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Is There A Reason Why Maps Are So Small?


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#1 Darian DelFord

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 04:58 AM

I understand the first maps were small, they were learning the program and it was only 8V8, I really do not have an issue with the earlier maps however.

Is there a reason that the maps can not be made to be 4 to 5 times the size of Alpine, Tourmaline or Terra?

As in system issues memory issues anything?

When you have have mechs literally shoot each other at the start of the match there is a problem.

I believe that larger maps will diversify game play at least a little and hopefully break up the monotony of the center fights. Adjust this and the way radar works and we might actually have better matches?

Thoughts?

#2 SpiralFace

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:06 AM

multiple issues with that:

- There would be HUGE downtime between where your mechs spawn, and where you fight. Thats a lot of waiting if the end result is you running into a much better player and getting stomped within a minute of the first engagement.
- Assaults would be terrible to play. Ask any Direwolf that spawns the far side of alpine. You can go the entire game waiting to get into the action and have all the other players finish off the opposing team before you even touch them.
- Light mechs would be a nightmare to root out. You think a 1v12 skirmish where the light is content to run and hide is annoying now, if the maps where 5 times bigger, this would be a nightmare.
- It wouldn't change anything. Just look at Alpine itself. For all of its size, the map only revolves around a single terrain feature, EVER. Changing the map size means NOTHING unless there was some physical game play reason to spread your force out as opposed to just camping the best spot on the map.

#3 Zeusus

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:06 AM

We have small maps because people claim alpine is walking simulator as they think mechs shouldn't move faster than 40kph.

I'd love bigger maps but there are too many in the community who wants pure pew pew and zero tactics.

#4 Darian DelFord

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:10 AM

View PostZeusus, on 05 June 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

We have small maps because people claim alpine is walking simulator as they think mechs shouldn't move faster than 40kph.

I'd love bigger maps but there are too many in the community who wants pure pew pew and zero tactics.



3 Words for that


THINKING MAN"S SHOOTER

#5 Myfriendscallmecoach

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:16 AM

View PostSpiralFace, on 05 June 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

multiple issues with that:

- There would be HUGE downtime between where your mechs spawn, and where you fight. Thats a lot of waiting if the end result is you running into a much better player and getting stomped within a minute of the first engagement.
- Assaults would be terrible to play. Ask any Direwolf that spawns the far side of alpine. You can go the entire game waiting to get into the action and have all the other players finish off the opposing team before you even touch them.
- Light mechs would be a nightmare to root out. You think a 1v12 skirmish where the light is content to run and hide is annoying now, if the maps where 5 times bigger, this would be a nightmare.
- It wouldn't change anything. Just look at Alpine itself. For all of its size, the map only revolves around a single terrain feature, EVER. Changing the map size means NOTHING unless there was some physical game play reason to spread your force out as opposed to just camping the best spot on the map.

I have a feeling that all of those issues could be solved if given the proper focus of the devs. But thats probably wishing too much.

#6 LordBraxton

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:28 AM

Maps were designed for 8v8. 12v12, + poor design + massive power creep, = The MWO we know and love, where you spend 10 minutes waiting for a 6 minute *********** of a match.

#7 Darian DelFord

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:55 AM

View PostSpiralFace, on 05 June 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

multiple issues with that:

- There would be HUGE downtime between where your mechs spawn, and where you fight. Thats a lot of waiting if the end result is you running into a much better player and getting stomped within a minute of the first engagement.
- Assaults would be terrible to play. Ask any Direwolf that spawns the far side of alpine. You can go the entire game waiting to get into the action and have all the other players finish off the opposing team before you even touch them.
- Light mechs would be a nightmare to root out. You think a 1v12 skirmish where the light is content to run and hide is annoying now, if the maps where 5 times bigger, this would be a nightmare.
- It wouldn't change anything. Just look at Alpine itself. For all of its size, the map only revolves around a single terrain feature, EVER. Changing the map size means NOTHING unless there was some physical game play reason to spread your force out as opposed to just camping the best spot on the map.



Yeah not so much. Random Spawn Locations could really come into play here for maps as large as I am thinking. Not the same 3 drop sites for every match. All we have now is deathball vs deathball, that's what this game has turned into. Personally I would not mind much more variety. Different objectives that have to be completed or something. Anything

Well I keep hearing "Lights should suck, this is a game of Big Stompy Robots" Well put your money where your mouth is. You want to play a Big Stompy Robot, then Play one. But don't come crying just because an ankle biter is harrassing you. Put with the mobility of Heavies and assaults it should not be a problem for ya. The Heavier chssiss can twist almost as quick as a light. The problem with Alpine is that's just where folks go because its the centerish of the map. I have fought in other areas of the map and its great.

The problem is people do not want to Play Mechwarrior. They want to play Robot CoD. That is the mentality of today's generation.

The fact of the matter is the maps are to small for 12v12. When you can spot the enemy team within the first 30 seconds of the match starting there is a problem.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 05 June 2015 - 05:57 AM.


#8 Sarlic

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:07 AM

Eh.. you should know right? If you partipicated in Beta.

4vs4 maps were much smaller.
8vs8 maps got adjusted (made them a bit larger, some not)
12vs12 put in the same map was 8vs8.

Basically we were still playing 12vs12 on a map suited for 8vs8.

#9 Darian DelFord

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:16 AM

View PostSarlic, on 05 June 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

Eh.. you should know right? If you partipicated in Beta.

4vs4 maps were much smaller.
8vs8 maps got adjusted (made them a bit larger, some not)
12vs12 put in the same map was 8vs8.

Basically we were still playing 12vs12 on a map suited for 8vs8.



Yup

But even the bigger maps are to small for 12v12

#10 Midax

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:18 AM

Large maps is what CW needs. CW should have multiple objectives that force teams to spread out and prevent a death ball from just walking to one small area to win match. Larger maps would give light and fast mediums a reason to scout to direct the assaults to the hottest objectives. It would be nice to se mech bays on large maps that team can fallback to rearm and do minor repairs and serve as forward spawn points as they are taken.

Plenty of other games have objective based game play that change dynamically as a team take objectives. I also don't see why MWO has to follow the old CS method of one spawn per match instead of following a Battlefield approach based on respawn tickets. Tickets give the opportunity to balance mechs by having some mechs cost more to spawn.

#11 I C Wiener

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:25 AM

I think Alpine is about the right size for 12vs12, the thing is, it's just not that good as a map for several reasons (few choke points, way to much open field, not enough cover, no real opportunities to brawl etc.). That's the reason why people hate the map and why they think that it's too big.

I'd say, make maps the size of Alpine with more possibilites to engage and generally more diverse approaches to get into combat. Tourmaline Desert is a good example IMO. Or maybe think Alpine with thick forests and a bigger city in the middle.

#12 rolly

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:31 AM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 05 June 2015 - 05:10 AM, said:



3 Words for that


THINKING MAN"S SHOOTER


But but... thinking and walking is HARD.

Edited by rolly, 05 June 2015 - 06:31 AM.


#13 Mystere

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:31 AM

We do not have many large maps because some people who only bring big, fat, and slow-as-molasses behemoths of death will start another loud QQ campaign on the forums. There is a very good reason why we cannot have very nice things. The first response to your OP is proof of that.

As for Alpine, I find it to be a great map. But, the problem can be traced back to the source of 50% of all problems facing MWO. 99% of the player base act as if they're nothing but mindless zombies, with Derp Mountain as a giant human brain calling them forth.

Edited by Mystere, 05 June 2015 - 06:40 AM.


#14 STEF_

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:43 AM

Because pgi/russ wants a esport pewpew robotto shooter.

And so they don't care about strategy, and whatsoever related to combat simulation.

In tiny maps you can drop, pew pew in 2 minutes, and repeat.

gg close

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 05 June 2015 - 06:44 AM.


#15 Revis Volek

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 07:22 AM

View PostSarlic, on 05 June 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

Eh.. you should know right? If you partipicated in Beta.

4vs4 maps were much smaller.
8vs8 maps got adjusted (made them a bit larger, some not)
12vs12 put in the same map was 8vs8.

Basically we were still playing 12vs12 on a map suited for 8vs8.



This is why, Bur RIver City is already being redone and should be out soon.
8v8 maps dont play well with 24 mechs.

#16 Nightmare1

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 07:24 AM

I actually like having maps of various sizes. It makes things more interesting!

#17 Last Of The Brunnen-G

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 07:56 AM

How about random created maps? Technicaly no problem. So you could start matches or enter matches with different sizes, vegetation, hills, water...

#18 Zeusus

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 08:40 AM

The problem with random is they will never be balanced, sometimes buggy, and that's a lot of processing/data going around. Doesn't work well in this scenario. Some people have data caps and transferring 50+MB per map per game will add up fast.

The only practical way we'd have random maps is if PGI generated ome and then tweaked it, but that's not what you mean.

#19 x Marder x

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 09:03 AM

The maps are not to small the mechs are way to big, PGI should scale the mechs right.

#20 Chuck Jager

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 09:13 AM

If we could have a better separation of skill levels bigger maps may work. Right now one or two folks getting separated or sniping means instant loss. I made this mistake when I was newer and now I am like a shark against a bleeding diver when I see it.

I do not mean lets make it easy for all, but more like lets not keep throwing new players in a std engine firestarters against fully leveled mechs.

Honestly if folks can not handle being an effective deathball, a bigger map will make this worse not better.





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