421 replies to this topic

[IlKhan Prepaid Kerensky]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

This is taking a lot of joy out of the concept of CW. Do you really think even the US military could drop that many art strikes that fast one after the other?

[Triordinant]

Artillery and air strikes were created as a cbill sink for people to waste cbills on so they'd be more likely to buy MC. That's the only reason they're in the game at all.

[Surn]

This.....is.....CW (kick)

[Tarogato]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 02:31 AM, said:

This is significantly insane that remote outposts in the star cluster would actually be able to setup shop for a 48 strike count.

If each jet carried the carried enough payload to make six bombing passes, suddenly you realise we'd only need a maximum of eight jets altogether.

With artillery, six shells are delivered in quick succession, (ten with the Improved upgrade). Assume one shell per artillery piece - you only need 6-10 artillery units to cover an entire match. Each artillery unit only needs to carry 48 rounds of ammunition and make each reload in one minute or less to make the next strike.

If you find this absurd... then I don't know what more to say.

[B0oN]

If I remember my DCS A10 correctly I could bring about a quarter of a teams strike-ordnance (12) ... with laserguided precision from a few nautical miles away with one (!) aircraft .
If you find that already appalling you wouldn´t really wanna know what the U.S. Navy IS able to do in groundbombardments from a single fully stuffed carrier deck .

Hmmm, good thing Arti and Airstrikes are unguided and static ... imagine the fun to be had if they were upgraded to Tomahawks^^

[Insects]

An improved strike is total of 350 dmg isnt it?

AC20 amo is 140 dmg per ton so a strike is 2.5 ton or less, 120 ton of munitions for an entire round.

Each dropship brings in 400 non of mechs.
Kind of silly that they dont just drop 400 tons of bombs on the enemys heads instead of stompy mechs, but anyway 48 strikes is nothing compared with dropship capacitys and there is no reason they couldn't do it.

[FatYak]

If people would use that VOIP that we all whinged and bitched about the game needing, it might help people to tell their teammates when a strike is incoming it might be less of a problem.

Edited by FatYak, 09 May 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[Mystere]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

Stop The Strike Meta

What strike "meta"? Do you even know what the word means?

Besides in MWO, it's just a psychological weapon. And obviously it is working because you just wrote a post about it.

[Mystere]

aniviron, on 09 May 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

Well, you could start by making the artillery/airstrike actually take time to arrive.

Right now it's 350 damage with unlimited range, no tonnage cost, no heat, and no crit slots, and it takes about twice as long as an ER PPC to arrive at 2km distance. That's WAY too fast.

All the defenders of arty/strike spam will say "Well the game needs it to break up blobs." I disagree, flanking and pincers do the trick quite nicely. However, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the game does need arty/air to accomplish this. It takes just a few seconds between placing the strike and the impact, and indeed it happens so fast that the smoke doesn't even finish going off fully before the explosions start.
So make it take ~10-15 seconds before the explosions start to happen. That'll still be very effective at dislodging players and encouraging them to move, while giving players who are sufficiently mobile enough time to leave. This punishes players who are blobbed and entrenched, and makes it so that strikes aren't just spammed all the time against smaller groups or single targets, or large but mobile groups.

On that note, the signaling needs to be fixed. It is so so SO easy to drop smoke high on a pillar or wall above someone, under a tunnel below them, or around the corner from them and wind up hitting them with almost all the shells while perfectly concealing the smoke.

10-15 seconds? That giant red smoke is extremely visible, except for those with absolutely zero situational awareness. Your "suggestion" makes them ineffective if not outright useless, unless of course that is your actual intent.

Just require TAG, while at the same time changing TAG such that it is invisible when the atmosphere is clear (i.e. TAG only shows when there is smoke, thick dust, rain, etc.). Suddenly stealth becomes even more important.

Edited by Mystere, 09 May 2015 - 05:32 AM.

[R Razor]

Restrict them so that they can only be called in by units with Command Console or the clan equivalent equipped. If the clans don't have an equivalent then make one and force them to equip it in order to use the strikes. Problem solved.

[CoffiNail]

This is all stravag conversations from over a year ago...

Word of advice, bring Arty/Air and UAV on every mech... Learn to heat manage so you do not need the funny cadet coolshot modules.

Keep your eyes open or join a team so they have give you additional eyes.

the current 4 second drop time for Air/Arty are such that unless you place it behind something so the enemy does not see or near the back of a group a lot of the damage is negated by the enemy moving position once someone yells smoke.

And yes, there was much QQing when you could bring Air AND Arty in to matches long long ago in a closed beta far away. Why do you think they limited it. You thin 48 in one CW is bad, think of how crazy it use to be for 24 in a single one mech drop.... both teams filled and you had 48 with both sides dropping stuff.

Also this is quick canon. How hard is it to assume that the Long Toms or NAGA mechs are near sectors, firing off their bombardments off map? That the Air Strike is a redirected Aerospace that is to assist ground pounders cousins at the commanders decisions. ASF move VERY fast. Ever see the ASF fly past to drop the Air Strike? Imagine it flying that fast all the time and it is not hard to see how it could redirect from two sectors over to drop a airstrike on your opponent.

ALSO THIS IS A GAME.

[B0oN]

Where did the good times with ASF go ... oh wait, that was another game, derpy me
Be thankful that we dont have to contend with tanks, elementals, VTOLs and Aerospacefighters all while driving mechs ^^

[rolly]

Oh nooooo. Not canon at all.

Artillery Bombardment
Air Strikes
Long Tom Artillery
Integrated Air Support - 1st Somerset Strikers
Mobile Arrow IV Missile Battery

"Nonsense" hmm? I'm sorry, you must be new to the entire genre or have a concept of modern (sci-fi/fictional) combined-arms warfare. Either way, welcome to the MW/BT/TT Universe: Where arty/air support comes readily available and quite handy.

Edited by rolly, 09 May 2015 - 06:17 AM.

[rolly]

Prepaid Lenin, on 09 May 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

Wait no fair. I call haxz I didn't even see a red plume of smoke before the barrage in any of that footage! ITS NONSENSE. ;p

[Monkey Lover]

I want to see them buffed back to 40dmg.

[SethAbercromby]

Speaking of how much artillery you need for 10 rounds, how about 2 to 3?

[krash27]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 02:50 AM, said:

Except its not just fine and such replies just let me know you do not actually play it or have some sort of working concept in your minds that attacking clans or remote IS posts CANNOT MOUNT 48 art/air strikes. I am sorry but this is not CW and it is really just 12vs12 x 4 with no actual sense of a "mission" They are being dropped right when people enter the gates/stay outside of the gates, in canyons. Hell people just strike to strike from what I see it does not matter if you are "moving" or not.

If you are a clan/IS drop ship going into some other territory, you will never have the ability to mount air/art strikes..where exactly are these massive batteries being places that they can strike faster than gauss/ppc???? And if it is a remote IS post, did the base commanders just have the batteries waiting and ready to go with unlimited shells to boot?/?

My problem again is not the existence or a few strikes here and there...that is strategy. My problem is with the fact that they are being dropped on every planet by any 12 man and there is no thought behind "hmm, does this planets current population/defense positions actually offer the defending/attacking team and OPTION to have it or is the planet really just some remote dust ball with nothing on it but the drop ships landing there for a battle?

LoL call this nonsense "just fine" and "cool" all ya want, it will never change the fact that its just that..nonsense.

It is called combined arms and many house units, merc units and yes even clan units use mobile artillery so it is canon.

In reality what commander would assault a planet without air support and arty support? It is well documented in the lore from all factions, Clan or Innersphere alike, that arty was a normal part of the invading force not to mention a staple for a defending force also as arty would be a cheap defensive measure compared to mechs etc.
Trying to annex a planet without support services such as that would be ridiculous.

Furthermore arty and airstrike seem to have been nerfed. I took a month long break ending about two or three weeks ago and I was just thinking the other day how arty and airstrikes are like being hit with nerf balls, they really don't seem to do all that much damage compared to before my break when iirc each shell was like being hit with an AC 40. I don't get that feeling now.

If you don't want to be hit by arty then find appropriate cover or stay mobile. Mobility is the key in MWO and in real world warfare.

As far as the smoke goes, be thankful we get that much warning, the reality is there wouldn't be any warning of an impending arty strike, all you would know is that the last thing to go through your mind was your arse hole when the shells hit.
It can be frustrating I agree, but its on the realistic side like it or not.



krash27

Edited by krash27, 09 May 2015 - 07:49 AM.

[Stealth Fox]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

This needs to stop, seriously.

I do not know how back woods you have to be to believe that an art or air strike one after the other is cannon to Mech Warrior but it is not by any stretch.

This is not CW already and to add to the problem, the 12 man drop teams are the ones who take most advantage of this silliness by having every damn mech equipped with at least one.

This is taking a lot of joy out of the concept of CW. Do you really think even the US military could drop that many art strikes that fast one after the other?

There is no strategy to it or implementation of it into battle. It is just strike, strike, strike, strike.

Is this ridiculous excuse for CW really all we are going to be left with? Just hardcore Meta drops and 48 x2 strikes a match?

This was obviously NOT thought of and needs to be addressed properly.

I hear you have never actually been in the military at all, if you have the ability to call in CAS or Arty with out civi casualities, you call in CAS (close air support.. I.E. Air Strikes) and Arty Strikes. I dare say that the amount of Arty strikes the mechs CAN do is vastly limited to what a competent military group is able to do.

aniviron, on 09 May 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

Well, you could start by making the artillery/airstrike actually take time to arrive.

Right now it's 350 damage with unlimited range, no tonnage cost, no heat, and no crit slots, and it takes about twice as long as an ER PPC to arrive at 2km distance. That's WAY too fast.

All the defenders of arty/strike spam will say "Well the game needs it to break up blobs." I disagree, flanking and pincers do the trick quite nicely.

I've seen Arty called in pretty damn fast, it's not that far fetched, specially if they already know the general area you'll be calling it in from and they are loaded ready to go. Also WHY THE HELL WOULD I HAVE TO HAVE WEIGHT OR HEAT FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO SHOOT!? All it costs someone in the real world is a Radio, A Map and maybe a compass if they dun have GPS, They don't have to carry around some magical weight or some bull crap, They can call in more then one, and they sure as hell dun have their rifle or machinegun suddenly get hot because a completely separate system is firing.

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 01:51 AM, said:

i have no problem with Art or Air strikes my problem is that they are not rolled into any sort of real scenario "Warfare". You should not be able to load up on them with each Mech. There needs to be some order to it. i suppose NONE of you were bitching when you were able to carry both into games right??

There needs to be an ACTUAL REASON you can call an art or air strike or that they become available, not just that your 12 man or whatever group has loaded each mech up with one so you can drop 48 of them. FORTY EIGHT STRIKES???? that is ridiculous by ANY standard.

There is no Role Warfare in the game in the first place, as for why every mech should be able to do it? .. You all have targeting computers, you all have radios, you all have Nav Units, thus, every mech.. has all it needs, to call in an air strike.

And no, I didn't cry when you could carry both in. Strikes are one of the few ways you could break up deathballing, and no ..sorry.. uhuh.. flanking or such does not break up a good death ball, they all just turn left or right and shoot you, and then keep marching.


All in all, I rarely see these things spammed like the OP is crying about. Nor have I seen any one ever really get hit by one unless they where totally distracted or stuck on something.

Edited by Seph MacLeod, 09 May 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[SICk Nick]

I don't see an issue w current arty/air strikes at all...they offer a great tactical benefit for either side.

I DO think however, there should be a destructible objective that could eliminate the use of these consumables that would be awesome.

Destroy both of the defenders long-tom cannons, and no more Arty. Destroy the Comms array and no more air strikes....just a thought.

[Clementine]

LOL Oh my Jesus. This is not about the US military trolling comment and yeah I can see the nays are +++ for leaving it broken and very few support for actually fixing the problem. Never mind the physics behind why 48 air/art strikes is not possible, yeah. Lets just keep playing meta warfare!

Thanks guys!