20 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

M.A.S.C. is very good on acceleration, but the top speed increase is "noticeable" at the very best, especially for how quickly the bar fills. In current form; I think MASC will be used on Omni mechs since they have no choice but to have it, but if it becomes available to battlemechs, I think it will be mounted seldom if at all.

Here are my thoughts:
Increase the MASC top speed boost to 30%
OR
Decrease the rate of "filling" the bar by 30%. (Though I would rather get the speed burst)
OR
Decrease the fill rate by 15% and increase the top speed to +20%


Thoughts

[Fate 6]

Have the bar drain way faster. Right now it's only useful for poking

[Alistair Winter]

Yeah, I think it needs a little lift. If I could unequip it on my Shadow Cats, I would probably do that on all 4 variants. It's ok, but it's not really needed. To be honest, I'd rather have the 2 tons for extra ammo or firepower, but if we're stuck with the MASC, I'd say it needs a boost.

I understand that they don't want to break the game when light mechs with 150 kph max speed get MASC on top of that, but I think that's a pretty weak argument as to why our current medium mech shouldn't be allowed to push 130 kph with Masc.

As a minor note... I'm not thrilled with the sound effect either. I get that it's intuitive because people have heard that kind of sound before and associate it with stress on the engine. But in terms of immersion, that sound effectively takes me out of Battletech and back into Need For Speed: Underground.

[Livewyr]

Alistair Winter, on 22 July 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

I understand that they don't want to break the game when light mechs with 150 kph max speed get MASC on top of that, but I think that's a pretty weak argument as to why our current medium mech shouldn't be allowed to push 130 kph with Masc.

Well, it would break lore- but they could try a scaled MASC system in order to give it real benefits:

Light MASC: 25% Top speed
Medium MASC: 30% Top speed
Heavy MASC: 35% Top speed
Assault MASC: 40% Top speed


(or something like that)

[DONTOR]

increase speed boost to 20% across the board increase cool down 100%

7 seconds of use for a 30 second cool down? COME ON!

[Joseph Mallan]

Livewyr, on 22 July 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

Well, it would break lore- but they could try a scaled MASC system in order to give it real benefits:

Light MASC: 25% Top speed
Medium MASC: 30% Top speed
Heavy MASC: 35% Top speed
Assault MASC: 40% Top speed


(or something like that)

It just seems strange to expect this to work... backwards. The smaller and faster you are the less boost you get. Doesn't seem fair to me.

[Lexx]

Maybe if they removed the acceleration and deceleration boost, and just had it increase the mech's top speed.

The reason it only gives a small boost to top speed is because it would be too OP if it gave more and also let you peek and poke so much faster.

If it gave a 30% boost to top speed it would really limit it's use on light and even some medium mechs in the future, since the game engine can't handle anything going over 170 KPH.

[Zeriniel]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

It just seems strange to expect this to work... backwards. The smaller and faster you are the less boost you get. Doesn't seem fair to me.

But imagine the Flea (with Locust top speed) going 214 kph!

Edited by Zeriniel, 22 July 2015 - 09:44 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zeriniel, on 22 July 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

But imagine the Flea (with Locust top speed) going 212 kph!

now Imagine it with a Super Charger on top of MASC! Been there designed it!

Fire Moth
The Fire Moth is a light Clan OmniMech intended for scouting and infantry support/transport, and is often deployed by Clan Ghost Bear. With a running speed of 162.0 km/h, accelerating up to 216.0 km/h with the MASC system installed on the 'Mech's chassis, the Fire Moth is easily one of the fastest designs ever created, the reason the Inner Sphere gave it the codename of Dasher.[3][5][6]Give it a Super Charger and watch it hit warp speed!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 July 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[lshtaria]

I think MASC on the Exe is really well done but I think PGI were a little concerned it may be OP on lighter mechs. However, despite the lower tonnage requirement for the SCat, I think it's a bit underwhelming.

I don't think any great overhaul is necessary, just give all iterations of MASC the same benefits as what you get with the Exe and also make it cool off a bit faster.

[Lexx]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

now Imagine it with a Super Charger on top of MASC! Been there designed it!

Fire Moth
The Fire Moth is a light Clan OmniMech intended for scouting and infantry support/transport, and is often deployed by Clan Ghost Bear. With a running speed of 162.0 km/h, accelerating up to 216.0 km/h with the MASC system installed on the 'Mech's chassis, the Fire Moth is easily one of the fastest designs ever created, the reason the Inner Sphere gave it the codename of Dasher.[3][5][6]Give it a Super Charger and watch it hit warp speed!

According to PGI, Cryengine can't deal well with mechs moving at over 170KPH. Mechs going over 200KPH with MASC just isn't going to happen.

Even 150KPH already wreaks havoc with hit detection in MWO, as we all learned when the Spider first came out.

[Kassatsu]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

now Imagine it with a Super Charger on top of MASC! Been there designed it!

Fire Moth
The Fire Moth is a light Clan OmniMech intended for scouting and infantry support/transport, and is often deployed by Clan Ghost Bear. With a running speed of 162.0 km/h, accelerating up to 216.0 km/h with the MASC system installed on the 'Mech's chassis, the Fire Moth is easily one of the fastest designs ever created, the reason the Inner Sphere gave it the codename of Dasher.[3][5][6]Give it a Super Charger and watch it hit warp speed!

Ever max out the engine on one in MW2, stick a bunch of jump jets on and then "forget" you're supposed to put weapons in and wind up with just 2 small lasers?

[LordMelvin]

One thing to keep in mind is that MASC also gives a pretty sizeable agility boost when activated. I was playing around in the stock SHC-prime, overextended a bit and got caught in a killbox. I toggled MASC on and punched it into reverse. In a totally fresh SHC (no skills) I stopped on a dime, spun on my heel, and slalomed between buildings until I got back to the safety of my team. Any other medium I would have been dead before I finished reversing. That's not something to be sniffed at.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lexx, on 22 July 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

According to PGI, Cryengine can't deal well with mechs moving at over 170KPH. Mechs going over 200KPH with MASC just isn't going to happen.

Even 150KPH already wreaks havoc with hit detection in MWO, as we all learned when the Spider first came out.

Yeah... I know. So My friend's Ice Hellion (totem Omni) with a speed of 12/18 (24 MASC/30 MASC + SC)324KpH is right out of the picture!

Kassatsu, on 22 July 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Ever max out the engine on one in MW2, stick a bunch of jump jets on and then "forget" you're supposed to put weapons in and wind up with just 2 small lasers?

No. I'm not a Jumper.


For the record this guy took the Omni to new heights with a Variant for every letter A-N
Type/Model: Blizzard M
Mass: 25 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 43 pts Endo Steel 7 1.50
(Endo Steel Loc: )
Engine: 300 XXL Fusion 14 6.50
Engine Supercharger: (LT) 1 1.00
Walking MP: 12
Running MP: 18 [24-30]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Small Cockpit, Life Supt.: 4 2.00
MASC: 1 1.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 89 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 5.00
(Armor Crit Loc: )

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 8 14
Center Torso (Rear): 2
L/R Side Torso: 6 10/10
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 4 8/8
L/R Leg: 6 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER Large Laser CT 12 1 4.00
1 Targeting Computer CT 1 1.00
--------------------------------------------------------

Piranha Pftt!
Type/Model: Blizzard N
Mass: 25 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 43 pts Endo Steel 7 1.50
(Endo Steel Loc: )
Engine: 300 XXL Fusion 14 6.50
Engine Supercharger: (LT) 1 1.00
Walking MP: 12
Running MP: 18 [24-30]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Small Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 4 2.00
MASC: 1 1.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 89 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 5.00
(Armor Crit Loc: )

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 8 14
Center Torso (Rear): 2
L/R Side Torso: 6 10/10
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 4 8/8
L/R Leg: 6 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
4 Light Machine Guns RA 0 200 5 2.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
4 Light Machine Guns LA 0 4 1.00
3 Light Machine Guns RT 0 3 .75
3 Light Machine Guns LT 0 3 .75
1 Light Machine Gun CT 0 1 .25
1 Light Machine Gun HD 0 1 .25
--------------------------------------------------------

16 Light MGs gives new meaning to a "hail" of bullets!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 July 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

Yeah... I know. So My friend's Ice Hellion (totem Omni) with a speed of 12/18 (24 MASC/30 MASC + SC)324KpH is right out of the picture!


No. I'm not a Jumper.


For the record this guy took the Omni to new heights with a Variant for every letter A-N
Type/Model: Blizzard M
Mass: 25 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 43 pts Endo Steel 7 1.50
(Endo Steel Loc: )
Engine: 300 XXL Fusion 14 6.50
Engine Supercharger: (LT) 1 1.00
Walking MP: 12
Running MP: 18 [24-30]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Small Cockpit, Life Supt.: 4 2.00
MASC: 1 1.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 89 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 5.00
(Armor Crit Loc: )

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 8 14
Center Torso (Rear): 2
L/R Side Torso: 6 10/10
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 4 8/8
L/R Leg: 6 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER Large Laser CT 12 1 4.00
1 Targeting Computer CT 1 1.00
--------------------------------------------------------

Piranha Pftt!
Type/Model: Blizzard N
Mass: 25 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 43 pts Endo Steel 7 1.50
(Endo Steel Loc: )
Engine: 300 XXL Fusion 14 6.50
Engine Supercharger: (LT) 1 1.00
Walking MP: 12
Running MP: 18 [24-30]
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Small Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 4 2.00
MASC: 1 1.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 89 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 5.00
(Armor Crit Loc: )

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 8 14
Center Torso (Rear): 2
L/R Side Torso: 6 10/10
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 4 8/8
L/R Leg: 6 12/12

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
4 Light Machine Guns RA 0 200 5 2.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
4 Light Machine Guns LA 0 4 1.00
3 Light Machine Guns RT 0 3 .75
3 Light Machine Guns LT 0 3 .75
1 Light Machine Gun CT 0 1 .25
1 Light Machine Gun HD 0 1 .25
--------------------------------------------------------

16 Light MGs gives new meaning to a "hail" of bullets!

I want a Piranha so bad!

[Joseph Mallan]

DarthRevis, on 22 July 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

I want a Piranha so bad!

I know. There was a guy who RULED a 10K BV Tournament using only 10 Piranha! 2 years in a row!

[Top Leliel]

I agree with what's being said in this thread, having tried out the Shadow Cat yesterday.

While it would be gamebreaking for the Flea or Firemoth to have full MASC bonus, the Shadow Cat's MASC bonus in the lore would not break the game. It would simply allow it to move as fast as a small medium with a lighter payload(Ice Ferret or Cicada) in short bursts.

Right now, all the MASC on the Shadow Cat really does is let it instantly accelerate/keep momentum/change direction. It is agile rather than fast. It isn't terrible, even good in lots of situations, but is definitely underwhelming.

I would suggest either removing most of the acceleration boost from MASC Mk II and making it a bigger speed boost, or decreasing the cooldown so the acceleration boost can be used more often.

[Paigan]

The nice thing about MASC is the agility boost, not necessarily the speed boost.
Also they reduced the speed boost intentionally to avoid getting too high max speeds (engine problems, lag, etc.).
I'm using it since the EXE came out and I think it's fine.
A little tweaking maybe, but no big speed boost

[Livewyr]

Considering that it takes 2 tons (which is the difference in most Shadowcat builds that are not just laser trolls) it should be worth 2 tons.

Currently, it is not worth 2 tons, it's only useful while playing peek-a-boo.

[Matthew Ace]

I have never used MASC before, so am unsure if my opinions are worth anything.

The initial stats seems like a good conservative start for an implementation, but overall, I think it is safe to push the top speed and maybe slightly longer duration (and hence longer safe duration) for MASC II to MASC IV for clans. I can't say anything about IS MASC without MASC-capable IS mechs being in the picture yet.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 28 July 2015 - 03:20 PM.