421 replies to this topic

[Clementine]

This needs to stop, seriously.

I do not know how back woods you have to be to believe that an art or air strike one after the other is cannon to Mech Warrior but it is not by any stretch.

This is not CW already and to add to the problem, the 12 man drop teams are the ones who take most advantage of this silliness by having every damn mech equipped with at least one.

This is taking a lot of joy out of the concept of CW. Do you really think even the US military could drop that many art strikes that fast one after the other?

There is no strategy to it or implementation of it into battle. It is just strike, strike, strike, strike.

Is this ridiculous excuse for CW really all we are going to be left with? Just hardcore Meta drops and 48 x2 strikes a match?

This was obviously NOT thought of and needs to be addressed properly.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

So you made your case... what are your solutions or are you just here to vent?

[anonymous161]

Who cares.

[Spleenslitta]

Looks at OP post and thinks: I'm so glad i treat CW like it's a knee deep puddle of puke. I need to stay even further away from it in the future.

[zudukai]

i fear not the weak enemy air strike, the enemy fears my devastating alpha strike.

learn your spacing, learn when to reposition or take another shot, you need to read and observe.

your situational awareness should include watching for smoke, background mechs, what and who is damaged in whatever way you can take advantage of.

do you drive a car? you should be watching your minimap nearly twice as often as you check your mirrors, i feel this applies to any video game that has one...

[aniviron]

Daisu Saikoro, on 09 May 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

So you made your case... what are your solutions or are you just here to vent?

Well, you could start by making the artillery/airstrike actually take time to arrive.

Right now it's 350 damage with unlimited range, no tonnage cost, no heat, and no crit slots, and it takes about twice as long as an ER PPC to arrive at 2km distance. That's WAY too fast.

All the defenders of arty/strike spam will say "Well the game needs it to break up blobs." I disagree, flanking and pincers do the trick quite nicely. However, for the sake of argument, let's assume that the game does need arty/air to accomplish this. It takes just a few seconds between placing the strike and the impact, and indeed it happens so fast that the smoke doesn't even finish going off fully before the explosions start.
So make it take ~10-15 seconds before the explosions start to happen. That'll still be very effective at dislodging players and encouraging them to move, while giving players who are sufficiently mobile enough time to leave. This punishes players who are blobbed and entrenched, and makes it so that strikes aren't just spammed all the time against smaller groups or single targets, or large but mobile groups.

On that note, the signaling needs to be fixed. It is so so SO easy to drop smoke high on a pillar or wall above someone, under a tunnel below them, or around the corner from them and wind up hitting them with almost all the shells while perfectly concealing the smoke.

[ThisOneDiesALot]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

I do not know how back woods you have to be to believe that an art or air strike one after the other is cannon to Mech Warrior but it is not by any stretch.

soooo.... firestarters are very flamery in battletech lore as far as i know. and i almost don't know anything about the lore. however, do we have to expect a "stop 8 SPL firestarters" thread with the same opening?

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This is not CW already and to add to the problem, the 12 man drop teams are the ones who take most advantage of this silliness by having every damn mech equipped with at least one.

you can equip every damn mech with *exactly* one. and actually, this is exactly what every player should do especially when playing CW. a good placed air/arty will deal a lot of damage. and as far as i know, this game is about dealing damage to enemy mechs. well, i guess this is probably not canon, but this is how this game works.

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This is taking a lot of joy out of the concept of CW. Do you really think even the US military could drop that many art strikes that fast one after the other?

dude, the us military can drop like 100 or more NUKES one after another. they absolutely will have not the slightest problem fielding 12 artillery batteries if the circumstances requires it.

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There is no strategy to it or implementation of it into battle. It is just strike, strike, strike, strike.

there is a total strategy and implementation to it. it called: anti-camping! hey look... those guys are standing on each others feet out there in d3 in the chokepoint, they all bunched up. what can i do?? ah, right, i have strikes!!! -- hey look, they STILL bunched up there and don't move forward. what can my teammate do?? ah, right, he has stirkes!!! -- hey look, they still...

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Is this ridiculous excuse for CW really all we are going to be left with? Just hardcore Meta drops and 48 x2 strikes a match?

as i already said, its a max of 48 strikes if every mech brings one. and i don't see why they shouldn't.

[Clementine]

i have no problem with Art or Air strikes my problem is that they are not rolled into any sort of real scenario "Warfare". You should not be able to load up on them with each Mech. There needs to be some order to it. i suppose NONE of you were bitching when you were able to carry both into games right??

There needs to be an ACTUAL REASON you can call an art or air strike or that they become available, not just that your 12 man or whatever group has loaded each mech up with one so you can drop 48 of them. FORTY EIGHT STRIKES???? that is ridiculous by ANY standard.

[Insects]

Most people manage to get out of the way with 4 sec warning, especially when the team calls smoke.
10 seconds would take them pointless because even the least situationally aware will get out of the way in that time.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Spleenslitta, on 09 May 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

Looks at OP post and thinks: I'm so glad i treat CW like it's a knee deep puddle of puke. I need to stay even further away from it in the future.

Kinda unfortunate. Do you feel that way when you wake up in the morning and realize that life is pretty difficult as well?

[Insects]

The smoke is only there for the enemy's benefit to give them a fair chance of getting out of the way.
Really what is happening is more like a radio call to bomb C7 (with better coordinate resolution).

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 01:51 AM, said:

i have no problem with Art or Air strikes my problem is that they are not rolled into any sort of real scenario "Warfare". You should not be able to load up on them with each Mech. There needs to be some order to it. i suppose NONE of you were bitching when you were able to carry both into games right??

There needs to be an ACTUAL REASON you can call an art or air strike or that they become available, not just that your 12 man or whatever group has loaded each mech up with one so you can drop 48 of them. FORTY EIGHT STRIKES???? that is ridiculous by ANY standard.

You bandy about the word "need" a lot. Do you mean that you want?

It takes a lot to realize that just because you feel a certain way it may not extend to other people. I would find it interesting if they made it so only some mechs could take one type of strike while others take another. Or even if scout mechs got to carry them so that they have more role warfare value. But see, these are ideas to a solution that may not be a problem. I've come across 12 mans who spam arty, but what's to stop 12 pugs to carry them and keep an eye on the signal and drop them one right after the other.

I would be in the camp that would say I don't think they're a huge issue and I'd be perturbed if someone told me I couldn't carry them into a match, but eh. I probably also wouldn't care.

Anyway, perhaps it's time to take a moment away from the computer and reflect. There are, sadly, issues in the world and even in the game which seem to be much bigger problems :|

[Rogue Jedi]

it is extremely rare for me to take or cause much damage with a strike, even assault Mechs will usualy manage to scatter on seeing the smoke, yes prehaps 1 game in 100 I will manage to place a devastating strike or receive one but for me artillery/airstrike are more about forcing the enemy to move and area denial.

[SethAbercromby]

Strikes aren't really that strong unless you are unlucky enough to get a hit at point blank for full damage on one of your torsos/head.

Much like LRMs, most of the time they serve to soften up targets and to disperse the enemy formation a little. And also much like LRMs, the value of the strike depends on the timing, positioning and predicting of enemy actions in response to the smoke.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 09 May 2015 - 02:09 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Nah canon just came up with the long tom artillery piece, and airmechs, so don't go waving canon as justification to get rid of, off board artillery strikes.

Arty and airstrike spam is only effective when the lame people stand still, in canon mobility not hiding behind the corner of a building and pop shooting, is how you win.

Maybe PGI just want their game to be mobile and not dull like World of Tanks.

[Clementine]

This is significantly insane that remote outposts in the star cluster would actually be able to setup shop for a 48 strike count. I can only believe none of you actual play CW or pay attention to the art/air strike vomit that is taking place in 12 mans. That or it is easier to just pretend the problem does not exist when you utilize it yourself.

Sorry but you are wayyyyy wrong if you think that 48 strike/air capability is "just fine"

[C E Dwyer]

life in the fast lane

[Gagis]

It is just fine. Learn to move.

[Clementine]

Except its not just fine and such replies just let me know you do not actually play it or have some sort of working concept in your minds that attacking clans or remote IS posts CANNOT MOUNT 48 art/air strikes. I am sorry but this is not CW and it is really just 12vs12 x 4 with no actual sense of a "mission" They are being dropped right when people enter the gates/stay outside of the gates, in canyons. Hell people just strike to strike from what I see it does not matter if you are "moving" or not.

If you are a clan/IS drop ship going into some other territory, you will never have the ability to mount air/art strikes..where exactly are these massive batteries being places that they can strike faster than gauss/ppc???? And if it is a remote IS post, did the base commanders just have the batteries waiting and ready to go with unlimited shells to boot?/?

My problem again is not the existence or a few strikes here and there...that is strategy. My problem is with the fact that they are being dropped on every planet by any 12 man and there is no thought behind "hmm, does this planets current population/defense positions actually offer the defending/attacking team and OPTION to have it or is the planet really just some remote dust ball with nothing on it but the drop ships landing there for a battle?

LoL call this nonsense "just fine" and "cool" all ya want, it will never change the fact that its just that..nonsense.

[Insects]

Clementine, on 09 May 2015 - 02:31 AM, said:

This is significantly insane that remote outposts in the star cluster would actually be able to setup shop for a 48 strike count. I

Why not?
They dont seem to have any trouble delivering 12,000 tones on mechs.