assault class Mechs with FULL module packages and see if that helps. Don't be surprised when the NPE is still considered poor because it is not the Mech, in 99% of the cases but the Player inside it. For way to many, you just can't take the "Rambo" out of the player and for many others "Leroy Jenkins" is totally real.

Long Live "Rambo and Leroy!"

Edited by Almond Brown, 04 May 2015 - 09:27 AM.

[Apnu]

Xoco, on 25 April 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

TLDR:
Mechs grow stronger with time, which improves your performance. But why do we have to start out in the worst possible state, especially when you are already lacking in actual experience piloting the mech?

This wouldn't be a problem if the game put all the noobs in their own kiddie pool until they out grew it. If all newbies were only fighting other newbies in stock mechs for a while, everything would be better.

But PGI didn't want to have a tech war where players, like previous MW titles, raced to get into the biggest strongest mech in the game for end-game content. So they did what we have to day, any player, no matter how new can get an Atlas and start driving it day one. There's no training or earning to get it, they can just have it and go.

PGI's idea is to make each weight class viable in some way so we don't have an arms race to the Direwolf. You are talking about, correctly, is the side effect to eliminating the traditional Mechwarrior arms race.