4
After a lot of thought and some observation of the ridiculous proportion of those two 'mechs in particular being driven in Community Warfare- and especially the Battle of Tukayyid event- I've come up with an analysis of what appears to be the source of the power found in these chassis.
I can't promise to be absolutely 100% objective, mostly because anyone promising such either can't be a player of the game, or must be lying. However, I -can- promise that I will mark my opinion where it appears with words like 'I think', 'I feel', and 'I believe'.
This is going to be a rather long post, because I'm going to be analyzing the game, the mechanics of the game, and providing thoughts regarding those mechanics. If you're just going to say this is a 'wall of text' (which it isn't, a 'wall of text' is a mass of words with no paragraph breaks), 'too long', 'too long; didn't read' or 'way more writing than we need', then please don't bother- you'll have wasted your time and that of anyone else looking here.
If, however, you want to comment on particular balance, rules, quirks, reasoning, et cetera, please do so. I'm hoping that the folks over at PGI will read what I've typed here and consider it, even if they disagree, and an actual discussion of the thoughts presented will help everyone involved (me included) get a better perspective whether or not there is a problem, what the problem is, and what the good potential solutions to the problem are.
I'm not really entertaining the idea of adjusting Clan weapons, Clan equipment, or the omnimech system at this point, because the balance of any of these affects all of the 'mechs- making the SCR and TWF weaker this way would also make all other Clan 'mechs weaker by the same amount, and that would create at least as many problems as it would solve. It's better to reduce the degree of variation in power than to move the whole thing down (or up).
Why the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf?
That's really the biggest question, isn't it? What is it about these two chassis that makes them so powerful in this game?
It seems to me as though both of these 'mechs have a combination of benefits that, together, outweigh the benefits of all other chassis if one ignores quirks, and most other chassis even if one includes quirks. I'm going to go over these one by one, but for each element, I'm going to consider both chassis. While they do share certain elements of their power with each other, there are also advantages that are stronger in one or missing in the other.
It's important that the strength of these 'mechs comes from multiple sources- a lot of 'solutions' to the prevalence of the two chassis suggest that only one mechanic is the problem and needs to be toned down, or that only one disadvantage should be applied and that one disadvantage will somehow 'fix the balance issue'. Frankly, this is a bit silly, and has a lot of potential to wind up with these two 'mechs pigeonholed into one role each while still staying as powerful as they currently are. Doing that wouldn't actually solve any problems at all, it would just result in another mono-flavor metagame, much like when the one Thunderbolt had those ridiculous ER PPC quirks (I never took advantage of them, so you'll have to pardon me for neither recalling nor terribly caring at this point which Thunderbolt that was.)
Construction
This is where we first find advantage in the two chassis in question. Both the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf have advantages from the shape of the 'mech that affect their gameplay.
The Stormcrow is a tall 'mech, much like many other recent Medium weight 'mechs. However, it has three serious shape advantages.
- The main body of the torso is flat. When the Stormcrow twists towards one side or the other, it is very easy for the 'mech to present a shape that is less than half the width of its shoulders, vastly reducing the target zone. This is especially notable because when a pilot instinctively aims for the 'center of mass' of the torso, they are still firing within the zone that is affected by this. As an additional side effect, LRMs that are incoming can be easily guided into the location with the most remaining armor, and even high-angle LRM fire can be taken on the back panels if desired by twisting and leaning down.
- While active, a Stormcrow's legs are a smaller portion of the 'mech's height than its torso. This makes it difficult to fire on the part of the 'mech that is not affected by torso twisting, whether the Stormcrow is in the open or peeking over an obstacle.
- The Stormcrow's cockpit is mounted below its main torso. This means that, while a pilot must expose a significant portion of the 'mech in order to shoot over obstacles, it is very easy to place weapons into the 'mech that will allow it to do so. This in turn results in even more protection for the legs, because the pilot does not have to guess whether or not an obstacle protects their legs or learn to estimate their leg height to keep them protected- if you can just barely see over it in a Stormcrow you can shoot over it and your legs are protected, no exceptions.
The Timber Wolf is a short 'mech for a Heavy classification, at least once it's powered on. Like the Quickdraw, its height is not properly indicated in the 'mechbay- it 'crouches' while running or while shut down on the battlefield. However, where this effect slightly mitigates the inconvenient height of the Quickdraw, it **** an advantage of the Timber Wolf.
- The Timber Wolf is short and wide (when active, thanks to leg bending) compared to other Heavy 'mechs. While this is inconvenient for shooting around corners, a lot more of the game's shooting advantage positions relate to shooting over obstacles, so the 'wide' part is of no issue. Being short, however, is a major advantage. The reduced height of the chassis makes it much easier to find cover to protect one from fire.
- The Timber Wolf's legs are shielded in part by its arms. This, combined with the overall reduced height of the 'mech and the way the legs compact during a match, makes it exceptionally difficult to leg a Timber Wolf- comparable to trying to leg the slightly taller but equally broad and typically much less mobile Cataphract.
- While the majority of the Timber Wolf's torso is not the flat 'book' shape of the Stormcrow, it does have the broad flat shoulders when weapon mounts are used there, which allows it to perpetrate the same defense- twisting to vastly reduce the target area of the 'mech, and leaning forwards and down to soak fire on the rear panels that comes in from above.
Hitboxes
Both 'mechs have advantages in their hitboxes as well- specifically in the allocation of which portions of the 'mech are applied to which hitbox.
The Stormcrow, I feel, has the better hitbox deal, which would account significantly for the extreme difficulty of destroying the things. A merely decent pilot in a Stormcrow appears to be able to negate or withstand an amount of incoming fire that would put virtually any Heavy or Assault class 'mech into the scrapheap.
- The side torso hitboxes of the Stormcrow are positioned and shaped to cover both shoulders in their entirety from the side, as well as a portion of the projecting center torso area. On its own this isn't too bad- surely it's alright to be able to soak damage coming in from the side on the side torso? Where this seems to become an issue is with the 'mech twisting its torso in combat. The overall shape of the 'mech means that any fire coming in on the upper third of the torso when it twists has absolutely no chance of hitting the center torso, unlike with other flat-torso 'mechs like the Blackjack or Awesome, whose center torsos stick out enough to still take fire at any height. Even at the center of the 'mech's torso, twisting reduces the center torso to less than a third of the 'mech's thickness, forcing pilots to aim to the side. The torso projection near the bottom of the Stormcrow's body only makes things worse in this regard, as torso twisting literally swings the center torso so far out to the side that a pilot firing on the 'Crow has to predict which direction the Stormcrow is going to twist if they want to have any chance of hitting the center torso.
- The leg hitboxes do not encompass the entire hip. In most situations this would be a vulnerability for a 'mech, allowing its center torso to take fire while it is twisted away. However, for a 'mech whose center torso rarely takes fire anyways thanks to its twist advantage, this instead provides added protection- an enemy who is firing on the legs will wind up dealing incidental damage to the center torso that is taken away from their attempt to leg the machine, and an enemy with the firepower to take out the center torso is likely to be a taller 'mech- in which case the positioning of the arms and torso projection on the Stormcrow, combined with the relatively small size of its hips, make this peculiarity of the hitboxes difficult or impossible to take advantage of.
- Finally, the side torso hitboxes are shaped almost perfectly to match the shape of the 'mech's arms. This means that a twisting 'Crow has even more shielding protecting its side torso components, further improving the value of torso twisting over the other advantages the 'mech already has.
The Timber Wolf has other hitbox advantages that, while not as blatantly strong as those of the Stormcrow, greatly contribute to its durability, particularly in skilled hands.
- The Timber Wolf's side torsos run irregularly up the center torso along the projecting front of the 'mech. As with the Catapult and Raven, this makes it very difficult for someone firing on the Timber Wolf's main body to actually select their targeted component and, as with the Catapult and Raven, this contributes to the durability of the 'mech.
- As with the original Cataphract hit boxes, the torso hitboxes extend onto what, visually, appears to be the shoulder of the arm. This, combined with the spindly, wide-slung shape of the arms, makes it very unlikely for shots to even hit Timber Wolf arms, excepting when an enemy is trying to shoot the thing in the legs. Given the frailty of 'mech arms compared to other components and the selection of arm hardpoints in the Timber Wolf, this gives the 'mech an advantage in close combat.
- The positioning of the side torso panels along the projecting front makes it very easy for the 'mech to spread damage by torso twisting in combat. I have seen, with relatively little twisting, a Timber Wolf with a bright red armorless center torso take raking laser fire from an enemy in front of it for more than a few volleys without falling thanks to this, soaking damage with its still-armored center torsos.
Base Capability
In this case, I'm talking about the abilities of the 'mech that are not derived from weapons mounts, omni-pods, or quirks.
The Stormcrow really shines here, particularly by abusing its already nice collusion of the abilities above.
- The torso twist of the Stormcrow is 130 degrees. In the Inner Sphere, only two 'mechs get this as well- the Griffin and the Locust (who varies from 125 to 135). The only other Clan 'mech that's really comparable is the Ice Ferret with its consistent 135. Of the other 'mechs with comparable (120 degree plus) torso twist ranges, only the Jenner and Cicada approach the Stormcrow's degree of twist-friendliness in terms of arm and side torso protection, though both have glaring issues (the Jenner's center torso sticking way the heck out in front, and the Cicada having such long legs that they're basically impossible to protect.) Combining a torso twist friendly structure with torso twist friendly hitboxes -and- the ability to twist farther than nearly everything else grants the Stormcrow a degree of durability that is, frankly, kind of ridiculous.
- The Stormcrow has a very beneficial base for loading things into it. It has 29 critical hit slots free after base equipment- up to 33 if hands or lower arms are removed- and even when it mounts maximum armor, it can carry just shy of 23 tonnes of equipment.
- Just in case its ability to twist nearly 180 degrees once Elited (+20% twist range gives it 156 degree torso twist) wasn't enough to let it target enemies, the Stormcrow can also mount lower arms (hands grant even more lateral motion but aren't actually needed at this point), making it impossible to escape the thing's target locks or arm weapons in close combat. This boosts most importantly the power of Streak missiles, particularly against faster 'mechs, to ridiculous levels, and makes multi-layer ECM or very large numbers of AMSes the only solution for a light or medium 'mech that doesn't want to be torn apart on contact with a Stormcrow carrying significant Streak missiles.
The Timber Wolf, on the other hand, has relatively minor points here.
- The Timber Wolf has a fairly good base for loading equipment. While it only has enough mass remaining for 27 tonnes of equipment and a spare machine gun, it already has five extra double heat sinks in it thanks to the 375-rating engine, and 31 free critical hit slots- 33 if the lower arm actuators are pulled out.
- The Timber Wolf is fast for its weight. With its favorable hitboxes and shape, the XL engine isn't too much of a risk either, even compared to other Clan XL engines.
Omnipods and Weapon Hardpoints
I consider 'Omnipods' and 'Weapon Hardpoints' to be separate things. When I mention an omnipod, I'm talking about how many and what variety of weapons and certain equipment the 'mech in question can mount in that component. When I mention a hardpoint, I'm talking about where on the frame of the 'mech a given weapon is mounted. So, for instance, when I say that the Kit Fox has good ballistic hardpoints, I'm referring to their position on the high shoulders of a machine, but when I say it has a good ECM omnipod, I mean that the right arm omnipod that grants the ECM hardpoint provides a good set of equipment mounts.
The Stormcrow continues to shine here- not quite as brightly as the Timber Wolf, but that's largely because the Stormcrow's other qualities mean that several of its omnipods simply matter less.
- The Stormcrow's torso hardpoints are excellent. Everything mounted in the center torso is mounted close in and above the cockpit. Remembering that the Stormcrow has an advantage when peeking already, it now has the further advantage of being able to shoot over everything it can see over with its torso mounts.
- The Stormcrow's torso omnipods are excellent. There is literally nothing you can do to a Stormcrow that will reduce its fantastic torso twist range, and the majority of the torso omnipods actually increase the speed with which it twists, making it vastly easier to benefit from its twist-friendly... uh.... absolutely everything.
- On the downside, the Stormcrow's only ballistic omnipods are on its left arm. Given Clan tech, this isn't much of a downside, but it does reduce options a little bit.
- Actually, Stormcrow arm omnipods largely don't matter in comparison. The pods for the torso provide enough or plenty (depending on whether the 2M left torso is taken or not) hardpoints that are mounted higher, and the incredible twist range on the Stormcrow means that the only reason to mount a weapon in its arm is for better vertical range- and the Stormcrow already has pretty good vertical range on the torso anyways.
- The Stormcrow can mount a lot of Streak missile racks (mostly in the torso). Combining this with its huge torso twist (and the potential addition of arm range to find locks) makes it a bane to Light 'mechs and lighter Medium class 'mechs- and combining this further with the Clan Streak-6 makes it a devastating encounter for pretty much anything short of a high-durability Heavy.
- The Stormcrow can mount a Clan head weapon. This means you can have any energy weapon short of a Large Pulse Laser or an ERPPC and be guaranteed that if you're still playing, you've still got it.
- The Stormcrow can easily torso-boat energy weapons. Lots of hardpoint mounts, in an advantageous, difficult to hit area. That 6E right arm is obviated pretty much just by this.
- The Stormcrow can mount pretty much anything it cares about in the torso. Put together with the torso twisting advantages, the shielding arms, and the ability to minimize its profile, this means that it's not only able to soak or appear to soak far more damage than anticipated, it can also retain the majority of its weapons through nearly the whole process.
The Timber Wolf gets its greatest benefits here, in the form of combined flexibility and some odd off-advantages. Most of the benefit the Timber Wolf gets comes from the omnipod system itself, thanks to the sheer variety of weapon mounts available to the machine.
- The Timber Wolf has a jump capable variant that mounts jets in all three torso locations. Despite the fixing of the jets into the omnipods, this means that it is very easy for any Timber Wolf to get the terrain-crossing advantage of just one or two jump jets without making much of a sacrifice. This is further compounded by the fact that the side torso omnipods that grant jump jets provide a more flexible set of hardpoints than most other omnipods- particularly the Right Torso S omnipod, which combines the hardpoints of all the other Right Torso omnipods.
- Speaking of torso omnipods and hardpoints, how about those hardpoints? Lots of nice high mounts for the most important weapons. High mount streak missiles or LRM racks with a minimal impact on the 'mechs appearance (and that help to shield the upper center torso) and now the new Left Torso omnipod that grants a set of high-mount energy hardpoints for sniping with, where previous side torso energy hardpoints on the 'mech were mounted at or below cockpit level.
- When it comes to overall flexibility, the Timber Wolf is pretty much king. Energy and ballistic mounts anywhere on the 'mech that you want them, and while missiles are torso-only, you can pick which side they're on. There really aren't any other Clan 'mechs with this kind of hardpoint flexibility in terms of what goes where. The Cauldron Born will be the first other 'mech to compete on this ground, actually.
Strictly Better Stormcrow
The Stormcrow, to sum up, has a strong set of advantages not because any one of them is excessive, but because they are found together on one 'mech.
With fantastic torso twist range and a tendency to high torso twist speed, the Stormcrow can easily use its well-placed and unimportant arms to shield its side torsos while providing a narrow profile to enemy fire and twisting back for bursts of weapons fire that come in from above or at the level of its cockpit. This in turn allows it to shield its legs, the only part that don't benefit from the torso twisting, behind obstacles even as minor as dips in the terrain. This same twist range and speed makes it difficult to get the jump on a Stormcrow as well.
Light 'mechs don't provide a solution here either- between the large Streak racks it can easily mount, the ability to mount Lower Arm actuators regardless of its main armament, and its huge torso twist, Stormcrows are light 'mech deathtraps.
This gives the Stormcrow, overall, a huge advantage in both durability and offense at the same time.
The specific advantages of the Stormcrow give me certain inclinations to what would make good adjustments for it.
I Would Suggest:
- Reduce the base torso twist range of the Stormcrow. Not a huge amount, maybe 10-15 degrees. The current torso twist makes it literally impossible for a light 'mech to actually escape Streak missile locks from the 'crow, which is not something it needs stacked onto its other advantages.
- Remove the torso twist speed quirks from the torso sections that have them and apply minor (-5% or less, maybe -7.5%) twist speed quirks to the torso sections that didn't already have quirks. This would make it just a touch more difficult to soak as much damage with the Stormcrow, and might actually make torso omnipod selection matter for purposes of soaking damage.
- Alternately to the last point, reduce side torso and arm durability. I'd prefer not to suggest this, but it is an option. Probably should be avoided if possible.
- Adjust the side torso hitboxes, particularly around the torso projection. Not sure how exactly, but making them a less-perfect match for the arm shape would be a decent start, as would anything that makes the center torso a little easier to hit when trying to shoot it. Not a -lot- easier, they should still reach out along at least part of the projection, but enough to matter.
Hungry Like The Wolf
I wouldn't say the Timber Wolf needs a whole -lot- of work. It has advantages- lots of flexibility, good speed, a huge default heat sinking capability, protected legs, a vertically small profile, easy damage spreading- but it doesn't seem as obviously out of line to me as the Stormcrow does. Its arms even give it 'holes' between them and the torso that enemy fire can safely pass through, which skilled players can abuse a bit.
It does soak damage quite well for a Heavy 'mech, and the fact that it can hide behind things that even lighter 'mechs can't use as cover is a bit stressing, but overall it's not too bad. Unlike the Stormcrow, it's not soaking damage considerably beyond its tonnage, nor does it have the ability to point in any direction by just torso twist.
I would suggest:
- Increase the size of the Timber Wolf. Not a lot, almost certainly less than 10% by linear proportion. Possibly restrict this to an increase in height. Making it just that little bit easier to hit in the first place would likely result in the thing falling over when it should fall over and not well before or noticeably after.
I reserve the right to change my mind about any or all of this, because new information can and should change perceptions! No point to opening something to discussion if you're not willing to actually listen to what people are saying, yeah?
Be well, eat delicious [insert food of choice here], and have fun blowin' up robutts.
-QKD-CR0
Addendum, May 19, 2015:
What makes the Stormcrow strongest? Its combination of hitboxes and agility. The ability to mount loads of Streaks or considerable energy weapons help, but those mostly become as strong as they are from its agility.
What isn't getting touched at all? Its hitboxes and agility.
Understand, nobody has been complaining about the firepower of the Stormcrow. Nobody anywhere I've been able to find, at least. The weapons load itself is not an issue unless you want to get into how dangerous large Streak SRM racks are for Light 'mechs to contend with.
The majority of praise for and objections to the Stormcrow center around its shape, hitboxes, and absurd torso twisting capability.
And now it's got.... laser duration and refire rate penalties?
The Stormcrow has never had anything approaching issues with keeping its lasers on target, requiring 5-15% more time is not going to do anything worth doing to the 'mech. Particularly not with the long durations on Clan lasers to begin with. This is a wrong move.
I can see the idea here- 'if it has to stay on target longer, it won't be able to twist away as often or as quickly, so damage will spread less'. That's a nice idea. But it doesn't do anything at all about any Stormcrows taking SRMs and Streak SRMs as their primary weapons loadout (or LRMs, but that's pretty much not an issue). So rather than curbing the whole problem posed by the 'mech, only certain builds of Stormcrow are getting reduced in capability.
I know I'm not the only one that sees this as a misstep. I can't be. It's too obvious.
As for the Timber Wolf..... again, laser weapon hits. Why? I certainly don't recall saying to myself 'Man, that T-wolf is spamming too much laser too easily, that's messed up.' I recall saying that about the Stalker 4N, but not about the Timber Wolf. I've seen enough 4xSRM-6 Wolves and other flexible insanity to not be bothered by laser weapons specifically on the 'mech. Where did this come from, and why is it here?
Once more the issue with the 'mech is not about its weapons or the use of specific weapons. That issue is limited to the array of Inner Sphere 'mechs that have hideously overquirked weapons for roughly double (sometimes better) damage output or positively hilarious distortions of range or heat. And those can easily be curbed by reducing the strength of the overquirks. (You must rise up and depose this tyrannical overquirk! Throw down the meta and build the 'mech you want, not the 'mech you are told to want! .....I feel like a rebel.)
Instead of addressing the actual strengths of the 'mech (favorable shaping and hitboxes combined with agility and, on a lesser note, one specific left torso omnipod with silly energy mounts) the T-Wolf's ability to use lasers is taking a hit.
Why?
Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 19 May 2015 - 09:00 AM.
