8 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

2015-05-30 - Canyon Network - As per the norm I'm in my dual gauss, dual ER Large Laser King Crab.

As I begin to crest a canyon top, I see a UAV, draw a bead on it and fire TWO gauss into it. I get graphic indication on the UAV that I hit (the explosion graphic), BUT, my cursor doesn't turn red, and the UAV stays up after getting hit for 30 points. I immediately fire my ER LL's, again, seeing the graphic splash of the lasers indicating hit, but the cursor STILL stays "amber" (or whatever color that's supposed to be), HOWEVER, the UAV does go down AND I get the "UAV KILL" message at the bottom of my HUD, indicating that, yes indeed, I did actually kill the UAV.

Now, either that UAV had nearly 50 points HP, OR, you've still got a serious issue with dual gauss registering on targets properly.

This has been happening now for a LONG while, but I've waited until I could capture indisputable proof that, no other target, enemy, "blurring from enemy fire", no "movement", no "extreme range" damage decrease, et al, could be used as an excuse as to why what I saw isn't what it actually looks like.

Too many is the time that I've put dual gauss into an extremely red component and had NOTHING happen.

Here's a scenario where the object being fired at has only 10 HP, and it somehow survives a direct hit of 30hp, but dies after being hit with a direct hit of 16.

PLEASE fix this.

This is, in effect, an accidental stealth nerf of a weapon you've already saddled with an unreasonable nerf (charge time), making it the second slowest weapon in the game to fire.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 29 May 2015 - 11:52 PM.

[Tarogato]

To me it looks pretty likely that you missed the UAV with the dual gauss entirely. If you look really closely frame by frame, you'll see that the UAV drifted away (and you were moving as well) just as you were firing your shot and your range displayed as "∞". (yes, UAVs drift up and down a little bit, some people don't realise this)

But that doesn't explain why you still got the particle impact effect. That.. I'm afraid, makes no sense at all. Unless the hitbox for a gauss projectile (or the UAV itself, which is more likely) to detect for hitreg is a different size from the hitbox used to trigger the particle effects.

Alternatively, it may have been client-vs-server related. The server saw the UAV drift away just in time and didn't count the hit, but your game client saw it hit and triggered the particle.

Edited by Tarogato, 30 May 2015 - 01:09 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

The last explanation is the most plausible one; the evidence is more convincing if you hit a mech dead center with no damage registering. Now there's too much uncertainty to what exactly happened as the distance to the UAV does go to infinite a frame after you fire so I guess you missed.

And yes, the bobbing of UAVs is real and annoying. Except for my own UAV, then it is fantastic.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 30 May 2015 - 02:24 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Tarogato, on 30 May 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

To me it looks pretty likely that you missed the UAV with the dual gauss entirely. If you look really closely frame by frame, you'll see that the UAV drifted away (and you were moving as well) just as you were firing your shot and your range displayed as "∞". (yes, UAVs drift up and down a little bit, some people don't realise this)

But that doesn't explain why you still got the particle impact effect. That.. I'm afraid, makes no sense at all. Unless the hitbox for a gauss projectile (or the UAV itself, which is more likely) to detect for hitreg is a different size from the hitbox used to trigger the particle effects.

Alternatively, it may have been client-vs-server related. The server saw the UAV drift away just in time and didn't count the hit, but your game client saw it hit and triggered the particle.

I'm sorry you're wrong. I've shot enough UAVs to know that when you miss, you don't get the "splash", like I did in the vid. I hit it. Absolutely, dead on. It just didn't register for whatever reason.

Then I hit it with the lasers, again, dead on, no register flash from hitting, it BUT, the game says "Ok it dies" UAV kill.

Just because the range indicator change to infinity AFTER I let the shot go doesn't actually mean I missed. There is a 'travel time' required for gauss. It hit, that's why there was a "splash". You don't get splashes shooting at the "blank" sky (unless you're in HPG Relay, firing "near" the dish in the center).

This is a clear cut case of the game not applying gauss damage as it should, period.

I also stepped through this frame-by-frame to ensure there could be question.

You go ahead, go into game, get in Canyon Network, and shoot 10,000 gauss into the sky. If you can record a splash and I will acquiesce.

Since all hit registration is server side, you don't get "splash" until the game actually registers a hit.

This is CLEARLY a hit. Frame-by-frame the gauss STILL hit the UAV dead on, regardless of whether or not I moved a bit off the UAV after having fired...

The Great Unwashed, on 30 May 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

The last explanation is the most plausible one; the evidence is more convincing if you hit a mech dead center with no damage registering. Now there's too much uncertainty to what exactly happened as the distance to the UAV does go to infinite a frame after you fire so I guess you missed.

And yes, the bobbing of UAVs is real and annoying. Except for my own UAV, then it is fantastic.

Again, I hit it, it wasn't missed.

I've hit 'mech after 'mech without registration too, and either there's some mitigating factor like a near by 'mech, slight drop in frame rate, "too close" terrain, smoke obscuring the view, cockpit shake from my own 'mech taking damage, et al. I have been working for months to get clear "I'm by myself, not taking damage, no one else near me, no frame rate drops, no obvious lag, etc." recordings where no REASONABLE person can come up with a lame excuse to deflect the issue.

Go ahead frame by frame it yourselves, that gauss HITS the UAV.

You get damage splash, just no damage.

You don't get damage splash shooting the sky in Canyon Network.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 30 May 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[ShinVector]

Tarogato, on 30 May 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

Alternatively, it may have been client-vs-server related. The server saw the UAV drift away just in time and didn't count the hit, but your game client saw it hit and triggered the particle.

Probably this... It happens all the time when I try to take out UAVs with AC5s... It seems like they are taking a more damage then they should since you see all those AC5 explosions going off but apparently Server Auth sees it as misses.
Very annoying.. Yes !

It guess a simple explanation would be...
UAV hitbox visual hits is client side versus Mech visual hitbox hits which is server side.

Edit:
Eg.. I recall they had some issues with Turrets visual hits on its hitbox having the pass through/blackhole effect.
This was when they turn on server side auth visual hits for mechs a long time back.
Maybe UAV and Turret share the same hitbox type but big difference is UAVs moves up and down !

Simple fix would be to make UAV visual hithbox hits to be server auth since they Move.
Less of this false positive visual hit issues with ballistics.

Edited by ShinVector, 30 May 2015 - 08:09 AM.

[Ironwithin]

Somewhat unrelated question: Do pulse-lasers still damage UAVs way past their maximum range ? Been a while since I got to test it.

[Night Thastus]

I believe it is a "client vs server" issue. I've had the particle effect happen before on UAV's, but the guass missed, and didn't destroy them. I think particles are handled client-side but hit registration is handled server-side. You client for whatever reason thought that the guass was going to end up hitting it, (likely not calculating for the movement up and down of the UAV) and then the server actually saw it didn't.

This has happened to me before on CW.

[John80sk]

UAV's often lag a bit, and don't "die" until a couple seconds after you shoot them. Since you followed with lasers it might have already been dead beforehand. Also, it does look like you missed high. Sometimes you get "splash" even when missing, think it has to do with the visual projectile being bigger than the actual one.

[Dimento Graven]

Night Thastus, on 30 May 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

I believe it is a "client vs server" issue. I've had the particle effect happen before on UAV's, but the guass missed, and didn't destroy them. I think particles are handled client-side but hit registration is handled server-side. You client for whatever reason thought that the guass was going to end up hitting it, (likely not calculating for the movement up and down of the UAV) and then the server actually saw it didn't.

This has happened to me before on CW.

This makes zero sense. Hit registration and the feedback to activate damage splash is handled server side.

This is why you can have shots pass completely through an enemy 'mech never getting a damage splash. If the splash animation was COMPLETELY client side, then we'd NEVER be able to hit any target WITHOUT splash, regardless of damage registration.

That doesn't happen.

It's also why, when fighting high ping players you can shoot well ahead of your target, HIT the target, and STILL get damage splash, ON YOUR CLIENT SIDE you never actually HIT the target, your shots when through empty space, BUT, the server side registered the hit AND reported damage splash AND applied the damage.

No.

Sorry, I understand the misconception you're having but it is completely inconsistent with how the game operates in all other areas.

This is absolutely a hit/damage registration issue, HENCE, when the follow-up laser shot hit, it destroyed the UAV, BUT, I got no "red cursor" feedback indicating hit, I only got the "UAV KILL" text at the bottom of the HUD.

John80sk, on 30 May 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

UAV's often lag a bit, and don't "die" until a couple seconds after you shoot them. Since you followed with lasers it might have already been dead beforehand. Also, it does look like you missed high. Sometimes you get "splash" even when missing, think it has to do with the visual projectile being bigger than the actual one.

Nope, didn't miss.