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Inner Sphere Loyalist Units: What Motivates You?


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#1 Bubblewhip

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 04:50 PM

Greetings honorable Inner Sphere fighters,

As you can see I am a Clanner, specifically an Abtakha formally Davion now with CGBI.

With all the mercenaries running around I have great respect for loyalist units that stick with one faction through thick and thin, and do not switch sides based on how things are going for one side or the other.

As a Clansmen I understand why units in the clan dedicate themselves to one faction. It is a sense of culture, with strong beliefs about the cause, battle rituals, chivalry, and language.

I would like to know if it is the same case for units like SRoT and HHoD? Why do you guys stick to one faction?

Regardless of the reason, great respect to those who keep their loyalty no matter the faction.

<o

#2 Karl Marlow

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:58 PM

Space bacon

#3 Stoneblade

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:23 AM

Honestly, for myself it is because of the RolePlay my unit does. If it wasn't for being a Gatekeeper: I would be earning my free mechbays as a clanner. Then touring the IS with 1 month contracts. Until I had all I could get form the others: then I would settle for the Permanent contract of Liao. I am Liao at heart, but the free rewards make it difficult. PGI doesn't have any real bonus to being a Loyalist right now. That needs to change. But how? I don't know. When I have some thoughts or direction on it, I might give my ideas to PGI. I have a feeling I would have to troll them hourly to be heard though.

#4 Bubblewhip

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 09:11 AM

View PostStonade, on 03 June 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

Honestly, for myself it is because of the RolePlay my unit does. If it wasn't for being a Gatekeeper: I would be earning my free mechbays as a clanner. Then touring the IS with 1 month contracts. Until I had all I could get form the others: then I would settle for the Permanent contract of Liao. I am Liao at heart, but the free rewards make it difficult. PGI doesn't have any real bonus to being a Loyalist right now. That needs to change. But how? I don't know. When I have some thoughts or direction on it, I might give my ideas to PGI. I have a feeling I would have to troll them hourly to be heard though.
Interesting. If I may ask Liao is seen as one of the most hated and dislikeable factions in battletech. What makes you identify with them enough to stay loyalist?

#5 Stoneblade

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:15 PM

View PostBubblewhip, on 03 June 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Interesting. If I may ask Liao is seen as one of the most hated and dislikeable factions in battletech. What makes you identify with them enough to stay loyalist?


In table top games and RPGs it is more interesting when someone plays the bad guy in stead of some NPC bad guy. So, since Liao was the "bad guy" from the Stackpole-Davion out look: I decided to play them. After going through the lore, looking at all the things that made Liao "bad," you come to realize that they are fanatics and proud. They are the only Inner Sphrer House with a Literacy rate of 90%, the only house with public schools, and the only house that you Earn your citizenship in. The only house that a poor kid has the opportunity to become a local official through hard work. They are not held to a caste system. Yes, they have a propaganda machine like North Korea, but: everyone can read and speak at least three languages. They are needed to be the "Bad Guys" the "Boogy Men" of the Inner Sphere. If they weren't then who would be?

Kurita? I don't think so with America's fascination with Anime. Steiner? With how they are seen as the Mercantile Giant with purchased ranks. Marik? With how close Marik's lore acts like America, they could never be the "bad guys." That would leave us with Davion. Who started a war while all the leaders of the Inner Sphere were on Terra for a Wedding. Sounds like Pearl Harbor to me.

Then the lore brings in the Clans.
Jade Falcon are seen as the Liao of the Clans, yet are only slightly less hated than the Smoke Jaguars. Clan Wolf and Ghost Bear are seen in a kinder light. Especially after Ghost Bear and the FRR for the Dominion. With fluffy stories about how Ghost Bear won an FRR world that didn't have a garrison through and American Football game: how could you not like them?

So, Roleplay-wise, Liao is the best choice for me. I don't want to Roleplay some "White Knight" from Marik space, or a Space Samurai, or a "Kentucky Colonel," or some "Entitled Lordling." Nor would I want to be a Test Tube warrior. The lore is fascinating once you get into it, and of course you can nit-pick your own way through it.

so, check out http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page for more lore online. Or, you can pick up some other Battletech books.

#6 PraetorGix

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:40 PM

View PostStoneblade, on 03 June 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

I don't want to Roleplay some "White Knight" from Marik space, or a Space Samurai, or a "Kentucky Colonel," or some "Entitled Lordling." Nor would I want to be a Test Tube warrior.

So you decide to be a "space comunist". Careful with stereotypes dude, they tend to be a double-edged weapon.

#7 slide

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 08:29 PM

View PostBubblewhip, on 03 June 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Interesting. If I may ask Liao is seen as one of the most hated and dislikeable factions in battletech. What makes you identify with them enough to stay loyalist?


One of the more unique things about the BT universe is that the good guys and bad guys are more defined by what side you are on or your perpective at the time.

In many novels Liao and Kurita are the bad guys whilst Stiener and Davion are the good guys. Read another novel that focusses on Kurita and the bad guys will always be Davion or Stiener.

I think it is one of the more appealing aspects of the universe. Unlike Star Wars for example where good and bad is clear cut and even if you like the Empire you still know they are the bad guys.

#8 Bashfulsalamander

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 08:37 PM

This is the reason why i choose KuritaPosted Image

Edited by Bashfulsalamander, 03 June 2015 - 09:34 PM.


#9 Assault One

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 10:42 PM

Long post incoming!

Skye Ranger and longtime BT/MW fan here. I can only speak for myself but I stay as a loyalist due to the lore and role-playing said lore. All houses and factions have both good things and bad things about them. Gonna list just a few.

Davion
Good: New Avalon Institute of Science, generally rules well for the people's sake, <3 ballistic weapons
Bad: Written too much as a White Knight in some novels, too focused on military sometimes

Kurita
Good: Teddy (Theodore) Kurita is awesome, I like Japanese culture in general, focus on duty
Bad: Many high-ranking officers are too old-fashioned/too fixed on "Samura-ness," Kentares Massacre, Death to Mercenaries

Liao
Good: As was mentioned by Stoneblade, earning your citizenship, chances to advance, literacy rate
Bad: Batshit crazy rulers like Romano Liao

FRR:
Good: SPACE VIKINGS!
Bad: Not too much time spent as an independent nation, nearly gets obliterated by Clans early on

Marik:
Good: Freedom and diversity, manufactures the Awesome Mech(I love the Awesome)
Bad: Red tape, bureaucracy, and this monstrosity of a paint scheme:
Posted Image

Steiner
Good: Economy, loads of Assault Mechs, Kell Hounds (though they're technically Merc), Adam "information is ammunition" Steiner (yes I loved that old cartoon), the freaking Fafnir Mech
Bad: Social Generals, lack of mobility due to aforementioned loads of Assault Mechs, Katherine Steiner

#10 Koshirou

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 01:54 AM

Innere Sphere in general:
- I've written about this at length elsewhere. The Clans are a juvenile power fantasy for armchair fascists. And they are to an alarming degree populated by fans who talk about their "cause, battle rituals, chivalry, and language" without any sense of irony. Add to that that their flat, uninteresting, football team mascot type characteristics, and you have it.

Inside the IS:
- Marik is too bland, Davion is too Mary-Sue-ish. Out of Steiner, Liao (which I occasionally played in the boardgame as well) and Kurita, my interest in Japan as a country probably moved me towards Kurita.
Although I have to say that actual, somewhat in depth knowledge of Japanese culture and history is more of a hindrance in swallowing BattleTech's crass, ignorant caricatures - but that's probably the same for all the houses. (More of a 3025 fan, so FRR wasn't really on my radar.)
In MWO, there is the added factor of wanting to play a faction that borders the Clans.

#11 Stoneblade

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 04:41 AM

View PostCmdr Hurrell, on 03 June 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

So you decide to be a "space comunist". Careful with stereotypes dude, they tend to be a double-edged weapon.


I fully understand that, which was why I used them. Please, add to why you choose Clan Wolf? If you are a loyalist.

View PostAssault One, on 03 June 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:


FRR:
Good: SPACE VIKINGS!
Bad: Not too much time spent as an independent nation, nearly gets obliterated by Clans early on




FRR Does have the "Space Vikings" on the surface, they needed a way to find a National Identity after the War of 3039 where Comstar set up the nation to be the cushion for the Clan invasion. But the "Space Norse" would be a better description as Norse would "Go a viking" or become pirates to raid places.


edit: Correct faction for first quote (original was Kurita which was wrong)

Edited by Stoneblade, 04 June 2015 - 04:53 AM.


#12 Capp

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 06:26 AM

View PostKoshirou, on 04 June 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

Although I have to say that actual, somewhat in depth knowledge of Japanese culture and history is more of a hindrance in swallowing BattleTech's crass, ignorant caricatures - but that's probably the same for all the houses.


Well, think about it... the Combine is a re-creation of something that was centuries gone at the time. Chances are the (in-universe) guy who formed the Combine that way probably got half his knowledge of the original era from fictional accounts. (Unless he was an expert historian or something... I'm not that up on the lore.)

#13 Koshirou

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 07:03 AM

View PostCapp, on 04 June 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

Well, think about it... the Combine is a re-creation of something that was centuries gone at the time. Chances are the (in-universe) guy who formed the Combine that way probably got half his knowledge of the original era from fictional accounts. (Unless he was an expert historian or something... I'm not that up on the lore.)

I've had this kind of explanation before, but I consider the concept of "oh, it's a ridiculous caricature in-universe, too" to be nothing more than an excuse.
In the case of the DC, it is especially glaring that its presentation is not a result of extrapolating a fictional culture from one really big fan of feudal Japan, but of the author simply copying a distorted picture of WW2-era (and definitely not so feudal) Japan from whatever American books on the subject he used as a resource - to the point where some passages where directly copy/pasted (well in 1985 probably not really, but you get what I mean...) from books I know and where he forgot to replace "Emperor" with "Coordinator" in at least one place...

But: The "in-universe" excuse does work if you approach it from a different angle - that the original housebook was an in-universe source written by an allegedly neutral, but actually less than sympathetic (and probably also less well-informed than they claimed) outsider, namely a Comstar official.

P.S.: The recent HB:HK made some changes to mellow out some of the more extreme aspects, but it has mostly repeated the older stuff and introduced its own problems - such as the above

#14 Pereset

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 08:33 AM

Okay...long post warning.

I took Davion, and have stuck with it for a few reasons.
  • I first started playing MWO in 2011 and Davion took me in.
  • I've come to know HHOD and the rest of Davion over the years, and tend to stick with people I know and respect.
  • Part of my cultural and genetic (real) heritage is to stick with my decisions

I was never really into the lore, but had played the tabletop game when I was in the Navy, back in the mid-80's/early 90s. I wanted to be a Kurita. (My reason at the time was because my mother is from a real-life samurai family. I even said so on my application, and was promptly turned down.)

A few months later, a small, insignificant unit of 5 people invited me in.

The Davion Royal House Guards consisted of Mr. Everything, Sir Ludwig, Knolan, Lofty Jesse and TTRLabs. The fact that DRHG was being run by a real-life former U.S. Army military Special Unit member was appealing to me, since I was a retired U.S. Navy sailor myself. Playing the role of a Davion conscript, I worked my way up the ranks within what was becoming an elite unit. I even made up a personal roleplay bio to reflect the persona I had come up with, since playing MWO. (If you are unable to access it, you have my most profound apologies.)

2013 was the time when DRHG changed, along with Davion.

Dalamaar was one of our first really good players to join the unit. Later, tactical experts like Mordale came in, with Jaz, Skeev, Batman2213 and a whole host of really cool people (who are so cool, that to include all of their names in this post would make it longer than it is goingto be) were dedicated to the unit. We had a good thing going in those days, and our leadership finally came to a fork in the road, giving birth to the Preatorian Legion, what was becoming a top mercenary group.

Players like Sir Ludwig made the game interesting for me as well.

He is a real-life businessman, playing a game in his spare time, and I found another person to respect. Loyalty for me, is based on respect. I really did not follow the game, and many times could care less. But, I found new friends in a make-believe world that I could talk to, while I was blowing things up. Those people have gone their ways, but the unit that I started with is still here in the game. I worked my way up the ladder, watched the unit's tanks swell to almost 100 people, then implode under its own microcosm of politics.

So, very much like the lore, I watched the unit lose its star players.

Our original leader moved on to another online RPG, but I am hanging around, simply because I am curious to see how the unit does. Today, the original caretakers of the unit consist of CyberBonBon, who is the unit commander, Lancefer is the X.O. and Bsox make up the last of the oldest players in the unit. The unit members in it, like Iceman486, Melphina, Quickstrike (another unit veteran) and the other cool people we have in the unit (Jacob Dorian Davion a.k.a. Cirrus Dragon - I can't go on, man...this post is going to be ridiculously long). I made myself a desk jockey Marshall, simply because my real life commitments are increasing, and I expect them to increase more, exponentially.

I'm hoping that we can get an influx of people back into the unit.

It is obvious that a majority of players in the game have switched to the clan mechs (as it was started by someone who switched from Davion to Clan). Tactically, clan mechs do very well when they are facing their opponents. Some are more nimble than others, but I am still clocking up some nice bonuses, when I play my Inner Sphere mechs.

Yet, through all the changes, I remain firmly Davion.

In the lore, Davion is SUPPOSED to get hold of clan tech. It was the one thing that kept Davion ahead of everyone else. It is evident that PGI however, will not allow that to happen. What will happen instead, is that everyone (Steiner, Laio, FRR, etc.) will share in the glory of these new weapons, rather than just one faction having access to clan tech for a period of time. (I'm sure that if PGI were to do this, that the ranks of Davion would probably swell a bit again, probably even attract players like the one who originally thought of this post to rejoin the faction again.) I am actually looking forward to upgrading my computer, though, so that I can eventually rejoin my commander in SC, for more adventures (if I ever get the free time).

Sorry about the long post.

Edited by Pereset, 06 June 2015 - 10:45 PM.


#15 Christopher Hamilton

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 03:25 PM

There is one answer to the entire loyalist thing for me.
i started playing MW 25 years ago. I still use the same Character Name.
My character started off as a Solaris 7 Mech jockey.
Solaris 7 is in Steiner Space. Its part of the "Warrior" Triology of books.
Its where the shady gladiators meet. Sweat, Blood, Cordite.
Solaris, Galatea and a few other Planets probably bring more loyalists to MW than anything else.

So... Yes, i am a loyalist for a House that considers "A Steiner Scout Lance" to be 12 Atlas Assault Mechs.

Hell Yeah.

Solaris, Home Sweet Home. Dont tread on it.

#16 Bubblewhip

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 06:17 PM

View PostKoshirou, on 04 June 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

Innere Sphere in general:
- I've written about this at length elsewhere. The Clans are a juvenile power fantasy for armchair fascists. And they are to an alarming degree populated by fans who talk about their "cause, battle rituals, chivalry, and language" without any sense of irony. Add to that that their flat, uninteresting, football team mascot type characteristics, and you have it.


I like how you use the word alarming as if this is something on the level we would find a news story about "Clan Radicals" like we were ISIS.

Let me be clear about this. The game and the fiction is exactly that, a fiction. But the community, the identity, culture, and the people you are with are very much real. The reason we do battle rituals, we have trials of combat, we use language like "aff" and "neg" is because it fosters a sense of identity and culture. It is what separates "us" from "them."

This is the same in any organization whether it be your church group, your sports team, a collage club, your country's citizenship, and political organizations like environmental/animal/gun/gay rights groups.

We are people who identify with the spirit of the clan way of life, and its underlying message of to be someone who is constantly challenged, valued on their merits, respects others with emotional spirit, value honesty, honor, and chivalry, as well as having a sense of tradition.

If it seems that we are speaking with little irony is because we value that culture and the people who feel the same way. Without it, there is no identity.

You should be able to make light hearted jokes about the culture, much like how you should be able to make jokes about your country and its people. But when it comes right down to it, you should be defensive about people who are non-ironically saying that your people and its country are stupid/blind/evil because that is a personal insult on YOU and what YOU believe in.

That is why I am asking this because I want to know if this sense of cultural identity exists in the IS.

Edited by Bubblewhip, 04 June 2015 - 06:25 PM.


#17 IraqiWalker

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 06:45 PM

I've been with HHoD since my earliest days in MWO, and their loyalty to Davion is one of the main reasons I stick with them. For me, I love the lore of the house. Their pride, their failings, and how skewed their perception of themselves is compared to how others see them. Also, They are the only house that managed to stick it to Comstar right and proper, more than once, and were the first one to start an effort to reunify the Inner Sphere (Fed Com).

For the record, from my perspective, Liao may be portrayed as the bad guy of the IS houses, but the real bad guy of the entire setting is Comstar. Also, while Davion is written a lot as a white knight, they have actual substance behind it, there is depth to them. There is evil, and good, and mistakes, and glories.

I'm not saying the other houses don't have it, but for me, it rang closer to home with Davion. (I would be with Kurita otherwise, since they are the only house with canonical Arab citizenry)

#18 Pereset

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 07:21 PM

View PostBubblewhip, on 04 June 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:


I like how you use the word alarming as if this is something on the level we would find a news story about "Clan Radicals" like we were ISIS.

Let me be clear about this. The game and the fiction is exactly that, a fiction. But the community, the identity, culture, and the people you are with are very much real. The reason we do battle rituals, we have trials of combat, we use language like "aff" and "neg" is because it fosters a sense of identity and culture. It is what separates "us" from "them."

This is the same in any organization whether it be your church group, your sports team, a collage club, your country's citizenship, and political organizations like environmental/animal/gun/gay rights groups.

We are people who identify with the spirit of the clan way of life, and its underlying message of to be someone who is constantly challenged, valued on their merits, respects others with emotional spirit, value honesty, honor, and chivalry, as well as having a sense of tradition.

If it seems that we are speaking with little irony is because we value that culture and the people who feel the same way. Without it, there is no identity.

You should be able to make light hearted jokes about the culture, much like how you should be able to make jokes about your country and its people. But when it comes right down to it, you should be defensive about people who are non-ironically saying that your people and its country are stupid/blind/evil because that is a personal insult on YOU and what YOU believe in.

That is why I am asking this because I want to know if this sense of cultural identity exists in the IS.


Hello Bubble,

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to throw in my two cents (for whatever it's worth).

The reason that many of the people I know, went to clans is about one of two things:
  • They want to win, and feel that a clan mech is the way to do it
  • They feel that they are serious players, and that all the really good players are deviating to clans
I'm not driven by the guidelines I listed above me. I spelled out why I stayed with Davion. In your initial post, you said that you moved from a Davion faction to a clan faction. Why did YOU do that? Be honest with us. WHY did you move factions?

For many of us who have been playing this game since Beta, the majority of MWO players switching factions now, are not what they were when we started.

Many IS players became Mercs, so that they could get all of the stuff that PGI has to offer. They could switch to clan, IS, or whatever they felt like, so that they could reap the benefits of points, xp, etc. Or, they feel they are not "winning" with IS, and want to go to what they perceive as a "winning" side, like the clans. (And yes, I realize that anyone can play any mech they want outside of CW).

Because you are asking this question, it is obvious that you are not loyal to anything. Your actions tell us that you are not. Why else would you have gone to a faction, where you can use what you perceive as a "more powerful" mech in something like CW?

You're using the word "we", in your post, like you are speaking for anyone who went to the clans. Anyone I've known or talked to who has gone over to clans, either wants to become a Seraphim, or feels that they will benefit more from being able to play a clan mech in CW. There is no loyalty, nothing but pure and simple greed. And...they are PROUD of that fact.

I hope that you have read the posts to your initial question. It really looked like you pissed some people off, because of the tone of your writing. It was as if you considered yourself superior to anyone IS, simply because they were loyal to that house. If I didn't know any better, I would say that you were trying to manipulate your post, to sound innocent, while it really wasn't.

#19 Fusea

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 07:29 PM

As a long time merc, it's annoying that everyone thinks we all go 'shits hit the fan, and away I go.' There are no good merc units that do that. Yes there are merc units that do engage in those antics, but they don't tend to last very long. Even funnier, there are House units that engage in those antics.

Let me explain that as a mercenary, if I take a contract somewhere, it's because I want to be there. It's the house militaries that get sent places they would rather not be.

Also, they didn't have a Magistracy of Canopus option. Highest rate of literacy in the Inner Sphere and we're in the periphery! Also one of the better economies... because of sex tourism. Not sure if it's a win, but its a thing!

#20 IraqiWalker

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 07:39 PM

View PostBubblewhip, on 04 June 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

That is why I am asking this because I want to know if this sense of cultural identity exists in the IS.


It does, in a great degree. Look at all the dialogue between the houses. I'm davion-centric here, so I'll focus on that. Look at all the stuff that was going on between Davion and Marik in CW1. That was a great love relationship if there ever was one. Most of us fondly remember Wazan, bloodiest battlefield of CW1 until Tukayyid. There was tension with Kurita, back and forth trash talk, hate, and even some bromancing.

Each house has it's own identity. I swear to God, whenever I hear "Space Bacon" all I can think of is "MARIK!". Each house has it's own community formed identity. Some have a harder time doing it, like Liao, simply because they have fewer players, but even they have a great community spirit. There is a sense of identity in every house, and clan. It's a matter of finding it.

View PostFusea, on 04 June 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

As a long time merc, it's annoying that everyone thinks we all go 'shits hit the fan, and away I go.' There are no good merc units that do that. Yes there are merc units that do engage in those antics, but they don't tend to last very long. Even funnier, there are House units that engage in those antics.

Let me explain that as a mercenary, if I take a contract somewhere, it's because I want to be there. It's the house militaries that get sent places they would rather not be.

Also, they didn't have a Magistracy of Canopus option. Highest rate of literacy in the Inner Sphere and we're in the periphery! Also one of the better economies... because of sex tourism. Not sure if it's a win, but its a thing!


I thought Liao had the highest literacy rate (90% if I'm not mistaken)





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