421 replies to this topic

[Ruhkil]

it does seem like the consumables are a bit too much. the issue is for people who have played a ton and have no use for cbills and can afford to waste them it gives them options above and beyond the casual or new player. for instance i do not play all that much but have been getting back into the game recently and after messing around with different load outs and performing poorly every once in whie because of builds that were good on paper but crappy in the field i am broke. if a bunch of other cbill poor pugs with me try to do a CW event vs a 12 man premade with a crap load of UAVS and arty strikes it feels like they have a huge leg up between the inherent advantages that being a 12 man brings and being able to totally shut down our ECM with UAVs and then strike our big mechs to death is it part of the game yes I don't feel like it should be though since its not about player skill just clicking random buttons

Edited by Ruhkil, 09 May 2015 - 08:20 AM.

[Mister Raven]

Irrelevant thread.

[Gladewolf]

....Well come up with some sort of semi workable argument. Don't use Real life....because you'll find that the US military uses a lot more air and arty strikes than you think(Do you even know what a Specter is?). Don't tell us the enemy can use 48, because that means they've had 36 mechs killed....Congrats! Is It the damage for no tonnage expended that bothers you?

[Mystere]

rolly, on 09 May 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

Oh nooooo. Not canon at all.

Artillery Bombardment
Air Strikes
Long Tom Artillery
Integrated Air Support - 1st Somerset Strikers
Mobile Arrow IV Missile Battery

"Nonsense" hmm? I'm sorry, you must be new to the entire genre or have a concept of modern (sci-fi/fictional) combined-arms warfare. Either way, welcome to the MW/BT/TT Universe: Where arty/air support comes readily available and quite handy.

Many people do not understand "combined arms" simply because they have not evolved beyond Napoleonic-era shoulder-to-shoulder fighting:

[Clementine]

The solution is so obvious to the story line that it is fascinating most cannot comprehend what I am saying.

There has to be an actual OBJECTIVE and RESOURCES available to either attacking/defending team. In other words, You run our of LRM ammo, Autocannoin ammo, But the bases you are at either defending or attacking just have unlimited air/art strike capability?

If this "combined arms" (LOL) is to be realized then you CANNOT make an argument that a drop ship that is ALREADY maxed out from tonnage by drop can also carry 48 potential air/art strikes for attacking team. If I am clan wolf invading a remote IS star cluster..where did I place the batteries on the map if the point is to DESTROY THE ORBITAL CANON THAT IS PREVENTING MY FORCES FROM LANDING EN MASS.

This was also discussed in the actual Mech Warrior games from 2-3. You cannot simply have your cake and eat it too, well, I guess you can if you are this crowd, but in the real world, **** has to happen first before the other can proceed.

Fix it.

[Mystere]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

LOL Oh my Jesus. This is not about the US military trolling comment and yeah I can see the nays are +++ for leaving it broken and very few support for actually fixing the problem. Never mind the physics behind why 48 air/art strikes is not possible, yeah. Lets just keep playing meta warfare!

Thanks guys!

Pleas show me this "physics" of yours. "Physics" is probably another word whose meaning you do not understand, just like "meta".

[Stealth Fox]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

LOL Oh my Jesus. This is not about the US military trolling comment and yeah I can see the nays are +++ for leaving it broken and very few support for actually fixing the problem. Never mind the physics behind why 48 air/art strikes is not possible, yeah. Lets just keep playing meta warfare!

Thanks guys!

You never said anything about fixing the problem, you are just having a cow about a thing that is not really a problem any more, the strikes are weak enough now where they really only do their max damage if you stand there like a dingus.

Oh.. and .. you used the word 'Physics" wrong, And seem to not understand that 48 Air Strikes is totally possible and doable in the better part of a morning for any sort of military with air power.

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

The solution is so obvious to the story line that it is fascinating most cannot comprehend what I am saying.

There has to be an actual OBJECTIVE and RESOURCES available to either attacking/defending team. In other words, You run our of LRM ammo, Autocannoin ammo, But the bases you are at either defending or attacking just have unlimited air/art strike capability?

If this "combined arms" (LOL) is to be realized then you CANNOT make an argument that a drop ship that is ALREADY maxed out from tonnage by drop can also carry 48 potential air/art strikes for attacking team. If I am clan wolf invading a remote IS star cluster..where did I place the batteries on the map if the point is to DESTROY THE ORBITAL CANON THAT IS PREVENTING MY FORCES FROM LANDING EN MASS.

This was also discussed in the actual Mech Warrior games from 2-3. You cannot simply have your cake and eat it too, well, I guess you can if you are this crowd, but in the real world, **** has to happen first before the other can proceed.

Fix it.

And yet you seem to Ignore the fact that ..Drop Ships don't have to carry AeroSPACE Fighters or Bombers, As a matter of fact, The Fighters might.. *GASP* Escort the Drop Ships INTO THE ATMOSPHERE! HOLY SHEEP SH*T BATMAN!

Yeah, Mechs run out of LRMS, Mechs run out of AutoCannons, Troops and tanks run out of shells and rounds, but you know what? Fighters and Strike bombers ...can do this amazing thing..where they drop their load, and trade out with another craft, while they go and reload.. *DOUBLE GASP!* It's almost like there would be a system employed and some sort of Space Cruiser or BattleShip that would be tasked to handle this in an invasion or counter attack!!! OH MYYY GAAAAAAAAAWWWWD!!!!

Here's something else that might blow your mind, .. you know what? Air Strikes .. might come from Fighters, not on the Drop ship.. AAND.. AAND.. AAAAAND .. they might call in Arty.. from the main guns of the ships in high orbit like modern military does when it has a Naval ship with large guns on it.. Or maybe.. MAYBE .. specially designed strike craft called 'GUNSHIPS'

WELL LICK MY EYEBALL AND CALL ME UNCLE RIDLY!!

You're an idiot..

[Clementine]

y

Seph MacLeod, on 09 May 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

You never said anything about fixing the problem, you are just having a cow about a thing that is not really a problem any more, the strikes are weak enough now where they really only do their max damage if you stand there like a dingus.

Oh.. and .. you used the word 'Physics" wrong, And seem to not understand that 48 Air Strikes is totally possible and doable in the better part of a morning for any sort of military with air power.


And yet you seem to Ignore the fact that ..Drop Ships don't have to carry AeroSPACE Fighters or Bombers, As a matter of fact, The Fighters might.. *GASP* Escort the Drop Ships INTO THE ATMOSPHERE! HOLY SHEEP SH*T BATMAN!

Yeah, Mechs run out of LRMS, Mechs run out of AutoCannons, Troops and tanks run out of shells and rounds, but you know what? Fighters and Strike bombers ...can do this amazing thing..where they drop their load, and trade out with another craft, while they go and reload.. *DOUBLE GASP!* It's almost like there would be a system employed and some sort of Space Cruiser or BattleShip that would be tasked to handle this in an invasion or counter attack!!! OH MYYY GAAAAAAAAAWWWWD!!!!

Here's something else that might blow your mind, .. you know what? Air Strikes .. might come from Fighters, not on the Drop ship.. AAND.. AAND.. AAAAAND .. they might call in Arty.. from the main guns of the ships in high orbit like modern military does when it has a Naval ship with large guns on it.. Or maybe.. MAYBE .. specially designed strike craft called 'GUNSHIPS'

WELL LICK MY EYEBALL AND CALL ME UNCLE RIDLY!!

You're an idiot..

'

your rambling aside, everything you stated just negates the need to even play the game. By your logic we should just turn this into High powered Orbital make believe canon online and just nuke planets instead.

I am not an idiot, you are just a troll.

[Tarogato]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Never mind the physics behind why 48 air/art strikes is not possible, yeah.

Please explain the logistics behind this that in your mind make it impossible. Convince your audience.

Oh, and keep in mind this is 1,000 years in the future, so technology has some wiggle room. But for the sake of argument, at least try to explain why it would be impossible even with 21st century technology, let alone 31st. Oh, and how all the past real-world scenarios that have occurred are completely invalid because you choose to ignore the fact that they existed.

Edited by Tarogato, 09 May 2015 - 09:13 AM.

[Stealth Fox]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

y
'

your rambling aside, everything you stated just negates the need to even play the game. By your logic we should just turn this into High powered Orbital make believe canon online and just nuke planets instead.

I am not an idiot, you are just a troll.

No, A troll is someone like NKVA, I just slapped you upside the face with the hard actual truth of how they should be MORE effective and took your platform of "REALISM PLZ" and smashed it into kindling in front of your face.

MW was always meant to be a Role Warfare game with Tanks, Aircraft, infantry, Support trucks n crap with it. Giant Stompy Robots are just the main focus because.. Giant Stompy Robots.

Instead of calling Nerfs for things that don't do much but kill heavily damaged mechs if you are lucky and moderately damaged if they are unlucky and a derp, how about you learn to watch for the red smoke, hit the throttle to get out of the way (never seen any one but a gimped and dying mech or a slow assault with armor to spare not be able to move out of the way) Get good at returning fire and not letting them drop them so effectively by constantly moving, Stop coming up with bullcrap strawman arguments of why it doesn't work, realize the circle and line to be hit by them is small already, and the upgrades only make them smaller, Research what you say instead of bawing about it on the internet, and have a nice day?

[Clementine]

Tarogato, on 09 May 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Please explain the logistics behind this that in your mind make it impossible. Convince your audience.

Oh, and keep in mind this is 1,000 years in the future, so technology has some wiggle room. But for the sake of argument, at least try to explain why it would be impossible even with 21st century technology, let alone 31st. Oh, and how all the past real-world scenarios that have occurred are completely invalid because you choose to ignore the fact that they existed.

already explained. Thread above.

[Amsro]

Solution = Don't camp

Next issue...

[Clementine]

Seph MacLeod, on 09 May 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

No, A troll is someone like NKVA, I just slapped you upside the face with the hard actual truth of how they should be MORE effective and took your platform of "REALISM PLZ" and smashed it into kindling in front of your face.

MW was always meant to be a Role Warfare game with Tanks, Aircraft, infantry, Support trucks n crap with it. Giant Stompy Robots are just the main focus because.. Giant Stompy Robots.

Instead of calling Nerfs for things that don't do much but kill heavily damaged mechs if you are lucky and moderately damaged if they are unlucky and a derp, how about you learn to watch for the red smoke, hit the throttle to get out of the way (never seen any one but a gimped and dying mech or a slow assault with armor to spare not be able to move out of the way) Get good at returning fire and not letting them drop them so effectively by constantly moving, Stop coming up with bullcrap strawman arguments of why it doesn't work, realize the circle and line to be hit by them is small already, and the upgrades only make them smaller, Research what you say instead of bawing about it on the internet, and have a nice day?

except there is no "role" you are playing when you have 48 air/art strikes. That is just meta warfare. Remote star system planets are not going to have the ability to have art batteries and laying around for you to use when defending and more importantly, if the objective is to destroy the orbital cannon or base before your forces can land..WHERE DID THE BATTERIES COME FROM THEN>???? and if they were there all along, then why not just art strike the base/cannon to death??? Why even have Mechs???

Amsro, on 09 May 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

Solution = Don't camp

Next issue...

you obviously dont play the game. People are dropping these things regardless of camping or not.

[Uncle Totty]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

except there is no "role" you are playing when you have 48 air/art strikes. That is just meta warfare. Remote star system planets are not going to have the ability to have art batteries and laying around for you to use when defending and more importantly, if the objective is to destroy the orbital cannon or base before your forces can land..WHERE DID THE BATTERIES COME FROM THEN>???? and if they were there all along, then why not just art strike the base/cannon to death??? Why even have Mechs???



you obviously dont play the game. People are dropping these things regardless of camping or not.

Not even a "Flush them out." role?

[rolly]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

LOL Oh my Jesus. This is not about the US military trolling comment and yeah I can see the nays are +++ for leaving it broken and very few support for actually fixing the problem. Never mind the physics behind why 48 air/art strikes is not possible, yeah. Lets just keep playing meta warfare!

Thanks guys!

Its true that ignorance is a problem. You can't fix ignorance. They have no patch for that.

[FireDog]

Fundamental rule against all forms of artillery and air strike.... do not bunch up... especially in coke points. This axiom has been real world since the days of the ballista and catapult let alone gunpowder charged cannons. I do not see it as a game issue especially if cost a player 40k or MC a pop. Its really one of the few things balancing the "blue-ball" game mode. And if you want historic references its one of the tools the Roman used to beat the Greek style phalax, or in the horse artillery days, one used to break infantry formed in square.

Edited by FireDog, 09 May 2015 - 09:22 AM.

[Clementine]

Nathan K, on 09 May 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

Not even a "Flush them out." role?

I am going to start recording this BS in the game from now on to show exactly what is happening. I do not know what you mean "flush out" these stupid matches are only 30 minutes long anyway and so the idea of strategy is out the window after the 1st or 2nd wave usually. The point is that they are being dropped like CANDY and there needs to be scenario games, not meta warfare games. Like X base only has so many art/air strike capabilities and the attacking force can only bring x amount of art/air due to limitations of where you are going/how far/weight/fuel, etc.

Art/Air strikes dont ruin the game for me, they make me LAUGH at the 12 man groups that know full well they are taking complete advantage of the situation and will drop them on every mech in site regardless of standing still or not.

[Stealth Fox]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

already explained. Thread above.

Yes yes, Longer times to impact, Never mind the 7 second warning and the big "GTFO" smoke signal, Heat to mechs for doing it and weight to mechs for CALLING IN A RADIO COMMAND! Real wieners of ideas there.

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

except there is no "role" you are playing when you have 48 air/art strikes. That is just meta warfare. Remote star system planets are not going to have the ability to have art batteries and laying around for you to use when defending and more importantly, if the objective is to destroy the orbital cannon or base before your forces can land..WHERE DID THE BATTERIES COME FROM THEN>???? and if they were there all along, then why not just art strike the base/cannon to death??? Why even have Mechs???

No, there is no "Role Warfare bit it is hardly a problem of the Strikes, It is PGI's problem with half assing Information Warfare, screwing scouts and letting things slip back into "Alphavill" which..is the TRUE meta btw.

Now.. I know I explained, if smaller drop ships could be landing, then small gunships and fighter jets could break through.. ..OH MY GOD, LIKE THEY DO IN REAL LIFE WITH ANTI AIR NETS!....and drop strikes. Also .. Orbital Bombardment. I knwo this might be hard for you to grasp, but sh8t don't have to be in range of defenses to attack, and sh8t dun have to fly down in the drop ships.

Quote

you obviously dont play the game. People are dropping these things regardless of camping or not.

Then they should not be hitting you and causing a problem if you are moving, thus making them waste C-bills and you walking away with "cool guys don't look at explosions" going on .. problem?

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

Art/Air strikes dont ruin the game for me, they make me LAUGH at the 12 man groups that know full well they are taking complete advantage of the situation and will drop them on every mech in site regardless of standing still or not.

Then WHY the hell ARE YOU B8TCHING? \=<

[Tarogato]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

already explained. Thread above.

'k, where?

Maybe you mean this:

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

If this "combined arms" (LOL) is to be realized then you CANNOT make an argument that a drop ship that is ALREADY maxed out from tonnage by drop can also carry 48 potential air/art strikes for attacking team. If I am clan wolf invading a remote IS star cluster..where did I place the batteries on the map if the point is to DESTROY THE ORBITAL CANON THAT IS PREVENTING MY FORCES FROM LANDING EN MASS.

Who said dropships are maxed for tonnage? Leopard dropships can carry any four mechs and two aerospace fighters. That could be four 100-tonners and two fighters armed with bombs. It takes 12 dropships to supply all 48 mechs to the battlefield, and if they each bring two aerospace, you have 24 bombers and each one only needs to carry the ammunition to make two bombing runs.

And for the same reason that Leopards can drop off mechs, who's to say they can't drop off artillery units? Again, the most you'd need is 10 units to cover a battlefield. "But there's an orbital canon preventing them from being dropped off!" ... so how did the Leopards get in, then? Perhaps because they're so fast and small they can slip through the defenses, while Union and Overlord dropships cannot. Thus, the Leopards drop off mechs, aerotech, and ground forces sufficient enough to disable an orbital cannon so that their larger and slower dropships can fly in to deploy the main forces.

I don't see any problem with this.

[Clementine]

Seph MacLeod, on 09 May 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Yes yes, Longer times to impact, Never mind the 7 second warning and the big "GTFO" smoke signal, Heat to mechs for doing it and weight to mechs for CALLING IN A RADIO COMMAND! Real wieners of ideas there.




No, there is no "Role Warfare bit it is hardly a problem of the Strikes, It is PGI's problem with half assing Information Warfare, screwing scouts and letting things slip back into "Alphavill" which..is the TRUE meta btw.

Now.. I know I explained, if smaller drop ships could be landing, then small gunships and fighter jets could break through.. ..OH MY GOD, LIKE THEY DO IN REAL LIFE WITH ANTI AIR NETS!....and drop strikes. Also .. Orbital Bombardment. I knwo this might be hard for you to grasp, but sh8t don't have to be in range of defenses to attack, and sh8t dun have to fly down in the drop ships.



Then they should not be hitting you and causing a problem if you are moving, thus making them waste C-bills and you walking away with "cool guys don't look at explosions" going on .. problem?


Then WHY the hell ARE YOU B8TCHING? \=<

no one is bitching, i think YOU are bitching, I am trying to get the game to have some real life actual type scenarios to it and not just letting you kids spam your bs over and over.